For many people, perhaps almost all, infidelity has little to do with how the WS feels about the marriage, and lots to do with how the WS feels about himself. Many, many WS's, especially those who leave suddenly after long term marriages, are suffering from depression, are bipolar, etc. There is absolutely nothing that the BS can do or could have done to prevent that. You can't fix it by "meeting their needs," or POJA, or tough love, or anything else. <P>Sometimes I feel like it is the equivalent of being on a board for spouses of people with cancer, and having the discussion center around vitamin therapy. Meeting needs is good for relationships, just as vitamins are good for you, but neither one will have any effect on serious organic illnesses.

Dear Nellie,<P>I would agree that the focus is usually on the character or lack of self control of WS. This topic has been expounded a no. of times and I was afraid the last time I thought I offended SKM when I said that it is a character or lack of self control thingy - the article was chicken before egg or egg before chicken thing.<P>My mother was WS, my H's father was WS and WS and continued to keep two women throughout his life - I never met him before as he passed on rather early in life. <P>I think it is necessary to arm the young ones with marital skills as well as the pain of infidelity, abuse, etc.. before they get married. However it is often so difficult to predict human fallacies and even when life skills in marriage are taught, they more often than not fall on deaf ears. <P>The reason that I took education so seriously was mainly to be able to provide well for my family should my H ever become WS because no one can predict the actions of another. Leaving everything in another person's hands is a very scary concept as far as a woman is concerned, esp, if she has to leave her career behind to nurture a family. I have chosen to leave my life in God's hands - it is safer and more joyful.<P>And how is life right now? I haven't heard much about what is happening with you.<P>God bless you<BR>take care<BR>from weep.

Nellie<P>You are right about depression. I am beginning to believe that my h has been depressed for many years and really did not know it. I read a pamphlet on it in our Dr.'s office about depression putting a wedge between you and your normal life, between you and your loved ones until you have no life(or desire) to do anything. You lose all interest in everything. This is where the A trap comes in.<P>You meet someone , unexpectedly, that flirts and makes you feel you are a God, and you are swept off your feet in a rush that you have not felt in years. You immediately become adddicted to the whole thing, until it REALLY destroys your life.<P>But I think the A is merely a twig on the tree, the root is in depression or codependence or bi-polarness. That is where medication, a psychiatrist, and group therapy come in. But the WS must be willing to look into the ROOT of it. It is scary--and it takes a great deal of courage. <P>My H is just getting there, and he is so scared and so depressed!!! It is scary. But he finally started meds this week. Yea! But he still has not given up his security blanket(OW.) Though they have not had a PA since Oct--I set a boundry there. But the EA continues with a vengence. She must be daft!! I would not wait for someone whose marriage I was able to break up!<P>B<P>

weep,<P>Unfortunately, I never questioned my H's faithfulness. I was completely unprepared. I have known only a few people who divorced, and only a very few people whose spouses, as far as I knew, had affairs. <P>My H's divorce from me will be final in a couple of weeks. He still does not have a job, and is out of unemployment. The kids and I are sinking deeper into poverty. I kick myself frequently for having given up a good job and having put my career in reverse to go with my H so he could go into business for himself. I now know that you should never give up anything for your spouse, because the spouse who is most committed is likely the one who will get the short end of the stick.<P>burnedspouse,<P>Shortly before the affair, I said something to my H about how it seemed as if he had lost interest in everything he used to enjoy - and he admitted that he had. But I doubt if he will ever admit that he is clinically depressed. <P>

This has been intersting and informative for me. deep down i feel our problems are nuch more serious than the A.<P>H is a Vietnam Veteran. This is a second marriage for both of us and we have been together for 25 years. Recently I learned that his forst wife left him because she could no longer live with his "black" moods. I experienced the difficulty of the mood swings but (probably unwisely) after trying to talk and share his pain with him, I started to "respect' his wish at times to be alone with his thoughts - he always said this was what he wanted. Int 2-3 months before the A began he was deeply depressed. It seems to me he found a younger, bright, energetic woman who made him "forget" his despondency - and now he is facing the reality that someone else cannot solve his problems for him. but he will NOT seek counselling or medication.<P>I fear that even if we did get together again, the deep deep depression will eventually overwhelm us. I love him dearly and want to help and support him. But I think that , first, he has to learn to help himself. How can I help. Are there any good web sites i can refer to re bi-polar depression?<P>Thankyou <BR>R

Dear Nellie<P>Are you able to get work again? Do you have to look after the children full-time? Is there a way you can work from home? The labour market is tight now and it is relatively easy to find work nowadays.<P>I am very sad to hear that you are living in difficulty. I worry about your children. I intend to go back to work when my child is older so that I can be independant again, and save for retirement as well. <P>Please seek help from agencies so that you and your children do not stay at the poverty line.<P>God bless and help you<BR>love from weep

Hi Nellie,<P>I agree with you 100%. And, I can certainly empathize with you because my H suffers from an organic mood disorder (I suspect borderline personality disorder), in addition to depression and post traumatic stress. These are very serious illnesses. And you hit the target with your analogy, "trying to meet their emotional needs is like trying to treat cancer with vitamins".<P>What has happened to you Nellie is not fair. It's not fair to your kids. I can feel your pain and I know that you are devastated. But, the fact remains that you HAVE to go on for you and for your kids. I don't want to come across as harsh, Nellie, but I sense that you are caving in and feeling hopeless. Please don't!! Don't get caught up in dwelling on the fairness of the situation. It's not fair and never will be, but it is the situation you are currently in, nonetheless . You must deal with it. You can do nothing about the past, just as you can do nothing about your H's mental illness, but you CAN do something for you and for your kids. Show them your strength, show them that you can provide for them both emotionally and financially. Granted, they may not have as many material things but you will more than make up for that with your love for them.<P>Please reach out to any and all available resources and come up with a plan to be able to provide for your kids. I know you can do it! You come across as a very bright individual. And, a very loving one. God will provide for you Nellie, but you must meet him half way. There are many, many caring individuals out there who will be happy to help you through these tough times. But, you must take the first step.<P>You must reach out for help.<P>

My now XH started prozac 3 months after he came home to us after the first affair. He was a new man after the med kicked in. I started seeing a change again about 6 mos after the med was started. I suggested maybe he should consult the dr about increasing the med but he became angry about it. It was very shortly after that he met OW2. He is still with her and we are just newly divorced. He lost everything his family his business everything he worked so hard for. I believe he has a mental disorder and with the right med and therapy he would again be happy. He is still on the prozac but says he is miserable. He feels terrible for what he has done to our family but doesn't know how to fix it now. He is still with OW and I think he deeply loves me but is still very addicted to the new high feeling he still has with OW. Until he gets help I think this will be a forever pattern with him. I think he is addicted to the high he gets and when that is over so will be the relationships.<P>Jill

Rosebrook,<P>I wish I had known more about clinical depression a long time ago, not that it is likely he would have sought help for it then, either. I did try to get him to go see a doctor right around the time the affair began. He went, but all he discussed were allergies and other physical problems. <P>I would like to find more good sites on depression as well. I did find one site that was interesting: <A HREF="http://www.midlife-passages.com/depressi.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.midlife-passages.com/depressi.htm</A> <P>weep,<P>I am working half-time, and a pretty well paying job, but it is not enough. I have not yet found a full-time job with comparable pay - and it is probably not going to be worth it to me to earn only half again as much for twice the hours, unless the job is located somewhere where housing is cheaper. I can't get a second part-time job, because then I would have to pay close to several hundred dollars a month for private health insurance, which would defeat the purpose of having a second job.<P>I'm getting energy assistance, health insurance; the kids get free school lunches. <P>sidney,<P>I am not sure that it is possible to provide for the kids financially. It is becoming increasingly clear that I would be better off financially, though not necessarily emotionally, if I were to quit my job, move to a far cheaper area of the state where I could rent for half of what I am now paying in mortgage, and get a job flipping burgers because there are few professional positions there.<P>crazy or what,<P>I think the relationship between depression and affairs is far too often overlooked or trivialized. <P>Unfortunately, I don't think my H can financially afford to have his relationship with the OW end, especially since he is unemployed. Our financial stress triggered his depression, and he apparently associates me with it - he told me that he could not separate his feelings about me from his feelings about our financial situation. Apparently he thought I should have gone back to work when our youngest was a toddler, though maybe he didn't decide that until after the OW told him that. He certainly never mentioned it - and, silly me, I thought that his saying that he didn't like having our kids in daycare indicated otherwise.

I read the depression web site. I was displeased with their dicription of male depression. My H shows all the signs of female depression only. His feeling of worthlessness made him vulnerable to an affair.<P>The financial thing is also on my plate. We are not struggling directly, but I have to deposit a heafty sum each month to make things even. My stocks from childhood are dwindling though, I do not have a job. <P>My H has always been aware that he does not make enough money anymore to make ends meet, and he will not ask for a decent raise for fear of termination. I do not know how realistic that was in the past. Though his work is suffering now! <P>I wish he could get it together. I have always been scared that our future has not been provided for yet after 16 years of marriage, and that now we cannot make monthly ends meet! I know I neeed to get a job, but will it be enough? I need to make enough to pay the whole mortgage, I think. That would do it, but wow! I am not trained for much and have not worked for 14 years.<P>I too, am in a pickle. But not as bad as you, Nellie, my heart goes out to you, and my fears for myself from your example.

Nellie, <P>I agree with you. My H (37 yo) is also suffering from depression and there are many issues he is dealing with - low self esteem, don't trust to himself, inability to deal with emotions, immature behaviour, need for constant undevided attention .... <P>Financial issues and the fact that we have to work hard look for second jobs to provide our family, that we cannot afford many things that would be normal people of our age and position (job) could afford also affected him, and he mentioned it as one of problems talking to the psychiatrist. Seemed to me that depression was somehow his force field he raised to defend himself of the everyday problems and responsibilities, form the entire outside world. Once he even told me OW was not the cause but the consequence of his problems. Of course, that didn't solve the problem, or move OW from the picutre, but gave me some strenght and ability to view the whole matter from the other prespective. <P>I agree with your analogy, cancer can't be treated with vitamins, but, from my experience, I believe vitamins are essential to keep ill organism fit enough to fight the main illness. I mean, being here for him, doing my plan A the best I could, seems I eventually made him lurk into real world. Hopefully, my efforts will pay off.<P>But, what he has to deal with cannot be done only with my help. he needs professional help. He has already attempted suicide (as he told me because of OW). She was playing with him - when he wanted to be with her, she withdrew, when he decided to committ to his family again, she then wanted him ... when he said he can't live that way, she said go to your wife, but when he ended up in hospital, she came and asked him do you want me to leave or be with you, now I want you. Devious one! BTW, she already ruined two marriages by now, ours is the third one. Oh, sorry for rambling, whenever I think of it, I'm ready to kill her!<P>What I wanted to say, I can't help much more but to be here and support him the best I know, I believe this is all any of us could do dealing with depressed person. He is on Prozac now, is looking and feeling better, but I think it will take a long time to deal with all those issues. I see some light in tunnel, but far from real recovery. <P>God bless, <P>Adrian <p>[This message has been edited by Adrian (edited December 24, 2000).]

burnedspouse,<P>My H showed more of the signs of male depression, at least outwardly. <P>Unfortunately, my entire salary goes to pay the mortgage, and the child support barely covers food. There is nothing left over to pay utilities, gasoline, etc., much less anything optional. <P>Adrian,<P>My H appears largely devoid of emotion, except for anger, most of the time. And much of the anger is directed at me. <P>