Hi All,<P>I'm pretty down. I knew I was going to struggle somewhat thru this Holiday stuff and I'm trying to just "sail" thru it. Trying to remember that this is only temporary but these thoughts of H and OW w/OCs togther with their happy warm house and Christmas tree and decor along with their cheery family feelings are really getting to me. <P>It hurts ALOT thinking of them together and my H not even giving a thought of me. I imagine H has blocked me out completely, he is so happy in his new "family" situation and with my in-laws now supporting the A, I just feel like I've been betrayed and discarded by many. Like I was the bad guy and a mistake. Feel like they all look at our marriage like it was the roadblock that kept him from being truly happy and caused his new family so much unnecessary pain for all those years we were married.<P>I mean, I know everyone says they will eventually have a very rocky time, but my mind is thinking of "right now" and right now they're so so happy. Feeling like they have finally conquered the "evil" wife that kept them all apart all these years. And I'm sure they're telling the OCs that I was a bad, mean wife to my H too. <P>How can my H just "move on" and forget me like this? How can he wash his hands of all responsibilty of the deep pain he's caused. How can he look at himself in the mirror and say to himself "I did the right thing" knowing he has hurt me more than I can express. <P>How can he smile and tell himself "I'm happy" when he's got the process server knocking at my door (as I type this) to serve me with D papers 2 days before Christmas? HOW?<P>I'm really skeptical of the belief that they will crash and burn ... what if I'm in the FOG and they are right? <P>Jo<P>------------------<BR>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited December 23, 2000).]

Dear {{{{{{Jo}}}}}}<P>You are a great person and I feel that you should take care of you now. Those years of being married were not a mistake, you are NOT a mistake, your H choices were wrong and selfish, and his family has little choice because they are flesh and blood.<P>There really are cakeman and cakewomen out there. I feel that if given a choice, your H would also want to have you in his life but it is not possible now. My WS's father had two women most of his life because the women were econimcally dependant on him. My maternal grandfather could afford to keep another two women apart from his first wife. Because of his wealth, his first wife allowed and accepted the others as legitimate wives with children.<P>Unfortunately, some men have egos or needs that are quite difficult to understand. I really shudder when I think of those in my family tree that had more than a roving eye. Fortunately my paternal side is clear and honourable and that is why my father has always been faithful and honourable. My mother was WS.<P>Do you pray? I know it helps when I commit my life to God that God's will be done in my life. If you like, I will pray for you.<P>Resilient, if you are served and divorced whether against your will or not, move forward for there is a different and less painful life ahead of you. I had a tragic first marriage and clung to it for too long because I didn't want to fail at my vows and because I did feel for my WS, however misplaced those feelings were. I was abused verbally, mentally and sometimes physically. But I didn't want my life to be a mistake and the marriage a mistake and kept at a blanc marriage. But the overiding reason was that he was an abused orphan and I took him in like a wounded animal that needed care and unconditional love. He was unable to be cured and I was not equipped to help him. In the end, I was bitten and hurt and abused. We parted and he went on to his philandering and manipulative ways.<P>What I am trying to say is that there are people who can love and then move on without feeling much simply because they never had it in them in the first place to really love with their souls. They merely parked at someone's hearts and then very easily reverse and move on to another. I know such and met such. To your H, you are not a mistake, but he is a weak man who allow his lack of self control to run or ruin his life.<P>Please do not let his failure to commit to his vows define you as a person. I wouldn't know how my marriage would be and whether my WS would still be around if I had not have Jesus as my personal saviour. At the end of the day, it is between you and God. Children are gifts from God, and H are provided to look and love after his helpmeet (wife). The H is accountable to God if his family dissolves.<P>I probably am out of my depth giving you advice but I do know that many men do have hard hearts and that is why God grants divorce under adultery although God hates divorce. I would think your H's heart is hard, even to this present OP. He may never be able to fully love someone because he doesn't know how.<P>Blessed Christmas to you. When the load's too heavy, bend your knees and God will listen.<P>Love<BR>from weep

Hi Weep,<P>Thank you for responding Hon, just having a down morning. Yes ... would you please remember me in your prayers please? I will do the same for you.<P>I miss my H, the man he was. I miss talking to him, but I guess I have to accept that he is not, and no longer will be, the same person I remember. That's all I can come up with because the person I knew would never intentionally hurt me by filing so close to this Holy Holiday. He would have at least waited knowing I have no family to turn to thru the Holidays in the first place. <P>When I talked to him I said that doing this (D) so close to Christmas was cruel, he said in a quick strong voice "No it isn't, not at all". He no longer feels or cares about my emotions, of my well being. Good Lord that hurts, and moreover I feel like he deliberately did this at this time of year to try and hurt me as best he could, why else wouldn't he simply wait 2 weeks, what is two weeks to him, when a D will last the rest of our lives.<P>I'll get thru this somehow. I will get down on my knees and pray. I know God is there for me ... I know he loves me. I keep telling myself the stronger more resilient the person the more challenges He places in front of us. I don't want to dissapoint Him. <P>I know this is self pity ... I'm just so lonely for what was ... and being alone at this time of year certainly makes one think how we ever got here, why at this time in my life I have no one, not even a child to take care of. I was certain I would have a family in my life, at least children. I guess God has bigger better plans for me. I'll trust He knows best.<P>Thanks again Weep. I hope you are well. And I wish you Peace and Love through the Holidays. Thanks for always posting to me. <P>Love,<BR>Jo <p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited December 23, 2000).]

Hey Resilient -<P>I am still waiting for that phone call - you're almost a week late!!!! LOL!!!<P>I never like "blues" as part of Xmas colors.....so let's change them to golds and reds and greens, etc.....<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jo}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I send you a cyberhug, Hon, so sorry I cannot do it in personal. <P>I don't have any wise words to tell you, but I wanted you to know you are in my mind and my prayers. I well know what is it like to have no family to support you and in-laws supporting the A. <P>I read many of your posts, and I have no slightest doubt you are a wonderful person. It is only your cruel H's loss discarding such a beautiful soul. Sorry but I have no other word for what he has done but cruelty. <P>Hug yourself, Josie, you are the only person you can truly rely on now. I admire you for being so patient and thoughtful. If you need an ear to vent, please, feel free to use mine. I'll be there for you.<P>I will peray for you may Lord give you strenght to overcome this pain. <P>Adrian<P>adrian_faith@yahoo.co.uk<BR>

Oh Jo,<P>Damn this is going to be a rough one isn't it? I felt pretty good about it all until today for some reason it just hit me. Steve has the kids and I won't have them back until tomorrow. Then he takes them again on Christmas day...and they'll stay the night with him. All of my in-laws (27 people) will be at MIL's as usual...except me. You know, it hurts worse for the kids as I know they'll be missing me too. I love all of my neices and nephews to death, and this will be the first time in their lives I won't be there to see them open their presents. Wish I would have appreciated it all more in the past. We just never know what we're going to loose.<P>I'm going to look at it this way...it can't be any worse than discovery days 1 or 2. It can't be any worse than the stress in this house last Christmas when I knew H did'nt want to be with me, but still was. I remember going to a Christmas Concert last year and crying through the whole thing because I knew something was wrong, and he kept denying it all.<P>At least Jo, we know the truth. That is the most important thing to me, to not be lied to anymore. We should know that we'll be sad, lonely, basically feel like crap, but at least it will be real...not some make-believe life.<P>I'll probably be posting like mad on christmas afternoon, so if you're around let's see if we (and whoever else has the blues) can get a good thread going. <P>C'mon January 2nd....I just want all of these Holidays over and done with.<P>allison

Thanks Adrian, Sheba and Allison,<P>Yeah, it's the "IFB" [Infidelity Funky Blues] kicking in. Trying to beat it ain't easy. Staying focused when family is no where to be found is such a challenge. Feeling entirely alone in this world can surely make you feel you've done something wrong or maybe even that you're a bad person.<P>I'm with you Allison, I'm much better off than last year at this time. That was a three ring circus ... almost felt criminal the way things were transpiring with me and OW and OCs all trying to bend to what my H decided to do, a man that was called psychotic by my counselor. He was so out of control and Yo Yoing back and forth, full of blame and anger ... I HEAR YA ... it is better than last year. I too wish I would have appreciated the earlier years at this time more than I did. <P>Well, I'm headed to get my hair colored in an hour ... with my mood the way it is right now I might go for ORANGE with green ends ... an in your face look. Will you guys still hang with me with this look???? LOL<P>I'll post when I get home,<P>Love and hugs...<P>Jo<P>p.s. Sheba, I do owe you a call and need to talk with you. I have to take out a loan just for the last chat we had ... you know we talked for approx 2 hours ... jeeez!

Just wanted you to know you were being thought about today. It is already Christmas Eve here & prayers being sent your way.

To Jo,Allison,and others,<P> I am having a Christmas from the twilight zone.This feels totally unreal to me.For the first year in my married life I am celebrating Christmas Eve alone.My H ,and 2 children are at my MIL,s having Christmas.And I am not there.<P> This time last year H was having an internet affair,I knew he was spending every waking moment on the computer.He said he was just talking to "friends".Little did I know he was talking with the women he is now living with.The ultimate betrayal of someone who you trusted.<BR> Do not believe your H is all that happy,how could he cause all that pain,and not have guilty feelings. <BR> Got to go now,will check in later to see if you dyed your hair orange and green Jo.

Beth,<P>Lora has kept me up to date with your story, Hon. I ask her on a regular basis how you're doing. I know what you've been going thru ... I feel so much empathy for you. I know how bad you've been hurting, Beth. I know it's a nightmare for you this Christmas ... I'm so sorry, so very sorry. I wish I could help you ... I don't know why God has picked us to challenge this way, He must think lot of us by giving us so much to get thru ... <P>I will here here this evening (12/24) posting if you need me or want to post. Beth, just know that this will one day fade and our lives will be different, very different and possibly better. We just have to take each phase, take the blows, think about what they mean and try not to react in a way we would regret later. I promise you that when all is said and done we will be better people ... it's just how much more time before we get THERE that's the hard part.<P>Love to you Beth, love and prayers and good thoughts. What you've gone thru has been almost unbelievable ... the pain and the hurt are always with us these days ... we are surviving tho and we need each other, especially now ... I'm sorry your kids aren't with you right now, I'm sorry you are alone ... be good to yourself, Hon. Give yourself a Christmas gift and be calm and try and relax thru the next couple days. They're almost done with, thank GOD!<P>Love,<BR>Jo

Jo,<P>I swear to God that your H is a carbon copy of mine...and your in-laws too. It's enough to make you scream and pull your hair out!<P>I have been reading a really good book though called Rebuilding. It talks a lot about the dumper/dumpee and how those two points of view about the same divorce differ drastically. It also talks a lot about seemingly normal spouses who then sort of "flip out" and rebel against the confines of their marriage, accountability, responsibility, etc. It said 90% of these personality types have another relationship in the wings when they begin dumping their spouse - it's because they are too damn chicken to leave independently - they have to operate with backup and moral support. THEY LACK THE EMOTIONAL MATURITY TO OPERATE INDEPENDENTLY. The theory is that most people in this category (usually men, usually mid 30's to 40's), never really learned to be independent from their parents before getting married. They hit the 30s-40s and suddenly feel stifled/controlled/etc. by their life and they dump their spouse trying to find the independence they never developed in their youth. But because they lack emotional development to go it alone, they find an OW to help them "get free."<P>It is illogical, but they don't see it. The innocent spouse is often quoted as saying things like "this is not the same man I've known or married to for x number of years" and "if he'd just snap out of this bizzare behavior..."<P>Sound familiar? My husband and I got married very young - Just before his 20th birthday and I was 19. I had lived on my own attending college in his hometown. He still lived at home until I married him. His mother is verrrryyyyy controlling and manipulates through guilt (think Everybody Loves Raymond MIL). I even used to complain to my mom about my H's inability to cut the apron strings. This book has my stbxH's act down perfectly.<P>Here I thought my divorce was so personal, so original, so confusing and unexplainable that no one could possibly understand and low and behold...we fit a very stereo-typical profile.<P>Oddly, I find comfort in that. It allows me to distance myself from all the blame and anger he directed at me as reasons for his behavior.<P>The real plus is - (here's where you and I get our revenge) - until the stbx realizes why he's behaving the way he is - he is doomed to repeat the mistakes in other relationships, over and over again. He will not improve love relationships until HE learns to be an independent person who does not need someone else in order to find self worth. Almost all relationships following the divorce by a dumper of this type end up in flames and the poor idiots don't even know what hit 'em.<P>Hope that helps!<P>Feel free to email me at laporter66@hotmail.com if you want to chat more - I'm in Washington State also and understand how much it sucks to not be able to use "fault" in divorce. No fault divorces feel like somehow they get away with it scott-free.<P>------------------<BR>---------<BR>To err is human, to forgive divine.

Dear Jo,<BR> Been trying to get back to you ,got interrupted when I was half way thru responding to you.<BR> Wow,just read soon2b-alone's response.That descriptipon fits my H also.Once I even asked him if he had OW waiting in the wings ,just in case "we" didnt work out.<BR> Thanks for the support you offered on Christmas Eve.I try to keep up with you too.I read all your posts ,even if I dont respond to them all.And I keep track of Allison too.<BR> I am sorry your H served with Divorce papers 2 days before x-mas.It seems like we make stupid mistakes when we are dealing with this.<BR> I will pray for you that God releases you from pain and gives you peace.<P> Love,<BR> Beth