I think I may be coming to the first major crossroad that will put Plan A to the test in the next few days.<P>I am the husband whose wife has been involved in an affair with her boss (also a woman) for over a year now. D Day was in late October for me. I have been following the principles of Plan A since then. I have received counseling through a local therapist and have talked with Steve Harley twice. My wife, who doesn't see that she has any problem EXCEPT being married to me, did not want to talk to any therapist. She did attend one session with me with the local counselor, boldly informing her that she was there only for me. This counselor recommended to my wife at the end of that session that she seek regular counseling since so much was at stake. At that time, my wife wanted no part in it.<P>Since that time, the other woman has left her husband and moved into an apartment. This was somewhat easy because there are no children involved with them. My wife, who is still living at home, informed me that she would be moving out after the holidays. We have two daughters, 9 and 14. She is seeking a home rental or apartment close by so we can share custody of the kids and they will not have to switch schools. She wants us to refinance our present home mortgage to a longer term so we can reduce our monthly living expense and she can afford this other place. At first, I didn't want to do this. But I used it as a bargaining ploy. I agreed to look into the refinancing if she would seek some regular counseling. She also agreed, telling me that it was a good idea because her counselor was going to prove that she was right and really in love with this other woman. She was then going to bring me along after a couple of sessions and her counselor was going to "straighten me out". So far after several sessions, I have yet to be invited. In fact, I strongly believe these sessions are not going the way my wife wants them to because she doesn't want to discuss them with me.<P>I have also been able to convince my wife to talk with Steve Harley. This will happen tomorrow. I have a follow up session with Steve later in the day. Again, she agreed to do this for me, not her. Only I better get this refinancing thing in order because she wants to move out very soon.<P> Up to now, I have committed myself to Plan A. No love busting. No disrespectful judgements. No angry outbursts although at times she richly deserves it. I have been there for her as a baby sitter for my kids when she goes out with her boss. In short, I have pretty much let her walk all over me. I have reminded her, through words, cards and flowers, that I still love her deeply and I want to make our marriage work. I try not to do this too often, usually once a week or so, because I realize that this could be considered an LB if you do it too much.<P>Which again, brings me to a major crossroad. Because of these negotiations have gone through with my wife, we will have to talk about the details of the separation in the next few days. Steve and I will cover this tomorrow. I had mentioned to him last time that my wife is expecting that this will be looked at by everyone close to us, including our children, as just my wife and I having problems and separating. No one close to us will know anything about he affair with her lady boss. Since they both will have there own places, they will undoubtly always be together when the kids are at my house and in separate abodes when they are with my wife. This other woman is somewhat close to my kids and has been known by them for sevearl years. In short, their plan is to keep everything from the kids.<P>Enter reality. Almost everyone close to us (brothers, sisters, close friends), suspected the affair long before I ever knew. I had complete faith in my wife, never doubting her fidelity for a moment. My oldest daughter has already developed an adverse attitude towards this other woman. She has complained to me several times about how much time Mommy spends with her and away from our family. Christmas night she had an argument with my wife about this very subject.<P>Steve and I had covered in our last session that if my wife does move out, our children need to know the complete truth. Which will mean everyone will know because my daughters will not hold back. My mother-in-law, who probably suspects but just doesn't want to even entertain the idea, will be devasted. She is a VERY religious woman and also knows that I love my wife and want to try and make our marriage work.<P>I am hoping that my wife will look at this as a line in the sand that she just may not have the determination to cross. I pray that she won't look at this as a major LB and that she sees I am making this demand because of the kids. God forbid they find out from someone else down the road. Up to now, she has been in this protected little world with this other woman. Could this dose of reality ne enough to start her thinking the other direction? <P>Has anybody else reached a similiar situation?

AH - I was in a similar situation back in August before I found MB. I reluctantly agreed with my wife to describe the separation to my son as "problems between Mommy and Daddy" instead of telling him the truth about her affair. This was driven by her denial of the affair and her successful mind game to compartmentalize the affair from our marriage problems.<P>I wholeheartedly agree with your plan and in hindsight, I wish I had more knowledge to come up with the same thing. For your wife: You play the roll, you pay the toll.<P>If you refinance, consider getting the mortgage and deed in your name only. Make her buy you out of her part of the equity. Of course, she probably can't afford that right now, but consider getting a legal separation to tie these things down. That process IS a dose of reality. My wife demanded a legal separation and after we went through the process and I signed it, she didn't. I'm still waiting.<P>WAT

AH - I think we were posting to each other at the same time. I hope your guidance from Steve makes for a better outcome than mine. Good luck.<P>Dave (WAT)

What do we say to the kids when the WS wants it to be known as "a problem between Mom & Dad" and they don't feel that the OW is a factor that should be brought up because as my H says he made up his mind to end the marriage before he started his PA w/OW. Should they know the whole truth? They are bound to find out when we move because OW is planning on moving in w/H.

In my case, the news broke before the WS moved out. He thought it best to announce to my 5 year old son that his aunt, my brother's wife, was his girlfriend. Up until then, my son knew we were having problems and believed I was the one "making his daddy move out". Since that time, I have commited myself to total honesty to my children, I have 2 boys, 7 and 2. The youngest does not know much because of his age and he has never had his father in his life because he left just after he was born, but the oldest knows he can talk to me about anything. He also knows that he will get the truth approached very tenderly of course. I'm not sure from a therapist's point of view, if how I handle it is appropriate, but I do know that it has brought my son and I closer together and he trusts he will get the truth from me, no matter what. I believe that if the WSs' want to play the game and they think it so wonderful to be with the other person, then why do they want to continue to lie about it.

My situation is probably much different because the girls are a lot older. That does not mean that they won't need therapy. I plan to give them every opportunity for help. I fortunately have a program at work that gives three free sessions to each member of my family for any type of crisis that may occur.<P>In a way, I am looking forward to this happening. I'm not going to get my hopes too high that it may lead to something good, but at least it will be the first major obstacle in the road for my wife. Up to now, she has had her way more often than not and therein lies the difficulty of her coming to any type of rational realization. At the very least, if she chooses to continue down the same path, she will have to do so with everything out in the open. That has got to take a toll on her relationship with this other person.

Always Hopeful,<P>My guess that once you D's know and her parents know she will pull even further away from you. You will be blamed for this because you "did it to hurt her." So be very careful.<P>I do believe that your D's need to know the truth. They are old enough to understand and you don't want them getting blindsided at school with gossip. <P>This whole thing is very tough, but there is always hope that she will come out of the fog. I hope that you have been doing your best Plan A. <P>Finally, about the refinancing. I would get a legal separation agreement before committing any money to your W. You are increasing the debt of your family for this excercise and if she does decide to go forward with the D, you want your family protected fanancially.<P>Tough stuff, but I do hope it works out for you.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL<<P>That is why I plan to follow Steve Harley's advice to the letter. I must find a way to put this to my wife that it is a consequence of HER actions, not mine. How that is going to happen is unknown to me right now. I know it won't be easy.<P>Thanks for the advice on the refinancing. But I am not really increasing our debt by doing this. Just moving debt we already have to a longer term. Right now, my wife and I are trying to keep lawyers out of it and do any arrangements on our own. This could be further evidence that deep down inside, this might be something my wife just might not want to do. I realize, though, if it does get any further after our discussions with Steve Harley today that I will have to get some legal advice.<p>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited December 28, 2000).]