I worked out my budget last night. With me in the nice house we bought 1.5 years ago, and my wife in her house, there isn't much room for anything. If I sell the house, and move into one almost the same, it would enable me to pay our debts (with equity) and make a downpayment, thus continuing on relatively unscathed. However, if I attempt to keep this place, it is tight, and I'll have to tell my wife that she needs to make the lease payments on the car that she drives. That likely won't go over big.<P>What she asked for in support was very reasonable, so I agreed. If she went to court, she could get more, so I don't want to rock the boat too much. However, she isn't spending like a separated woman with 2 kids, and this bothers me alot. Example, having four appointments in the 5 days before her New Years eve gala with OM. Nails, waxing, haircut, and another hair appointment....must be for putting it up like at a wedding. Waste of money to look good for Mr. Slime. I'm planning on cutting back things that I really don't need. I'd expect the same from her, but given how stubborn she is now (and usually), I expect this to be a big confrontation. Her first reaction is always "sell your house", because she knows I could pay debts and get another house. But I want to keep this one for at least 6 months for the children's sake. Then after that, see what happens.<P>What do you think? Is keeping the house for the kids a really good idea? Or not so important. Given that things are relatively smooth right now, should I shut up about her spending, and let her drive herself into a hole? It is a tough one because it has LB written all over it, but finances are rather important as you all know.<P>Any advice appreciated. Also, I'm itching to tell her what I think about these ridiculous appointments to look good for one night. I'm like one of those toys with a button and 15 sayings all ready to come out, each one a fine example of an LB. Do I just let it pass for now, but just discuss the bigger issue of the car payment?<P>Another thought is to deliver the financial news just before the big gala New Years eve, but that is rather nasty isn't it.<P>Thanks for your insight.<p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited December 29, 2000).]

Hi Rick,<P>Not sure I have ever replied to you. Honestly I would say to protect yourself financially. I also would not say anything about the appointments.<P>Do you have a seperation agreement. If not any bills she incures at this time you might be liable for half of them. If her name is on the car lease than she should pay for it. If you want to stay in the house than you should. Get the seperation agreement in hand before she gets any deaper in debt.

Rick,<P>I think you should let your W go ahead and put herself in debt. That may sound cruel, but right now she is in so much fog that she doesn't see money as an issue. Right now she is wanting to live out a fantasy...where money is not an issue. Once the fog lifts she'll have to learn to live with the consquences (debt among those). And hopefully have learned a lesson from it.<P>As far as keeping the house for the kids, I commend you for not wanting to rock their lives too much. They've been through enough already. Someone has to think of the kids here and it doesn't seem to be your W. I say try and tough it out as long as possible. What is the real estate market in your area? Can you put the house on the market say in March and not sell it till June?<P>Good luck.

Rick, that's a tough one. It stinks that she is acting like a single woman free of all responsibilities, both family and financial!<P>I know that it will probably be a big LB, but your wife needs to take responsibility for her actions. If that means making her car payment, then that's what should happen. I know that it will be difficult to present this to her without making it confrontational, but unfortunately, she needs to realize what the ramifications of her choices are at this point. You could just show her the budget on paper and ask for her input as to how she thinks things could be better handled.<P>I would say if you can swing it, to stay in your house for awhile longer. It may be harder on your kids to move them right now. I think consistency from you is really important, and moving could really shake them up. Also, if she wakes up, then I would think you would want her to move back into your nice house, right?<P>This is something I've thought about a lot, because if my H moved out (like he talked about for awhile), in order to live comfortably, I would have had to sell our 3500 sf house that we built a year and a half ago, too. However, I had been advised to not do that for awhile because it's too big of a decision in that kind of situation. <P>I'm also like one of those toys, unfortunately, my mouth doesn't stay shut most of the time. I would probably make some kind of pointed remark, but that's just me. Probably the worst thing to do, but I can't help myself in those situations.<P>If it comes to divorce for you, then it may be time to move, but for now, I'd stay, if you can make it work!

Thanks for the quick replies, and any subsequent ones. To address some questions/comments:<P>Real estate market here is really hot, and the house I'm in appreciated about 25% since we bought. No problem to sell if I want, but I'd like to stick it out, at least for awhile. If I get stuck, I'll dump our expensive dining room set for some cash. Funny thing, my wife said about 2 months ago, that she hoped I didn't have to do that because she really likes it. What is that?<P>I do consider it too big a decision to just sell the house because of my wife's selfishness. She wanted me to do it on a whim in the summer. We've had problems with her hap hazard nature in the past. I'm the logical think about it kind, and she will reverse a decision on the fly or make a new one that has consequences. I wonder if the A and separation was just the next one in line. Nevertheless, I do want to hang on for the kids, and also in case the fog clears. It would be nice to work it out and keep this nice house we had built.<P>

Rick - what a timely post. I've got a different flavor of the same potential LB coming up fast.<P>This is where a legal separation can be worth something. It makes you write down who's responsible for what and it gets all the financial nastiness over with at one time if you stick to it.<P>I say divide up the expenses based on who benefits. You pay for your house, she pays for her house AND car. Equally divide all liquid assets and open separate bank accounts. Pay off jointly held credit cards and get separate ones. Close all joint accounts and liquidate any jointly held assets (unless you agree to hold untouched until a better time to sell comes up). Then when you know what you have, figure out your budget. If you need to sell the house, do it only if you need to for your budget - remember, there are big expenses selling and buying houses. If her budget comes up short, that's life in the fog business and it's your choice to help her out or not. It's a jungle out there.<P>Here's my problem. We DO have a legal separation - sort of. We divided everything up right off the bat and agreed to how we would share future expenses and home and car equities. After the first month we were able to separate credit cards and we tallied everything up from left over purchases and started out with a clean slate. That was in September. We haven't done it since. She owes me thousands and I've been reluctant to press the point because for awhile I thought we'd be back together by now and she never signed the legal separation. We've got a big private school bill coming due so I'm faced with a big LB when I ask her to pay up. In fact, I think she hasn't signed the separation agreement because she finally figured out she bit off more than she can chew. Anyway, my plan is to lay it all out in a business-like fashion and try real hard not to make her feel like I'm trying to corner her.<P>So that's my advice - divide everything up on paper, see where you are, present the facts in a non-provacative way, and don't box her in. If you want to have some fun, ask her how much OM is contributing to her expenses - NOT.<P>Hey, stay away from busting her chops about all the girly stuff. You know where that'll go!<P>Dave (WAT)

So now we are operating out of the same script. Someone take this thing and tear it up. Good luck with your situation. Not a nice one at all.<P>Problem I have is we loosely agreed to our dividing. I cash in investments and give her the downpayment for her house. Done deal. I take on all existing debts, but get our house, and it has equity. In the end it works out about equal, but unfortunately, for me to keep this house, it might be a stretch with some of the debt load we have. I can coast for awhile, but property taxes are approaching any day, and so are income taxes which I'll owe some. So, I'm on the beach running and the big wave is on its way. Meanwhile, she is sitting in the clubhouse with sunglasses and a drink. Happy New Year.<P>Thanks for your advice. Mine is also reluctant to sign an agreement. I don't get it. You want to be separated or you don't. Or perhaps you want it physically but not own up to any of the reality. The debts we have are basically the result of overextending on this new house, and filling it with nice stuff. Three months after that process was done, she's outta here. Thanks honey. Sorry, but I'm a bit sarcastic right now.<P>

Rick37,<BR>I think you should talk to you W about the finances. Forget the appointments, she will just get mad. See if some kind of agreement can be made about what she has to pay. When my W left, she was paying for her own apartment and bills with no support from me. I didn't want her to leave and told her that I wouldn't help her. Your W needs a reality check, that without you, she won't be having this single life lifestyle and she shouldn't. Why should she have fun and have no responsibilities and you have all of them. Do whats best for your kids and yourself. Thats my take on it. Is it right? I don't know!<P>Take care!

What does anyone think about the fact that if she got nasty, she could go to a judge and get more than what she is getting now. That is my fear, and the reason why I want to tread lightly. Where I live, conduct during the marriage has NO impact on separation/divorce settlements. I'm probably headed for a disaster anyway because of her spending right now, because even with a signed agreement, she can always go back to the courts and say she can't survive. It really stinks. Not sure what it is like everywhere, but that is how it works here.

Rick - there's something fundamentally wrong if she's not paying for the car lease. Also, how much is she contributing to paying off debts (other than mortgages - I assume she's paying her own)? Bottom line, how much are you indirectly supporting her over what she asked for in direct support?<P>WAT

Rick,<P>I didn't get around to posting to you an hour ago (I was interrupted), but I have a completely different take on this:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What she asked for in support was very reasonable, so I agreed. If she went to court, she could get more,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>She's being more than reasonable, more that "fair". <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm planning on cutting back things that I really don't need. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Good---that's always a prudent thing to do.<P>Now---the real issue is that you're pissed off at her conduct. The affair is really annoying you. I don't see money as the primary motivation at this point. She's not looting your 401K, or spending all the money out of a joint account. She's just spending money in a way that you don't approve of.<P>OK, if that's the issue: what's your goal? Divorce? Or reconciliation?<P>If it's divorce, then guess what---you're going to end up with LESS money. You will sell the house. She will get more from you.<P>If it's reconciliation, then I would suggest that you not lovebust. Your mentioning her appointments and the way she's spending money on the affair will be a lovebuster. Face it---affairs are expensive. But divorce is more expensive. If you want to fight this effectively, do the best job budgeting that you possibly can do to save the house. It's not like you're going to be doing this for 10 years---your goal is to be either reconciled or divorced within a 2 year period. If she does spend herself into a hole and needs more money from you; then this might be a time to show her your newly-learned marital skills for how to negotiate safely and pleasantly. You can eventually have that conversation (if she initiates it), but do it without lovebusters.

Dear Rick,<P>Boy, I feel for you! It's just like the kids issue. Why does the WS get to have an A, refuse to work on the marriage, hurt you to your core, move out and then a) get to take your children from you sometimes, b) make you scrap for money while they are not c) fill in the blank -- there seem to be an infinite number of unfair things.<P>In line with my previous postings to you, I would advise you to stay in your house as long as you can for the kids. Consistency at their ages is crucial. They are probably too young to verbally express their fears a lot, but with all they have had to adjust to lately, leaving the house may make them really start to question the permanency of everything. They may wonder if you are going to leave them too.<P>As for the finances, I agree with others that she should at least pay for her car. Maybe you could lay out on paper what the situation looks like and then show her what you are going to do to cut back and then suggest that she pay for the car. Present staying in the house, at least for now, as for the kids so she will have a harder time seeing that in your column of advantages.<P>As for the appointments, I thoroughly agree they are incredibly extravagant expenditures for one night. BUT, it will gain you nothing to complain about it to her -- complain to us instead. Besides, the more effort and money she spends for that night, the greater the build up and the less likely that the night will ever live up to whatever fantasy she has built!

K - Wow, you're exactly right. You were able to put it into perspective really well. Good for me Rick started this topic because I'm going to have to confront this nasty money business real soon, and there's no way my wife can pull her weight for what she's already committed to - and I'm gonna have to take up the slack. I'll take your advice to take whatever opportunity I can to demonstrate problem resolution without getting emotional. Maybe the Beatles were wrong with, "Can't buy me love!"<P>WAT

My H started his A 3 months after we built our dream house, too!! We were told by the builder and several of the subcontractors that we got along better than any other couple they'd worked with. Ironic, huh?<P>

What's with these walk-away spouses after you build them their dream home? The same thing has happened to me, and now I live alone in this beautiful house in the woods.<BR>The BS ends up paying all the bills to finance the WS's pursuit of happiness. Why can't they tell us BEFORE we build these places. <BR>How many of us here thought we were buiding these homes for to appease our spouses? And how many WS's knew while they were building that they had no long-term intention of staying?<BR>(Sorry to jump in but I noticed tis recurring trend between building new homes, and upcoming separations or infidelities.)

WAT, I'm currently providing about $500 extra if you count the car lease and insurance that is still from my account. The least ends in about 6 months, but she plans on turning the car in a few months early to get something else, which will be her own responsibility.<P>K does have a good perspective on it. Affairs are expensive, and Divorces worse. <P>Exhausted, you provide very good advice as usual. And hurtinginil/true north - thanks. Crazy isn't it. My wife was so excited about the new house, the builders thought we were such a good couple too. We became friends with the sales manager, my wife started working for the builder eventually, the sales manager is now a good friend of mine, and my wife's boss. Don't think she likes that we are good friends....a bit of a twisted scenario going. My wife still tells new clients that she lives here! Good for business when you joined the builder after buying.<BR>I knew that you guys/gals would calm me down about the New Years eve beautifying preparations....I needed to hear it anyway.<BR>