Thought some of you would find this article interesting. One of my H's biggest EN is a clean house, it was/is one of my worst failures. I honestly don't see what others see, but when I have tried he would never say anything, one of my biggest EN was appreciation/ approval on what I great job I was doing. This link really hits the spot.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.comfortqueen.com/results.html?191" TARGET=_blank>http://www.comfortqueen.com/results.html?191</A> <P>when we were in counseling last yr., & I was teaching we were told that we should get a housekeeping service, H wouldn't hear for it. now we are living in a country where 75% to 90% of the people have maids (live in ones at that), has he brought up we can use one, oh no, he just complains about how messy it is, there is no storage here, no closets, it is hard to put some things away when there is no place to put it. vent vent. I don't want a live in, but a part time maid would be nice.

Your H probably doesn't want you to have a maid now because it would take away one of his justifications for doing what he is doing. A clean, tidy house may really be one of your H's ENs, but I have become a little skeptical of what our Hs decide their ENs are when they are in the middle of an A. I think they may correctly identify an EN, but I think sometimes they might give it more weight than it really has with them to justify their actions. <P>I know I was not meeting some of my H's ENs, I'm not trying to hide from that. I just get the feeling when we have talked about it that he really likes the idea of being able to blame me for him having an A and that makes me a little cynical as to whether he is being totally honest with me or himself about the ENs.<P>Just a thought! Whatever your true skills as a housekeeper, it is evident that you are a great mom and that is what legacies are made of, not passing a white glove test!

Thanks for the kind words.<P>You know in some ways our WHs sound so much a like, & like other WS, have you ever thought if we cut our postings out, take out the personal bits (about children's ages, sexes, etc.), do you think our WS could pick themselves out, or would they realize that almost all WS are alike & their A is not special it is just like all the other cheap ones. oh well just a thought

For those who do get overwhelmed with organization and keeping up with the house, there is an email list that teaches about organization. <P>The webpage for this list is here.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.egroups.com/group/FlyLadyMentors" TARGET=_blank>http://www.egroups.com/group/FlyLadyMentors</A> <P>This is the link to the website with the routines.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.flyladymentors.eboard.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.flyladymentors.eboard.com</A> <P><BR>

I think you make a good point about all the WSs being alike. Has your H ever read SAA? Mine read it once when out of the fog and it really shook him, I think, to see himself described so accurately. I think it was a huge factor in all the waffling he did over the last 2 months.<P>If our Hs could just step back and really see what they are doing from afar, I really think they would be horrified. My H's mother got him to start seeing a new counselor. My H told me that he told the counselor that he had moral, ethical, and religious problems with what he was doing. The counselor, bless his soul, told my H that those feelings wouldn't go away! Apparently, though, my H wants to learn the hard way. It is really sad to see someone feel and act so helpless to do the right thing when I sense he really wants to on some level.<P>Oh well, that was off the topic but felt good to share.

SueB, Thanks for the links I will check them out. I have read all the bks & stuff, I just don't like keeping house, I don't see/doesn't bother me what does others. Unfortunately it is one of my H's biggest needs, he thinks I did nothing for yrs because the house was messy (doesn't matter that I had kids running in/out all the time), that all the chauffeuring of the boys, volunteering at their school, teaching Sunday school, etc. was nothing because I didn't do the house 1st. I admit it was last on my list of things, when H was traveling I did all the others, then do the house, but to keep a great house, I turn in to witch mommy, I always thought it was more important to be a nice mommy, guess I was wrong.<P>Exhausted, my H has skimmed SAA, he couldn't see himself, & to me it was so obvious. He has struggled with what he has done, it has caused him great anguish. our counselor told him that it was pride, that caused it, H thinks it is because he wants to please OW & me. Like that can happen. I think this is why when he is with me he wants to work things out, why he can't ever tell me to my face that it is over, but when he is with her it is the same thing. I have tried to let him go but when I do he doesn't want it. I was ready to leave here, I was even at the point I could have left the boys here till the end of term, (if that was what they wanted) but he kept going it is not good for them for you to leave & he doesn't want to uproot them again either, especial as they are both happy here now. The reason I would have left them, I need 21 hrs to be certified to teach Social Studies, have a degree, did my student teaching, but 20 yrs ago I didn't send in the paper work, in 20 yrs states have added more things, I taught last yr on an emergency permit, to have taught this yr I needed to take 6 hrs before school started, we moved so I didn't, I don't know if I would need the whole 21 or just 12 before I could teach say for the 2001/2002 school yr, where we came from there are 4 big new schools opening for next yr, If I went back I could do my school, with no hassles of being a mom, most likely get a job, & be ready to teach, be a single mom, & get my life in order but here I sit hoping one last time that we can work it out. By not going back now, if we go back in June,I will have dramatically decreased my chances of getting one of those jobs, but it makes that much harder for H to leave also. just rambling here<P>On another front the other big EN of my H that I failed/still failing is how I look. He admits that he never said anything about it till all this broke in spring of 99, I have lost 20lbs, & kept it off but still could lose say 25 or 30 (being a little over 5' every lbs shows) that would put me on the high end of the weight chart but H did like it when I was there. The funny thing is before all this broke lose I asked for VAl day in 1999, secessions with a trainer, he didn't set it up, I wanted him to set it up, then I go. Then here do we live in a condo where there are things like fittness rooms, pools, etc. no, we have house, he says his company won't pay for the American Club, H & OS didn't like the weight room there so they joined a hugh fittness center here, that is between an $8 to $10 ( all $ amounts Sing) taxi ride from our house, now do I have anywhere to work out, no. I would feel most comfortable at the American Club where I would know people in the classes, or just working out. It is like another example of him wanting something & not giving me any help to achieve it. I do walk quite a bit here,<P>Sorry for all the vents.....just needed to get it out.

When I first found out 6 months ago, that is one of my H's first eompalints. I did not make myself up, the house was not clean, even though I was the at home wife, I should act like it, and that my weight finally had a factor--he had denied it for 16 years. he sets me up to be prideful, only to find out at my biggest crisis that all those things he had been telling me were lies, only he did not know it. <P>Yea, right!!!<P>Since then, I have lost weight, done my face every day, become the perfect housekeeper, only to see it make no difference. I did slack off with the house. If he wants it clean, he can hire a thieving maid. (All my friends have had probs.) It is good enough. I clean it thoroughly once a week and do the laundry, he can't ask for more than that. I am not anal, after all!!!!!<P>B<P>Oh, and in case you wanted to know, I too wanted approval, appreciation, for him to notice and say thank you. Anything. the fact is, he admitted he only noticed when it was messy, not when it was neat!! he only noticed my short comings, not my achievements. No wonder he cannot find anything to love. He really doesn't look!!! What has that bimbo got that I don't? Older Age and a job. Anything else, I would not know. Still.<p>[This message has been edited by burnedspouse (edited January 01, 2001).]

I have come here often reading the posts, but have never posted here myself. With reading about the housekeeping, etc...the spouses never showing appreciation for what does get done...in other words, taking you for granted for ALL that you do...this is what I chose to do for my H to so he can understand EXACTLY how much he took me for granted. I no longer do anything around the house. If he wants clean clothes, he can wash them (and mine and our daughters too). He can fix our dinners and clean up afterwards. He can write the checks to make sure the bills get paid (my car payment still hasn't been paid yet). He can do EVERYTHING that I did for 14 years of our marriage without him ever once thanking me for it, not to mention having an affair to show me how proud of me he was. I was holding down a job from 7:30 a.m. until 5:30 p.m. Picked up our daughter from daycare...etc, etc. He did not contribute financially or in any other way toward our family and/or household. He DID help out occasionally, but evidently not enough to understand what all that I did for US. So, again...I am in a position now that I no longer work out of the home...but I also no longer work in the home either. My house looks pretty much like a dump now, but that is no longer my responsibility...it's his now. So, if he doesn't like how the house looks...then he can just clean it up!<p>[This message has been edited by Not2badoff (edited January 01, 2001).]

I personally have come to the realization of one thing. I realized after the A that two things failed my marriage. One was my actions and the other was my WS's actions. Steve Harley asked me in counseling one day who's job it was to make my WS stay "In Love". Obviously the answer was me... Then he asked who's job it was to keep me "In Love". Again obviously it is my WS. He explained the A was caused by neither of us doing our jobs. The only thing I can control is my own actions... I cannot control the actions of my WS but I can control my own. Luckily for me once I started taking care of my job my WS responded almost immediately. My Father taught me a long time ago that no matter what you do in life as long as you've given it your best, Win or lose, you're always a winner. This is what I plan on being. No matter what the outcome, no matter the final score. When the game is over and the dust has cleared I will walk away with my head high and know that I'm a winner... I've found peace in everything... I've forgiven.. Once I did this I began to live again... My advice is do your part. If it doesn't work out you can walk away a winner. By the way he also told me "the affair was NOT my fault". There is no excuse for an A. But if I want to avoid this in the future I must meet my WS's En's and avoid LB'ing. Just my thoughts.... Crick