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<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

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I'm no expert, but I see alot of shame and self hate in her words. It seems like she can't forgive herself. She is still trying to blame and justify, probably to take away some of her shame and pain. <P>Can you enlist her familys help in trying to change her mind about counseling? Otherwise some self help books on shame may help if she is open to doing anything. I had one that was helpful to me I can get the name of if you want. It sort of sounds like she is not willing to break out of it though. Like she wants to be punished for what she did.<P>I'm sorry I can't be more help.<BR>Lora

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<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

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OOOO,<BR>I borrorowed that book from my counseler. I will get the name of it at my next session and let you know.<P>I'm sorry that your wives family can't be of more help. I think she doesn't even need to talk about the affair tho, but just about her feelings of worthlessness. Does she have a friend that she can talk to?<P>Maybe going to the classes she wants to would be good for her. She might get some good feelings and a sence of accomplisment from that. Didn't you say in the past that she had some issues from her family or in the past to deal with as well? Sorry I can't remember the details.<BR>Lora

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OOOO,<P>You have an interesting problem. You are married to a taker that is worrying about your feelings. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] In another words she is very confused.<P>I am no expert on this but her is what I would do if I were you. I would ignore what she has said. Over a year ago I'll bet she couldn't imagine having an affair either.<P>I would help her change jobs and careers. I would offer some of the punishment she seeks. By that I would put some boundaries down as the price for her continuing to live there. I would suggest that the criticism be reduced to nothing. If she has a problem she is to write it down and then you two discuss it at your convenience, which should be immediately. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>I would then simply love her and see if time, your consistent love, and your children can soften her heart. Her father does know her, and he is right: her basic nature cannot change. However how she handles her tendencies can be changed. Hence the idea about her "punishment", she must write it down before discussion.<P>OOOO, I don't really know how you want to deal with all of this, but if you want to continue on then give it time. Once she has broken off with OM (new job), once she has time to see that although she is guilty that you still love her, and once she has time to heal you may be married to the woman you love.<P>I don't know if this is a positive message to you or a negative message. I hope positive. Only you know how long and to what levels you are willing to go to save the marriage. But rest assured what she is saying will very likely change in 6 months.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS Have you thought of slipping some anti-D's into her morning juice? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

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Just a thought about your W likening your relationship to a glass. I feel that all relationships are more alive, changing all the time. It can change for the worse, as evident, but that only means it can change again, for the better, or best ever.<BR>My H said he needed "time alone" and was critical of me during the first weeks after DD of his EA with co worker. I think this is a defensive reflex to the guilt they feel. <BR>H now says that on DD he felt his heart in his throat and *also* relief that it was over.<BR>Don't give up. L<BR> L

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Dear OOOO<P>Your wife is still working out the issues in her life, especially in light of her wrongdoing.<P>Maybe she will not be able to forgive you if you were the one who had the affair and that is why she is so adamant that you cannot forgive her and accept her as a whole and complete package.<P>However, to keep putting the blame on you is unfair. An affair happens whether it is emotional, a kiss or intercourse. I used to snuff out any inkling of liking from someone because to exchange any innuendo that the person has effected a response other than professional or friendship-based would have amounted to a betrayal of my H. So, strictly speaking, an affair is not only physical.<P>I think it is very painful for you to have to work through your wife's unravelling of her life but you have been very patient and she is beginning to see that you have been a very supportive H so there are many things that she can't fault you with. <P>Even if you were to say that you were the one responsible for her having an A in the first place and pushed her to have intercourse, I doubt she will accept that because she knows it is not true. Really, I think she has realised that she messed up because she was selfish and self-centred, and chose to risk everything because she did not fully appreciate the meaning of life. Life is about being whole, sharing and caring and loving beyond oneself. Life is about passion and growing and loving and living and microexperiencing the joys around. BUT she needs to know that God can forgive and make her whole and call back the fragments of her life that have been torn away by OM.<P>You need to be patient yet firm that life doesn't sort itself out in her head or just by not confronting issues and working them out for the best of the marriage. Marriage takes two and in your case, 4 (children). She has to get out of this rut of despair.<P>Please keep us updated. I hope I can log on and read as I am having problems logging on.<P>God bless you<BR>take care<BR>from weep<P>

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<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

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My friend, I do not know how to respond with any amount of advice. Each situation is so different, it's hard to tell what your wife is thinking. It's clear that she feels TREMENDOUS guilt about what she did, and it's clear that her own self-worth is pretty low. Maybe she says she needs to be the TAKER for a while because she realizes that she has got to start boosting her own image of herself. It's the wierdest dichotomy that just when you need her to be all loving and apologetic to you in order to heal you, she needs you to be loving and giving to her in order to heal her. <P>I can't begin to tell you how proud I am of you. No, seriously, there are not words for the faithfulness, dependability, and steadfastness that you have shown to this woman. My encouragement to you would be to take care of yourself so that you can keep taking care of her. Be the slightest little bit selfish so that you are nourished enough to keep going. And, my friend, accept my hug to recharge your battery. Keep it up if you can, and if you can not, come here and we'll do what we can to help!<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{OOOO}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

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<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

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Your W sounds like a female version of my H. I've been separated from my H for 2 weeks now, and he continues to treat me with disregard and disinterest. It's not a plan B, but rather an opportunity for me to spend some time alone and attempt to reconstruct myself. It was also <I>supposed</I> to be his wakeup call that we have problems that he can no longer ignore. Struck out on that one. <P>I know how it feels to trigger an outburst. I try to discuss things with my H, but rarely do I get in more than two sentences before his outburst begins. My H is selfish and very critical of me. <P>OOOO, I've read many of your posts. You have a lot of patience, understanding and kindness. I see a lot of similarities in the way our spouses treat us, except my H isn't having an affair and he's perhaps more stubborn than your W. There's also no kids in my marriage.<P>I can't pretend to offer any advice of any value. I will share with you, however, some decisions that I've made. I've decided that perhaps I've had a fear of intimacy and that's how I've tolerated my dysfunctional marriage for so long. I think maybe I've been cured of that. I want very much to have a marriage that has love, affection, intimacy, and respect. I don't have any of those things. I've decided to remove disinterest, disregard, and indifference from my marriage. If I need to remove my H along with the traits, then that's what I'm going to do. <P>I'm phrasing this in the most positive words I can think of. I hope it shows. Each of us reaches a point where we have to say "enough is enough". I reached that point. It could also be described as giving up hope for the marriage, and that saddens me. On the other hand, it can also be described as taking a new look at what I consider acceptable within my life. It feels a lot better when I think that way. It ties in with boundaries, which must be set in loving ways. Hope you can find loving ways to set boundaries with your W, OOOO. <P>

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<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Do you know exactly what trigger his outburst? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Anything outside his comfort zone seems to trigger outbursts. We have monumental financial problems, and I can't discuss them with him. The whole situation was causing me tremendous stress. One thing I hadn't tried was silence. For two months I didn't say one cross word, not one subject outside his comfort zone was brought up. He seemed perfectly content with the arrangement. I, on the other hand, was shrivelling into dust on the inside. It's a very high price. OOOO, I hope since you have kids that you have a continuous stream of rewards for staying in your marriage. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Have you read the book title “the five love languages” by Gary Chapman? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've looked for it at the library, and they don't have it. Buying books these days is out of the question. Can you give me some highlights?

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lonesome heart, see if your library can do an "interlibrary loan" and get you the book from another library. It's worth the wait - and I do understand about the financial thing...<P>If they can do an interlibrary loan, they can get almost any book you want.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

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<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

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OOOO,<P>Given what your W said about being comfortable and then wanting to criticize you, I would suggest that you give the writing thing a try. I would tell her that she is free to critize you but it must be in writing. It must be detailed so that you really understand what the problem is. And then she must be willing to sit and listen to you respond to her criticism.<P>As for the glass analogy, it is very appropriate, but she forgot one thing. You can remake the glass without any cracks, just as you made it the first time: With lots of heat and fire. I'll bet you feel like you have been through the fires of hell and so does she. The only question is if the glass is molten enough to reform into a much more beautiful glass. Yes, without cracks.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

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Hi. This is coming from someone who is in the same position as your wife. And i do mean exactly. Give her her space. Be patient.This is what my hubby is doing and it is helping tremendously. She probly like me does need counseling but couldn't even begin to know where to start.I wish i could talk to your wife so we could relate with each other.You must also take into consideration that her feelings are real. Just be patient and get support from friends and don't push her.

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<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

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<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

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Well it has been six months since my EA. However I still feel like I want out and at times I want to Work it out. So I guess there is stil hope for me. It also sounds like your wife is not happy with herself as i am feeling the same. She needs to find happiness with herself first before she can work it out with you, that is something iam realizing.I am wondering what my happiness may cost me though. That is something she has to take into consideration. Well she could always come here to get help or to talk if she wants.i will be a good listener and very understanding because we have the same situation.


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