Soem good & some bad things 4u to comment on -- <P>My wife called me tonight to let me know she wouldn't be late - that's the nice considerate girl I remember.<P>She's also promises to be more discreet with her relationship with OM - no more keeping her mobile phone by the bed waiting for text messages from him, or Instant messaging on the internet while I'm in. Seems a step in the right direction....<P>She insists on wearing a gold bracelet he bought her for Xmas - hard to bear - even though it's nice.<P>He's asked her to go away with him for 4 days, she says she doesn't think she wants to go, but what did i think!!!!! I told her I didn't want her to, but it had to be her choice. What should i say or do? If she doesn't go, I'll make a huge thing of it - take her out & send her flowers, but what if she says she is going? I've taken time off work sick to talk & spend time together, but I'm not happy about doing it so she can bugger off with him while i homesit. HELP!<P>

I don't have advice but hope to get you some by sending this back to the top.<P>Jeff<P>------------------<BR>For God so loved the world that he gave...

I will also move this back to the top because <BR>I do not have any advice. I know that I would <BR>be unable to deal with the situation you are<BR>in having a wife being totally open about and continuing her affair with the OM. I have to admit her comment asking you what you thought about her going away for four days with the<BR>OM was truly amazing. I don't know how you do it but I wish you all the luck just the same.

Hello?!<P>Do any of you guys own a copy of SAA? It's in there! <P>No, it's not easy. Yes, it is insane. No, I have not had to go thru this scenario personally--but the advice IS in the book. And the SAME damn scenario you're going thru! <P>Hey, read your other posts--this same advice is in there, too!<P>Hang in the McBroon--you're doing great whether you believe it or not! Don't let anyone else's amazement at what you're going thru bring you down. Other's have gone thru this before. Other's have had husbands or wives <I>living</I> with OP and having their spouse's say they are no longer in love with them. Things are rough but they could be much worse.<P>REMEMBER THAT! And read your other posts for goodness sake!<P> <BR>L

Leilana - Sorry, I'm maybe asking too much instead of getting on with the job at hand. I read my posts as often as I can get on the PC.<P>I was just struggling with how to handle her asking me what she should do. She came in last night from being with him (she works a business with him), to say she was torn as to whether to go away with him. I don't know what to say, other than it has to be her decision, but I'm finding it hard to bite my tongue.<P>Any specific advice on what I should say?<P>P.S. I'm going to get SAA, and a couple of others too, but wanted to try our library first - moneys tight. Library only opened yesterday after hols, & I took the kids swimming all afternoon so couldn't get then.<P>I imagine it could be worse, I just wonder whether being away from her might help us both see what we are really feeling. It isn't where I want to be, but I'm starting to think maybe the single life won't be that bad. I'm 32, with a good future, and if she doesn't want that with me, maybe my love is better directed somewere else?<P>I'm just sounding off..... OK OK I'll get the book.

WOW!!!! You ARE doing great. She asked you if she could go off with her "friend," leaving you, her husband, alone. She's out of it! Or in it--the "fog," I mean.<P>But you, on the other hand, showed her what a loving person you are by considering her "dilemna" with a level head. That is a point for you. You didn't react in anger. You didn't tell her that she was nuts for even asking YOU what she should do. It proves that you are a strong person.<P>I really don't know what I would do, myself--cry, scream, pack my bags (just what he would expect--and he would a)have a good time laughing at me or b) begin carrying on his "business" behind my back covertly as he did in reality do or c) both.) I am a real baby sometimes.<P>I think that this may be what you want--keep the "friendship" out in the open, rather than secret. If if because a confidence between just the two of them, the relationship may grow stronger. The very fact that your wife seeks your counsel about her friendship and divulges her plans with you about her friend shows that she does consider you a big part of her life yet.<P>I don't know. . .maybe I am just talking out my rear end, here (I am not one to give advice, but I do admire you for your self-control and the love that you maintain for your wayward spouse in light of what she is doing to you brazenly.) <P>Don't feel bad: I don't have my book either--I had one, read it, and left it behind in Japan to come back to the states. Unlike you, I flipped and lost my cool. I left him in a big way--now I can't get back, so who is to know now whether I should have or not. . .water under the bridge, now. . .<P>(Well, I left it on the nightstand table for him, whether he has read it or not, who knows)<P>But anyways--keep up the marvelous work. You should have a lot of hope. Stay strong. Remember to bring your anger HERE and talk about it rather than let her get a good dose--this may be what decides the fate of your marriage<P>And, yeah, I am your same age thereabouts, and single life is not too bad so far for me (OK--give or take, sometimes it downright sucks--I am poor, lonely and a single mom now, but sometimes the freedom is nice, not worth the trade, though). . .but, married life is the ideal. It's what God intended. It is the ultimate sharing of lives, love and human intimacy. So stick to your goal of regaining this.<P>My friend, a beautiful African woman, hads this plaque on her wall: A Ghanian Proverb: The downfall of a nation begins in the homes of it's people. (Don't know why I threw this in here, but I find it interesting.)<p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited January 03, 2001).]

Are you familiar with K and his story? Good illustration of how these principals can work even in severe circumstances...<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/000143.html" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/000143.html</A>

McBroon,<P>Are you asking for advice about what to say to your W about her proposed trip? The answer it is her decision is of course correct. It is! However, she maybe asking you for a different reason. She may be testing to see if you really care any longer. She may be trying to decide if she could even come back to you if she went.<P>I would give her your honest opinion, but you must do it in a non-LB way. That means no judgements of her. Simply state what you feel and how you will feel if she goes. Plan A is about communicating in a fashion that the defenses don't come up. The " Oh Yah, I'll do what I want" responses don't come up.<P>So if she asks again, tell that yes it is her choice. You can do absolutely nothing about it, but you feel ...<P>Hope this helps.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

I'm so sorry to read that your W is thinking of going away with OM. Sounds as if the fog couldn't get much thicker.<P>You know, I'm so sickened over the pain I've caused my sweet husband that I can't stand the sight of myself. I wouldn't have the nerve to continue an A right under his nose.<P>I truly hope your W wakes up soon. I came so close to losing the best thing that ever happened to me. I'll pray for you.

Thanks everyone for your support & comments.<P>Came in from some time with friends last night, and told her that if she felt she needed to go, she could go with my understanding. I told her how i would feel while she was away (sick, hurting) but that I would rather be hurting while she got her thoughts straight than for the rest of my days.<P>She promised to spend the time away doing two things (my request 2 her)....<P>1. To have time to herself to think about her feelings & future, (OM said she could take a walk on the beach anytime she wanted - kind soul).<BR>2. Find out more about OM - his lifestyle and how it would be for for her & the kids if he became her future.<P>I was calm, open & honest, and it seemd to work.<P>I hope she spends the time wisely, it was VERY tough to do this.<P>Let her go with a kiss & a hug.<P>Susie - I hope my W realises what she's risking sooner rather than later, although I'm committed to seeing ti through, the longer it goes on the less I will feel for her. There's only so much anyone can take of this kind of thing. There's a post on here somewhere about forgiving ourselves - the betrayed and the betrayer. I know your H is back, so this is a great opportunity for you both to get it right this time. Stp knocking yourself up, i read in your posts how much you regret your actions, your H has seen that 7 you must both now make up for ost ground. Put it all behind you, talk about the Why's & head on down the road together. You should be together by the sounds of it.<P>Just Learing - <BR>Thanks - this is what i felt i had to do, but needed some confirmation or thoughts on best action. Cheers.<P>Kam6318 - will head over to read this now - thanks for that.<P>Bernzini -<BR>I'm pleased you are OK single, and appreciate your comment that it wasn't worth what you had to give up - I think I agree, though all my friends say I must be stupid for perservereing. I say they too will feel differently should they ever be unfortunate enough to feel this way in the first place.<P>

Just a note - I've read the link for K - wow, that's Plan A & B and all the works there.<P>i thought I was being strong. Anyone reading this would be well advised to go & read it too.<P>McB.

You're showing great courage here, and I know how hard this entire situation is on you. You're doing all the right things . . . I pray that your W will do the same.<P>I'd be happy to respond to her if she wants to post.<P>Hang in there!

I'm sorry that your W's head is in such a thick fog that she can't see clearly. However, I think that your response to her, in a way, gave her the blessing to go ahead and go away with this OM, without having to feel guilty about it.<P>Well, that's how I felt, after reading what you told her. I believe that she will go away with this OM, live this fantasy out (because after all, they are going away on a vacation). Isn't that what affairs are about? Getting away from reality, having fun...a vacation away from the spouse, kids & home-life?<P>You are indeed a strong individual, to have been so tolerant of your W's inconsiderate behavior. I think that when she asked for your opinion, it was a subtle plea from her, that she wants to know that you love her so much, that you don't want her to go away with this OM.<P>Unfortunately, IMHO, I think that the fog will only get thicker because she is continuing this affair, going away on vacation and living out her fantasy.<P>Are you seeking guidance from a counselor yet? If not, then I think it would help you get through these tough times...preferably a therapist who is familiar with Harley's principles.<P>Good luck to you & try to stay strong.

I think that Survivor got it right. How do you think your wife would have acted if you told her you wanted to go away for 4 days with your other woman and then asked your wife what she thought? Now say that your wife said I would not be happy but you could go with her blessing as long as you promise to spend time thinking about it. I would have guessed that you would have expected her to say this is unacceptable behavior and demand that you have respect for her and your marriage. I agree with survivor that you have <BR>given her the green light to indulge herself.<BR>Now she can have sex without the guilt because you have accepted the situation. Do you really think she will return unhappy?<BR>Good luck.

McBroon---just wanted to comment on something you said in this post. You said that the longer it went on, the less you would feel for her. I can attest that this is indeed very, very true. My H has been having A for a year now, and I've known about it for 9 months now. I have started to lose feelings for him, and have even begun to wonder if I love him any more. There has been a huge amount of damage done and the hurt runs very deep.<P>I don't have any advice for you, other than to hang in there and that you are doing a great job.

Good Grief, this has really made me think.<P>I let her go because i felt she needed space, and she says she needs time with him to see how she feels about him.<P>I can see your point, that maybe I should have demanded she have respect for our marriage, but she'll just sneak off & do it anyway. I can't keep my eyes on her all the time, and at least she's being honest.<P>I would have loved to have made demands, but felt that as plan A states no Lovebusting, and that I want an end to the affair for the right reasons, I felt that patience and calm should win the day. <P>Will she come back unhappy? I hope so, either because she didn't enjoy his company (I doubt it), she missed me (maybe), or that she did some thinking and decided she needs to focus on what we've got left here.<P>As I said, there were conditions in my not blowing my top . <P>If she comes back none the wiser, I'll try a different approach if it happens again.<P>She knows I'm struggling with this, and that every move like this she makes is wearing me down.<P>I hope she thinks & learns while she's away.<P>We'll see.<P>I feel that what I've done was the best course of action for me, and so feel OK within myself having done it. If I'd said no, that would have given them something negative about me to dicuss. I don't want her to hate me, but see that i want the best for her.<P>Only time will tell if I'm getting it right or wrong...........

McBroon,<P>Your intentions were good. However, I feel that giving your blessing to your Wife to take her fantasy vacation with OM, is "enabling" her affair.<P>Your wife needs to be reminded that her vacation get-away with this OM is disrespectful to you, your kids (if you have any), your marriage and even to herself.<P>This can be said in a non-lovebusting way, with no demands. She needs to know exactly how you feel about this without sugar-coating it. There should be boundaries.<P>Your wife is going away on a vacation. How can she see if she is going to be happy with OM or not? The only way for that to happen would be if she moved out with him and lived in reality (paying bills, doing his laundry, seeing all is annoying habits, etc. etc.). I doubt very much if she is going to see anything negative about him during a 4-day fun vacation.<P>Do you have any kids? If you do, don't you think that her getting away with OM is disrespectful to them? Your W needs to know this. She needs some kind of wake-up call.<BR>

McBroon---a few more comments after your most recent post. My H did many of the same things by going to live with her for a week, taking time to think, going on business trips with her, etc. I, too, felt that I was doing the right thing by giving him space and time to think. If you feel that you are doing the right thing for your situation, go with your instinct and hopefully things will turn in your way very soon.<P>Now for how my story is ending---just as Survivor has stated, I feel now that I just enabled his affair to go on and allowed him to walk all over me. He knew he could get away with it because I was desperate to keep him in the marriage. In the last couple of days, I am finally standing up for myself and he is starting to see that I mean business when I say that he has to make a decision.<P>This is such a difficult thing---the spouse will no doubt see any request that you make as a LB, but you also have to protect yourself and your children from the incredible amount of disrespect that is being shown to you. Unfortunately, I can't give you any advice because I obviously didn't know how to make this request without it being a demand, so I allowed it to go on. Your original post sent chills down my spine because it reminded me of my situation so much. Being further down the path, I now see what he was indeed doing---having his cake and eating it too.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by McBroon:<BR><B>Good Grief, this has really made me think.</B><P>I hope it has made you rethink.<P>It sounds to me, and I'll bet to your W, that you are condoning her fishing trip here. Is that what marriage is about? Letting your partner test ride other relationships to see if she can upgrade?<P>I think that you have to state the obvious -- I can't and won't stop you. But I think you also have to be honest about the ramifications to your feelings. Will you feel the same about her knowing she did this? <P><B>I can see your point, that maybe I should have demanded she have respect for our marriage, but she'll just sneak off & do it anyway. I can't keep my eyes on her all the time, and at least she's being honest.</B><P>No, she is still cheating, but with a veil of legitimacy now from you.<P>I suspect that you were less than honest about your feelings about this. <BR>

McBroon,<P>I've been thinking about your situation. When is your W planning on leaving?<P>I believe that it still isn't too late to write her a letter to tell her exactly, open, & honestly how you feel about all of this.<P>If you put it down in words, you will give her something to read/look at. This way, you can make sure that you don't leave anything out, you can avoid any sudden outbursts, demands, etc. etc.<P>A letter is good. It will give her something to refer to. It will remind her of how much you love her, but it will give you another chance at reminding her that what she is doing is disrespectful (of course, in a non-lovebusting way).