My W has had an EA with OM for over a year. He lives 1000 miles away. She moved out in early December 2000. I read an e-mail that she wrote to her friend stating that at this time, she plans to go meet OM in about 2 months to find out if she has a future with OM. W friend supports this idea! Don't ask me how I got the e-mail (snooping). OM doesn't seem as eager to have any type of commitment as my W does!<P>My W is confused right now. She told me that some days she wants to come back to me and other days she wants to call it quits!<P>Should I just keep plan Aing and act like I know nothing? W doesn't know I read e-mail. Should I confront her? I think it would be a LB because I'm spying on her! This affair is contained between 4 people me, W, W's friend and OM. Should I say damn the torpedoes and blow this affair wide open for all to see including our parents? I'm shaking right now because I'm scared of them getting together and turning the EA into a PA!<P>Need advise!! Anything!

Forget about the exposer to the parents. If my W and I reconcile, I realize the parents knowing about the OM will only make things worse for us in the long run. My parents especially, would point fingers at my W for years and I don't want that!

Right now, implement the best Plan A that you can, without smothering her. Let her see the "New You" and give her something to think about...which is, exactly what she will be losing if she chooses the OM over you. In the meantime, Plan A will transform you into a better person, with or without your wife in your life.

ditto on survivors comment

I suggest you ckeck out my thread in here - OM has asked my wife to go away.......ther are some good replies from others, and my own thoughts - they may help.<P>Other than that, I would advise Plan A'ing for all you are worth.<P>Is there any way you could meet with the idea that you want an update on how she feels? It would be an opportunity for you to re-affirm your wish to get back together, and to ask how she feels.<P>Don't Lovebust, but ask her how the other person feels, how she feels about him, what she knows, what she's thinking.<P>Be supportive - the new you, and if you know what emotional needs you weren't meeting, now would be the time to start, if you haven't already.<P>Good luck, keep calm, think before you speak & act.<P>McB.

Are you doing a genuine plan B so that she knows what life would really be like without you? If you are separated, it this the time for Plan A or are you enabling her to have her cake and eat it too? I am not at all sure that she appreciates the full consequences of her destructive path.

wesse,<BR>I am not doing a plan B because Steve Harley said plan B was to use total separation and no contact if I started loosing the love for my W. As long as I still love my W and want to reconcile, then plan A is fine.<P>I do feel as if she is having her cake and eating it too! I feel is someways that I'm being strung along until she decides whether to choose me or OM. She wants to meet OM to either get him out of her system or to see if there is a future with him! Problem is that she knows that I am loyal and will be waiting here for her! But I feel like giving her an altimatum; choose me and have a great marriage or choose OM, loosing parents and family and risking a life that may never be with him. If she leaves me, I will tell her parents and family the truth and let them know about OM. Is this vendictive? I don't think so, for the truth shall set you free and I will be free of not telling people the whole truth when they ask whats wrong! Her parents would disown her, especially her dad. I will be damned if I'm not going to tell and let OM slide into my position without the in-laws knowing what kind of person this guy is!!

Ihurt...I can understand your pains. I tell you what, she knows she has you and all of the good stuff you're doing plan A. What she don't know is what the OM can or can't do. <BR>Find another means of confronting her and letting her know of your position, don't LB. Let her know that you're aware of certain things, don't reveal your sources, cause she'll tighteng security and calmly assure her of the work you're doing or will do to meet her needs. <P>Make it clear of the consequences of an affair on the marriage. Try talking her into counseling with you, be calm here,no pressure at all, because a little pressure will push her very far.<P>I know how it feels to be waiting for a decision, its very heart wrenching situation, but keep your head up, you'll be fine. <P>Good Luck

ihurt:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I do feel as if she is having her cake and eating it too! I feel is someways that I'm being strung along until she decides whether to choose me or OM. She wants to meet OM to either get him out of her system or to see if there is a future with him!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's pretty much exactly what's happening. But the real crux is what can YOU do about it? Plan A is a short-term situation that attempts to address problems in the marriage, and to give the wayward spouse hope that the marriage can be saved. The issue with that is that the wayward spouse often won't consider the marriage until AFTER the affair is over. You're pouring your heart and soul into Plan A right now, and you're not seeing any payoff---I'm telling you that this is completely NORMAL. You'll see the payoff after the affair is dead, and your wife returns and gets through withdrawal. You're planting the seeds for success now---and with seedlings, you need to be careful about not stomping them down.<P>On to your issue. You seem to be upset because you're snooping on your wife. While this snooping does provide you information on your wife's situation---does it help YOU? I don't think it does. You know she's having an affair. You know that she's a conflicted, lying "fence-sitter". All you're doing by reading her email is agitating yourself---you're draining your love for your spouse, by doing something that's preventable.<P>If you weren't snooping, you just wouldn't know what was going on. You'd use your imagination, but I'm guessing that the overall effect of not having your wife's emails would be for you to retain love for her longer. And I'm pretty sure that Steve will tell you the same thing (I still here the echo's in my ears... ).<P>If you confront, you'll end up lovebusting (the invasion of privacy is a lovebuster). Your wife's affair is going to end (based on the OM's lack of real interest---and statistics to back this up). When it's over, what will she remember about you? The loyal, devoted, patient husband who did his best to weather this horrible period of insanity in the marriage?? Or a manipulative, sneaky, lying person who violated her trust and tried his best to end her "true love".<P>You know which side of this you want to be on. Exhibit behaviors to back it up. You can "out" her affair when you officially go to Plan B. And at that point, the two of you can decide how to handle parents with an attempt to reach a decision through the POJA. That way, you'll be considering her feelings through the separation process.

You have a different understanding of Plan A & B. Plan A was easier for me during my h's ea because I didn't know about ow. I believed my h's story that he was unhappy with our marriage. I believed that I just didn't measure up as his wife.<P>He said he would stay for several months to try to salvage our marriage. Actually, he treated me quite well during that time , but he was buying time while trying to figure out how to best deal with the huge consequences of his plans for separation. He had no genuine intentions of working on the marriage - he was just avoiding conflict while he waited for his timing to be right. <P>Despite the circumstances, Plan A was good for us, however, because it gave h a chance to see that I really was a good wife when treated well.<P>If I had done all the Plan A "stuff" while seeing him choose op or while seeing him deliberate between us, I think the pain and damage to my "heart" would've been too great to allow for recovery of our marriage once he came to his senses.<P>When I discovered the ea and it ended, I made it clear that, if he dallied and pined too long, that I would not have him. Second fiddle was a position that I would not accept. Likewise, I think that you need to consider just how much you can take from your w before you reach the point that saving the marriage is saving something that you can no longer live with. I think that is the reason that the Harleys suggest Plan B - so that you are not emotionally destroyed by your spouse while your spouse is in the fog. I think Harley quite clearly says that Plan A doesn't work if there is an op STILL IN CONTACT WITH YOUR SPOUSE.<P>Also, I am not sure that I agree with others about not seeking the support of your families in reaching out to your W. I do not advocate telling family and friends for revenge (although I absolutely agree with you that they should be told the truth for the sake of truth if you remain separated). <P>For 4 months after my h told me that he was going to leave in 4 months, I confided in no one. He was left to deal with the fog with no counsel from anyone except me (to whom he was NOT listening) and ow. We all know how that works. They were left to fabricate this extreme fantasy that was taking them in deeper and deeper.<P>I think you should consider confiding in some family members or friends who may be able to draw you w back toward reality before things go too far. This advice is offered from one who handled it all wrong. I listened and did what my h wanted when he was in no position to judge. We are now some time into successful recovery, and he often laments that he did not talk to someone about the situation before he allowed it to go as far as it did.

wesse:<P>I'd like to share my experiences with this Plan A/B stuff with you (and others), in "correcting" a couple things you pointed out in your post (which was excellent, BTW).<P>Although you might have been exhibiting "Plan A" behaviors during your spouse's affair, the bottom line, from Harley's perspective, is that <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> is an approach to respectfully negotiate the end to an active affair. Plan A does include the elements of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A>, but it's SPECIFICALLY for dealing with an active affair.<P>The reason I mention this is that you state that you think Harley says:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think Harley quite clearly says that PlanA doesn't work if there is an op STILL IN CONTACT WITH YOUR SPOUSE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's not true (although Plan A often may not be "successful" in ending the affair). Harley states that RECOVERY cannot occur if the spouse and OP are still in contact (as a general assumption---there are a few cases that do work).<P>Plan A: respectfully negotiate an end to the affair. It's a short term project, because<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That reasonable time is typically 3-6 months. But you're right in that the "pain to your heart" is the limiting time in Plan A---you don't want to go so far as to end up hating your spouse and ending any chance for reconciliation.<P>In general, Steve Harley's recommendations about family are to leave them out of the loop until absolutely necessary. The only people you should share this pain with are your counselor, doctor, and perhaps one or two close same-sex friends who can support your efforts.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited January 05, 2001).]

K - I do feel bad about snooping! I really hate doing it! But, my W doesn't tell me everything and I don't want to be blind sided. Snooping also confirms my suspicions, which seem to be right most of the time.<P>Wesse - I would like to confide in a family member about the OM, but I don't know who that could be. I did tell one of my W's friends about the OM and she won't try to sway my W either way, just being supportive!<P>I do LOVE my W dearly even when she's doing things that hurt me! I must be a glutten for punishment or my pain threshhold is really high! I know I won't be able to take the punishment forever and something will have to give, one way or another.<P>Thanks for everone's replies!!

IHurt & K, <BR>My responses are based on things my h has repeatedly said in conversations after he came through withdrawal. I don't really see the difference in saying Plan A won't work if contact continues and saying go to Plan B. If Plan A won't work, shouldn't you go to Plan B? I'm confused.....<P>I probably was also confused about the facts. I thought that IHurt and w had been separated for 2 months. In accord with Harley or not, I believe that when an affair continues, the bs should take whatever steps he can to end that relationship. I do know that this does make recovery more likely for the ws and more painful for the bs (from my personal experience). <P>I believe that the typical ws is incapable of rational thought while consumed by the addiction of an affair when emotional attachment is involved. Unless something intervenes to end the affair (whether it be conflict w/ affair partner, abandonment by affair partner, financial stress, social stress, illness, etc), the 2 affair partners are likely to carry on for some time before waking up. I have seen too many divorces not to believe this. Also, I think we delude ourselves if we believe that the 2 affair partners would never be good partners under other circumstances.<P>I too would avoid using a big stick to end the affair if there were any reason to believe that it would end otherwise. However, excalation seems to be the case here. IHurt, I think perhaps you should focus on what made w unhappy with her life before the affair - or perhaps she was playing with fire on the internet and got caught up and burned. <P>My h was depressed about his stage in life and about certain aspects of his career. He was also somewhat jealous what he perceived as my success in career and family matters. He found an instant cure in the adoration of ow. If you can find out what triggered your w's involvement, that may help you help her.<P>IHurt, my thinking about family is that they obviously know something is amiss if you've been separated for 2 months. Therefore, I don't think the caution against informing/involving them necessarily outweighs the benefit from giving your w someone to talk to and to answer to besides you and om. This comes from my h who says that he thinks his failure to confide in some other responsible caring person was one of the many big mistakes he made. <P>A good counsellor would also be my first recommendation. However, if that fails to get results, then I'd go to family. Some of us actually do listen to the opinions of our family - particularly if the family is more interested in our happiness than in just being judgmental. I don't know her family, but their nature and influence is something I would definately factor in. <P>Different strokes work for different folks. If what you've been doing isn't working, move on to something else!

"she plans to go meet OM in about 2 months to find out if she has a future with OM." <P>In my opinion by allowing yourself to be emotionally abused by your wife is to loose your self respect and dignity. Both of you need to be honest with each other. If the marriage is important than there must be a commitment to work on improving it. Respect only comes from not allowing yourself to be used.