So for those who know my story, it looks like the time has come for me to make a decision. I spoke with a Deacon at church, now I am not going to pretend I am a devout catholic. I am a catholic, I have some problems with the teachings of the church, but for the most part I am right there with them. I am battling right now with the fact that I lose no standing in the church if/when I get a D but if I decide to remarry I am now an official outcast. No communion, no more sacraments...nothing. On my death bed someone get's to say a prayer and send me off...no last rites. I asked the Deacon why it is that that in the 10 commandments it discusses adultry as bad but nothing about divorce...yet if I continue to live in misery like this God is OK, but if I find happiness, I can participate I just don't get to be part of the "group" I am having a big problem right now with this...H has an affair, now abandons me and I get punished by my religion...unless I go through an anullment process...why can't I get 10 Hail Mary's I have been trying to put this marriage back together for over a year now...where does the pain stop and the justice begin... <BR>In my H religion, he just moves right on...no worries for him...marry who ever you want...not me, I get to wear the scarlet D on my chest and heaven forbid I decide to try and find happiness, it will have to be without the church... I was better off living with him...sure it was in sin, but apparently that is treatable with some Glory Be's <BR>Am I going to hell now for writing this? <P>

cpickel,<P>Don't lose heart...<BR>...you're on the right track!<P>I'm actually looking forward to the annulment process...<BR>I'm still in Plan A...<BR>...my divorce should be final (in 2 to 8 weeks)...<BR>...and unlike what most believe on the forum... for me...<BR>...<B>it's <I>NOT</I> going to bring me final closure</B>!<P>The annulment is going to give it(<B>closure</B>) to me!<P>I am glad that my faith takes these extra precautions to really value marriage as a <B>sacrament</B>...<BR>And to show the <I>priceless</I> value of family...<BR>The forum in which a married couple become co-creators...<BR>...whether there are children or not!<BR>The forum in which we are to learn about the very difficult idea of "unconditional love".<P>Society/courts/TV/media make the institution of marriage a farce... at best.<BR>(Think of the new FOX series "Temptation Island"... <B>YUCK!!!!</B>...) BTW: I'm going to block that channel and all FOX channels from the family TV!<P>Our faith (the Catholic faith) says this institution is not just valued...<BR>...but valued so much so...<BR>...that the validity of this sacrament... is assumed above all else!<BR>...that the love that God has for us...<BR>......is what we are expected to show to our spouse!!!<P>Please check out these books(booklets)...<BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089243810X" TARGET=_blank><B>With Open Arms :</B> Catholics, Divorce, & Remarriage</A> by John Hosie <BR>(excellent for understanding how the Church isn't here to punish you...<BR>...how you are not thrown aside<BR>...and gives you hope for almost any grounds of annulment (not the same as divorce)<P><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/006250990X" TARGET=_blank><B>Annulment :</B> Your Chance to Remarry Within the Catholic Church</A> by Joseph P. Zwack ...<BR>...an excellent "how to" book to obtain the annulment<P>Both... emphasize the importance of the <B>healing</B> process the annulment represents.<P>Actually...<BR>...if you really sit down and think about it a little...<BR>...it is <B>so.....</B> in line with Dr. Harley's principles...<BR>...a true and helpful ending to a <B>Plan B</B>.<P>It is an honest recognition...<BR>(that you'll <B>NEVER</B> get from a divorce judge)<BR>...that one of you(either you or your spouse or both) did not have what it takes to understand what a marital covenant is...<P>Does it take time...<BR>...yep...<BR>...from 6 to 24 months...<BR>...(so in line with the Dr. Harley's Plan B and post Plan B)...<BR>......it's like they asked Dr. Harley himself!<BR>A perfect "time" to start/continue/end a Plan B...<BR>...with no worries of a "rebound relationship"<BR>...full communion with your other Catholic friends<BR>...honor... to you!<BR>...humility... to build your relationship with God (something all of us are missing to one degree or another)<P>Do check out (if you haven't already) my post on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/011976.html" TARGET=_blank>Saints</A>...<BR>...for some... it has given inspiration!<P>Cost...<BR>...about 4-8 hours equivalent of a good lawyer's fees<BR>...(very cheap considering how much it relieves your own conscience)...<BR>...(very cheap compared to some professional counseling)...<BR>...and they(the tribunal) spend alot more than 8 hours<BR>...and if you don't have the money...<BR>......arrangements can be made!<P>After my divorce...<BR>...I do plan on posting again on just this topic!<BR>...and yes... very enthusiastically!<P> <P>Jim

What? Couldn't hear you, my rosaries were clacking too loud. Oh, yes, you asked for Catholics. I'm one.<P>Following Jim, I also have talked to a priest who is on the tribunal. He happened to be hearing confessions, and I mentioned my problems with our marriage and my spiritual state (I ruminate on them even during the consecration of the host and think hateful angry thoughts) and I felt guilty about that. whew. And he told me that reviewing anullments is his job. And to work on our marriage. That most of their requests are from American couples. I have also received different opinions from two other priests I spoke to about the state of my soul as we go through this part of our marriage. They told me 1. kick him out and insist he get into counseling with you and the second one said Why do you stay with him? <P>I'm still not ready to give up or do drastic measures like file papers. <P>We aren't married in the church, so annullment isn't an option for us.<P>Why not look into it, and in the process learn more about our faith. I believe God has allowed this to happen to us because he wants us to need him, and to seek him out. <P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess<p>[This message has been edited by Bellevue (edited January 04, 2001).]

Another Catholic from the wrong side of town.<P>I just wanted to thank you NSR for your very informative response - I pray I will never need that information - but I have wondered about the annulment process. Thanks for clearing some of that up for me.

My wife wife was married before. Our preist told us that since she was not married in a catholic church and without a preist particpating in the marriage, her marriage was not valid in the eyes of the church. We did not know this before we had planned our elopement by justice of the peace. Years later our marriage was blessed in our church. We are both active in our church. I feel the church wants to be sure all possible ways of saving the marriage are tried. It shouldn't be easy to end a marriage, and move on to next one.

Catholic born and raised with 15 years of Catholic schools under my belt. I love the Catholic religion and miss the Latin Masses and the Nuns. <P>Annulment is an option to consider.<P>As a Catholic, I am also a Christian and have been brought up to believe that God is a merciful God. I have always hit a snag with some of these laws as absolutes because they are man made laws of the Church...not God's laws.<P>God hates divorce, but he knows what happened in your marriage, between you and your spouse, and He knows what is in your heart. He knows who is responsible for this mess and I hardly think you would be held accountable or denied the gifts of heaven and God's mercy if you were to find love again and remarry.<P>Just my opinion.<P>Catnip =^^=

Thanks everyone. I was feeling a bit frustrated yesterday. Taking the first step towards my new life (alone as it seems) was tough. I have a lot of guilt and shame, although in my heart I know I have done and tried to do all that I could to save this marriage, it is time I turn that energy to saving me. I feel alone and and while divorce is very common in our society, it is not in my family or circle of friends. I will be it. <P>I appreciate the kind words and the references, I will get the books. <P>I guess until yesterday, I just really believed a miracle would happen. But it is time to take care of me. <BR>Sorry for bashing so hard...

cpickel -<P>It's never too late for a miracle, so keep praying. I think God answers all of our prayers one way or another, and in his time, not ours.<P>I'm in a weekly Bible study, and we talked about prayer and why sometimes it seems like God isn't answering our prayers. But, remember, he's our father, he has a plan for us, he knows everything and everything is possible through him. But, sometimes, while it may seem that God isn't answering our prayers, performing miracles in our lives - he has a plan, he knows what is good for us, he is working in our lives.<P>Anyway, sometimes God just knows more than we do - what's best for us. It's like a child going to her father and saying - please give me a knife so that I can play with it. The child sees the knife as something fun to play with, something good, but the father knows the potential for harm and that's it's not safe for a child to play with a knife - so he doesn't give it to the child. The child feels as if the father doesn't hear her, or love her, or care for her, but he does. The father knows what is best.<P>God is working in your life. You may not know what the future brings - none of us do - but he has a plan for you. So, keep praying that his will for your life be done and that you be able to accept what ever comes your way.<P>Take care of yourself and treat yourself well.

You know it is funny. I am starting to see a lot of things differently since I have started down this path. I was talking to my neighbor and she and I were talking about random things, she is 3 months pregnant now and was saying the I needed to have a playmate for her new baby. I told her that my H and I are separated, and so we got to talking a bit. It was funny. She said that her first impression of my H was that he was very materialistic. It was funny. When we married, he was not at all. He lived in a rundown rental, we ate at taco bell and wal mart was our favorite outing. since we have done well financially he will not wear anything less than polo or armani. don't get me wrong, but while I saw this happening, it was not something that I had processed internally. I am quite the opposite. I joke that someday I will own a piece of Tiffany jewelry but that is because I love jewelry and I loved the Movie. It's a joke...it's like having that dream...growing up dad would joke that he was going to spend out college money on a ferrari...so we used to buy him ferrari cars, models etc. it was fun. my family gives me costume jewelry in little blue boxes..it's fun...I am not materialistic. So the more and more I see him the less and less I like him. He is so far from who he was when we married that he almost disguists me. It's all image...the neighbor said that she would never have guessed that we were having problems at the halloween party. I am a real person of substance, he has become very shallow.<BR>Maybe this is what I am ment to see...or process...