OK, I know the rollercoaster goes up and down, but when it is down, you know how it is. Went for breakfast today. My wife was a grouch for the most part. I don't like what I see. I think her attitude is not good for the kids. Is that common for WSs?<P>My wife left her car at my place and we drove together to meet her Mom. All the way back, my daughter who is almost 3, was crying saying "I don't want to go to Mommy's place, I want to stay with Daddy"....she wouldn't let her mom get her out of the Van and into the car. I had to do it. But then I feel like the bad guy, because I just want to take them inside with me, but I can't. This stinks.<P>And furthermore, my wife has a habit of not properly tightening her car seat straps...and doesn't seem to care. She is reckless. I am going to have to do something about this. I just don't get how someone can be so selfish and reckless. Someone that was such a great mother with very high morals, then turns into this hurricane.<P>Obviously, I just need to vent right now. I'm going to get out of the house and go get some stuff to fix my garage door openers...they move too much. Might go out with friends tonight.<P>Maybe my wife is so nasty sometimes because my kids wine about being with her....I don't know. Surely that must bother her...it would drive me crazy. She is acting like a spoiled child now, not wanting anyone to tell her anything. I seriously wonder sometimes if this is just her....she has the stubborn streak anyway....can she hit rock bottom and start a process of recovering and getting honest with herself?<P>Right now, despite the obstacles to a potential recovery, I just want the opportunity to consider one with her, then we can worry about the individual items. But her behavior is getting to me and I keep wondering if there is hope for her to change her reckless and impulsive tendencies. Are they just magnified because of where her mind is now? I hope so.<P>OK, that is enough.<P>I got a fruit cup in the restaurant, and as far as I know, pineapple is supposed to be yellow....some of mine was dark greenish/brown, and the melon was all mushy. I suggested it not be on the bill, as it was not edible, and you should have seen the look I got. Like I was some kind of alien. Felt like saying, "don't look at me, the alien is sitting right across from me"..... <P>Thanks for reading....posts seem to come in a barrage....there is either none for a bit, or a bunch close together...depending on the alien syndrome.<P>

She's grouchy & grumpy bcs she is conflicted...perfectly normal behavior for WS.<P>I wouldda done the same thing with the fruit cup, BTW.<P>Hang in there--<P>Kathi

Rick - it has to weigh on her to hear her kids say they don't want to go with her. As much as it also torments the kids, this is good for you. They realize who offers the stability they need. Keep being a good Dad and it will come back to you.<P>She is not the same woman you once knew. Go read you own post to Goochy (I think) about the parallel with an alcoholic. You'll answer your own question.<P>That was Canadian pineapple.<P>Dave

Kathi and WAT,<P>Thanks. I know what I wrote to Goochy, and yes, it answers my own question. You know when you write this stuff what the answers are, because you saw last years exams and they are the same. For some reason, it has to be done.<P>If it was Canadian Pineapple, it would be frozen. We are having alot of snow this year.<P>Hey, guess what, my wife just called and asked if I wanted to go to the museum with her and the kids this afternoon (for the kids). The kids wanting to see me must get to her. Although it doesn't say anything for her wanting to be with me, it is good.

Hi Rick,<P>Oh yes, my friend, the grouchiness is definitely normal. In fact, for several weeks before dday, I was at an absolute loss at to why my normally sunshiney husband had turned into a cranky, ill-tempered stranger. Like Kathi mentioned, it is conflict. Reread the part of Harley's stuff about the three stages and you will be able to identify when she goes from conflict to withdrawal and back again.<P>I know it's hard, but hang in there. YOU are doing the right thing for yourself and your children. No matter what your wife chooses to do, keep doing those right things. Sometimes it is a comfort to be able to look at yourself in the mirror with a clear conscience!<P>Peppermint

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick37:<BR><B>OK, I know the rollercoaster goes up and down, but when it is down, you know how it is. Went for breakfast today. My wife was a grouch for the most part. I don't like what I see. I think her attitude is not good for the kids. Is that common for WSs?<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, I am a WS. My attitude during the A, was that I was a grouch. For the most part, I am not grouchy now. One thing that would never happen in my lifetime, and I can speak for my H, is that if I left the home with the intention of carrying on with the OM, there would be no breakfast meetings. There would be no contact between him and I regarding the children.<P>Not to say that you can't be amicable. Being amicable means not bashing either person. Not speaking negatively about their mother or father. Of course, this is just my opinion. <P>It would be too painful for both parties to continue the relationship. If you couldn't agree prior to the ending of the relationship, once the party moves out of the house, why would you think it would be ok? Maybe I'm missing the boat, I don't know.<P>I was married before, and my ex is the last person I would want to see. I also come from a "broken home", and my parents were cordial, but, my step father was always a presence and so was my step mom, or his gf or whomever was his latest. <P>I think that sometimes the two parents continuing to be together, while apart, just for the sake of the kids, just ends up confusing them. I remember, when I was little, I had to go for my weekend visits with my dad, and I did not like it one bit. I wanted to stay in the comfort of my house. Sure, I missed my dad, but, familiarity means a lot to a youngster. <P>Rick, I know you miss your wife, and the family you once had, I can understand your pain, but, you are powerless over your wife and what she did, and continues to do. <P>PJ<P>

hey Rick,<BR>Good question on the Grouchiness.. I also ask myself if he is so sure of all the decisions he has made why the anger and outburst? I am sure it is because of the uncomfortable feelings they have about what they are doing. In my case H left and started PA 3 weeks after he chose to walk away from his 13 relationship with me. He really has no ties to any of our friends, issues with kids, and of course he is not even begun to deal with our marriage.<BR>He has chosen to do a geographical change and the reality to that is he is still the same man... He has changed his surroundings, his friends, his Lover but he is still him.<BR>Even in the fog I am sure reality creeps in every once in awhile and he has to deal with it. Anger is his only outlet. He cannot talk to OW about it and cannot talk to me. No friends to support him so he is on his own. We all come her to vent and work out out problems and I know I have a good support system with my friends, family and my councelor. Could you imagine not being able to talk to anyone? I am sure they are exploding inside and who better to take it out on then us. Do you think OP will tolerate it? NO!!! They are trapped...<P>My H and I have no contact other then kids now they are not seeing him so this is gonna make it hard to Plan A, but on the other hand I feel much better with no contact right now. He is going to have to initiate it from this point on. When he does I will plan A but I cannot and do not have any reason for contact right now.<P>They want to have the OP in their lives and go about it like nothing has changed. Well reality is that they cannot have it both ways. My H has given up friends, family,social events we attended, trips, financial freedom, and now even his kids. This is what he was acustomed to for 13 years and as much as he complained about it when he had it. The real issue is he viewed it differently due to his problems. Now he has nothing but OW.. That can only be fun for so long. I am sure he has issues and he has to suffer, it would be nice if he could take it out on me but I refuse to allow it so let her deal with it.<P>Do you honestly think your wife can look at you and not feel hurt, or guilt for what she is doing to you. We all know that anger is not an emotion it is a reaction to many other emotions. when you are not happy with yourself and your situation you become angry(Grouchy).. I do not take it personal cuz I know why he does it. I just choose not to deal with it now.<P>Hang in there I am sorry any of us have to deal with this crap, however we are all becoming stronger. Our spouses cannot possibly emotionally grow at this point due to the Fog and the short live reality checks they have to deal with. Someone once told me that when an alcoholic starts drinking they do not grow emotionally.. We are growing they and becoming stronger and they resent that. They would love for us to treat them badly and lash out at them. this would enable them to live guilt free about the decisions they make.<P>Ok this is long enough.. Bye<BR>Diana

Rick;<BR>You did the right thing about the fruit-cup. Yuck. Old, flabby, and sholdn't have been served to you. Hope they took it off your bill.<P>I don't know your legal status, but unless you & your W have a formal, court-approved visitation & custody agreement, then don't torture your 3-year old with forced time with your W.<BR>What's the point?<P>If you really feel like your W's recklessness is extending to how she is able to care for your children, then re-focus yourself onto what's best for them, and quit worrying about whether or not this "spoiled brat" "hurricane" WS might see it as a love-buster. You won't give a damn about LBs if one of your children suffers injury because your W can't take the time to get them into their safety-seats correctly.<P>I wish you the best, but man, you have to put the childrens' needs WAAAAY ahed of ur WS's at this point. <BR>

Hi Rick,<P>I don't have much to add to the good advice you got here, but I did want to comeover and lend some support. <BR>I agree on the grouchy/alien thing. My H goes into that every couple of weeks. You know, it's all a choice. Instead of dealing with all the crazy feelings she's having right now, she gets angry at you. Why? because you are an easy target. She knows you will not strike back because of your desire to get back together. Think about it. One minute she doesn't want to be around you, the next she is calling for a date. Even if it is under the guise of "for the children". Let me tell you, my H would have NEVER asked me to do anything with him and the kids. He would have just handed them off to me and left the house. Even at school funtions he did not sit next me. She's confused and trying to figure it out. She's not sure what she should do about you when there is this other guy. She has feelings for you and feelings for him. That's why your Plan A is so important. <P>Regarding your fruit cup, I bet a chocolate desert would never turn colors or wilt.

Thanks for the advice and thoughts. Keeping busy with cleaning today. Now that is exciting!

Well when you are done you can head over here I have lots of cleaning and laundry for ya. lol.....<P>Have fun!!<BR>Diana