Ivory, you wrote:<P>"If possible, it sure would be wonderful if the woman who's already your wife also were to become your lover, the person you can't wait to see at the beginning and end of the day, the one you laugh easily with, have interesting conversations with, enjoy going places with and the one who holds the bag when you bag the leaves...."<P>Oh, hon, don't you see? You *can* have that! But you can't have it with your W right now. Why? Because you let an outsider take over those roles. Let your W be the one to be all of those things to her - tell her what you need from her and how you want to feel about her. Don't make her compete. Give her back the incredible honor of letting her be everything the XOW was to you, and you will be just fine.<P>prayers,<P>belld

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by burnedspouse:<BR><B>The truth is is that Everyone is trying to be sincere and objective, but some are using Ivory to let off some of their own steam to their WSs, and I think it has been highly repetitive and demeaning.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, maybe we are looking at the same situation and seeing differnet things. We are questioning his motives, and you are questioning ours. It probably isn't constructive.<P>I agree that Ivory stood up to it well, and I think he learned some things that he may not have from a handful of friendly supportive messages.<P>Anyway, my thoughts are with him and his wife.<P>Mike

Mike, I only hope that Ivory won't learn in *retrospect* what we are trying to impart. The reason why I pointed out that I felt Ivory was p-whipped into confession by the OW was because it certainly does seem that way, doesn't it? If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck ...<P>I don't know why I get such an uneasy feeling about this, but I do. I frankly don't see this EMR ending for some time ... I see it folding out like the first case study in Harley's SAA.<P>I hope Ivory's W is able to find this board or a board like it to find support, when she finds out. When I found out, I was practically suicidal.<P>Prayers, everyone, prayers ...<P>belld

[QUOTE]Originally posted by belldandy:<BR><B>The reason why I pointed out that I felt Ivory was p-whipped into confession by the OW was because it certainly does seem that way, doesn't it? If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck ...</B><P>I think you and I saw this the same way. The head long rush to confession after all this time, coinciding with his lover's marriage teetering, left me wondering about what he really hoped would happen. Whether he was trying to open a door to a rejuvenated marriage or precipitate a severance that would facilitate his relationship with the OW and his tottering marriage.<P>As Ivory admitted, he himself was conflicted about this.<P>I would have liked to have seen a lot more questions about counseling, her possible reactions, and what she needed from him. <P>None of this is personal, I would take the same stance with anyone in those circumstances asking for advice. It is just logical, Business 101 -- What do you want out of the meeting? What is your goal? Put yourself on the other side on the table and anticipate the other party's reactions and questions. <P>I am normally a very tactful and mellow person communication-wise, but I find that the people that helped me in MarriageBuilders..Karenna, JL, K, NSR, and many others, did so not merely by offering support and education, but also by bluntly challenging my statements and actions and making me think. When someone is in the fog, I try to use those tactics, because they were so effective with me, and if they offend some, I apologize. <P>Anyway, my thoughts and prayers are with Ivory and his W.<P>

YOu know, Mike, I was wondering about that. Your posts here have sounded a bit different. When I first started coming here, I got a lot of help from your posts. You were always a bit more gentle. I get it now.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cleopatra:<BR><B>YOu know, Mike, I was wondering about that. Your posts here have sounded a bit different. When I first started coming here, I got a lot of help from your posts. You were always a bit more gentle. I get it now.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I guess this is more documented on the EN board, but lately I have had some great progress with my W. So when I look back at all the wasted effort I put forth over the past year, I can see clearly where I was off track on my methods and attitudes. When I see it in others, I just want to shake them <P>