Btw, I changed my handle again. First I was SadnLonely, then I changed it to NoLongerSadnLonely, but that was just too darn long so now I changed it to Anastasia. Whew.<P>I just found out I'm a co-dependant. <P>Is anyone else out there? What helps. How did you get stronger?<P>Look what I found. I fit the description pretty well.<P> <BR>CO-DEPENDENCY <BR>By now, many people have heard the term "co-dependency". That is because the syndrome of co-dependency is so widespread, and it appears with ever increasing frequency. What is co-dependency, exactly? And why is it harmful? Why should we care about this strange sounding phenomenon? <BR>Co-dependency is actually an umbrella term; it represents an entire range of feelings, beliefs about ourselves, behaviors and symptoms. The main characteristic is a BIG focus on another person. This is usually our loved one – spouse, significant other, lover, boyfriend/girlfriend. But a person who is co-dependent often is focused on EVERYBODY else, rather than on her/himself. For example, when going out to a restaurant with a group, everyone might be trying to decide on where to go. The co-dependent person will demur, saying, "I don’t care, anywhere is ok with me." While this can be a very useful strategy in a group and make getting places easier, for the co-dependent, this lack of decision-making ability and knee-jerk compliance is a big problem. The co-dependent becomes so compliant and passive, eager to please the others that s/he really does forget to know what s/he wants/likes/prefers!! <P>Typically, the co-dependent person came from a dysfunctional home in which their emotional needs were not met. Their parents were not able to provide the attention, warmth and responsiveness which kids need in order to feel that their needs count. So, they grew up feelings that their needs did NOT matter, that their desires were unimportant, that they themselves were 2nd class citizens. Over time, the co-dependent person actually FORGETS what her or his needs, desires, feelings about things even are! In one cartoon which captures this dynamic, the husband and wife are looking at each other over their menus in a restaurant. The husband says to the wife, "I forget, which one of us doesn’t like fish?" <P>Of course, as kids, we try and try to get the response we need from our parents...at least until we give up completely. But we remain always drawn to that same sort of familiar person...an emotionally unavailable person whom we can try to get love from, whom we can try to change. The need to re-play the childhood drama and TRY, TRY, TRY to achieve a different ending is so intense, that it determines even the type of person the co-dependent is drawn to! A person who is kind, stable, reliable and interested would not be attractive, typically, to the co-dependent person...they would appear "boring." Having received very little nurturing, the co-dependent tries to fill this unmet need vicariously, by becoming a care-giver, especially to any person who appears in some way needy. <P>Many consequences flow from this sorry state of affairs. For one, co-dependents become addicted to emotional pain and to unhealthy relationships. They are drawn to people who are not available to them, or who reject them or abuse them. They often develop unhealthy relationships that eventually become unbearable. Because relationships hurt so much, co-dependents are more in touch with the dream of how the relationship COULD be, rather than the reality of the situation. <P>The co-dependent is often immobilized by romantic obsessions. They search for the "magical quali" in others to make them feel complete. They might idealize other people and endow them with powerful symbolism. <P>In the relationship, the co-dependent will do anything to keep it from dissolving. This is because s/he is terrified of abandonment, the same psychic abandonment s/he felt as a kid when the parents were not there. So nothing is too much trouble, takes too much time or is too expensive if it will "help" the person the co-dependent is involved with. Co-dependents are willing to take more than 50% of the responsibility, guilt and blame in any relationship (one person told me that when people bumped into her, she was the one who said, "I’m sorry.") <P>Accustomed to lack of love in a relationship, co-dependents are willing to wait, hope, and try harder to please. At the same time, they have a desperate need to control the relationship. This is because the need to exact the missing love and security s the foremost motivation in any relationship for a co-dependent. Co-dependent people mask these efforts to control people and situations as "being helpful." In fact, attempts to "help" other people, when these others are adults, almost always have elements of control in them. <P>The paradox here is that co-dependents really fear relationships, because of their bad track record at home! But they continually search for them. In the relationship, they fear abandonment and rejection, or they are chronically angry. But outside of a relationship, they feel empty and incomplete. This is because their self-esteem is critically low, and deep inside, there is some sort of belief that they do not deserve the love they seek, they do not deserve to be happy. Rather, they must work to earn the right to be happy...and of course, they never win. <P>By being drawn to people with problems that need fixing, or by being enmeshed in situations that are chaotic, uncertain and emotionally painful, they avoid focusing on their responsibility to themselves. While constantly seeking intimacy with another person, the "desperate" quality of their needs makes true intimacy impossible. In trying to conceal the demanding-ness from themselves and others, they grow more isolated and alienated from themselves and from the very people they long to be close to! They may be predisposed emotionally and often biochemically to becoming addicted to drugs, alcohol, and/or certain foods, especially sugary ones. They may have a tendency toward episodes of depression, which they try to forestall through the excitement provided by unstable relationships. <P>No doubt about it, co-dependency can be a serious, even fatal addiction. Most of us have some of these characteristics, at least at times. And we have to ask what can be done about it? Fortunately, there is hope for the person caught in the trap of co-dependent relationships/personality traits. Recovery from co-dependency is much like recovery from any other addiction: it takes time, commitment, and a willingness to do the work<P>

Anastasia,<P>The only way you're truly "co-dependent", as the term was originally defined, is if you're in a relationship with someone who is is an addict (alcohol, drugs, etc). Then you're in a situation that can be dangerous---because meeting a addict's needs is like pouring water through a sieve---they never "fill up".<P>Harley's very much against the expansion of the co-dependancy movement into relatively normal relationships, as he writes in this <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_cod.html" TARGET=_blank>article</A>. Read it and see what you think.<P>

K-your analogy is too minor to be considered codependent. Harley may have his own views on codependency, but he may not be on target. I have spent 6 months in CoDA meetings and in a coda 12 step and it has done me a world of good. I believe that Harley never went to one, and the huge spectrum of prblems and causes of codependence.<P>Admittedly, I am fairly minor in the league of others I have met, but it helped me be patient with my H's obesession with the OW. It taught me how to have confindence where there was never any before. It taught me to let go of some things and give them to God. I am becoming a better mother, because I am now aware what kind of behavior produces the codependent personality. I was able to forgive my parents after 25 years of parenting that led to many of my current behaviors. <P>Codependency is not all about you one relationship with your S, it is about all relationships with everyone, newly met or an old friend or relative. It is about how to have healthy relationships without putting up walls or inmeshment.<P>Anastasia-I freaked out at firsst because it made me think my whole life was a lie. But as I continued to go to meeetings and did the book work, I realized it is about becoming a strong and independent you. Meeting all people on equal levels, and showing respect for yourself without the fear of what others think. Their thoughts of you should not determine you self worth, only your opinion should do that. It is about not only feeling safe, but being safe emotionally. <P>These are all good things.<P>I have written a few things on it, look up some of my past posts or responses.(Since Aug 2000)

Thank K and BurnedSpouse.<P>My H does have a drinking problem but it does not affect his work and such.<P>Before I married him I don't feel I was a co-dependant. I had a wonderful life and did very well for myself.<P>Things were not like this AT ALL until he had an EA a year and a half ago. Our relationship was pretty much on an even keel. During his EA he became the most hurtful hateful person you could ever imagine. I did some pretty crappy things back to him. Things are much better now. However, now I feel that I'm acting like that co-dependant description.<P>I don't know why????? He is a HUGE taker now. I shouldn't be feeling like a Co-D. I have my own career, I'm proud of myself, its just now I get so inscure about this marriage.<P>And K, you are so right, he never does "fill-up" and things just never seem to be good enough sometimes now.<P>We were so healty before. Like I asked in my other posts. Can you go from NOT being a Co-D, into being one? Or was I always one and just didn't know. I've never heard of Co-D until now.<P>I think I will get some counseling about this. It freaked me out.<P>

I am a recovering Co-D. My story is on the pregnancy/child board. My counselor recomended these books to me and they really helped.<BR>Codependent No More by Melody Beattie<BR>Boundaries by John Townsend and Henry Cloud<BR>Good luck in all your life.<BR>Echo

Anastasia:<P>Wow! What an insightful look at co-dependency.<P>In its' most simple terms, I have always understood co-dependency as being "an addiction to a person, thing or substance".<P>Also, that it takes "2" for there to be a co-dependent situation. One party is the co-dependent one, while the other is the "enabler".<P>I have spent5 years, allowing the Lord to deal with me and set me free from co-dependency...but after reading what you shared.....I obviously still have co-dependent overtones.<P>Oh well, this only goes to prove that healing sometimes is a long, drawn out process that doesn't just happen overnight.<P>Thanks for sharing this...<P>[censored] from Texas

Anastasia,<P>Thanks for posting that. I am a recovering co-dependent.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Because relationships hurt so much, co-dependents are more in touch with the dream of how the relationship COULD be, rather than the reality of the situation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>While all the other info was good, this hit home.<P>I have read Harley's article and this is one where I don't agree. My h was completely selfish and a workaholic. It doesn't have to be drugs...<P>I learned at an early age that my needs were not important and certainly not likely to ever be met.<P>And yes, when guys were too "nice" to me, I was not interested. They were "weak".<P>I have now realized that one of the things that most attracted me to my h was his standoffishness, the strong silent type.<P>Anastasia, you may or may not be. I think it is part of the cycles following an A that we so want to be loved and have their approval. It seems unlikely that you would be Co-d now if you weren't before.<P>I fully realized it following D-day, but I can clearly see it throughout my life as I look back...<BR>

I posted this in EN too. There are some really wonderful replies. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/003019.html." TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/003019.html.</A> Very Enlightening.<P>Thanks Schiz and [censored]. This was so profound to me when I read it. I'm just like you Schiz. Never cared for the "sweet" guys. I always went for the macho ones. That was sooo manly, lol. And the part where you focus on how it COULD be.<P>I am more emotionally needy now after his EA, but he is also more emotionally sheilded. Its just a mess up circle that I pray will eventually work its way out. We are way better and recommitted, but my god was it tough.<P>[censored], look at it this way. What Dr. H says is that being Co-D is a good thing for a marriage, even essentail. I agree. I've always put my H and family first before myelf. But God tells us to do that too. Just don't lose who you are.<P>Like Java said in the other post, Treat others as you wish to be treated.<P>Have a wonderful day<p>[This message has been edited by Anastasia (edited January 11, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What Dr. H says is that being Co-D is a good thing for a marriage, even essentail. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Boy, I hope not. I don't see it as good for me or those I love.<P>I think what Dr. H is arguing is that many behaviors in a marriage that is very close may LOOK co-D to someone looking in from the outside. It is the motivation that determines whether it is co-D.