I was depressed all day after getting caught up in Ivory's predicament. The old thoughts began to haunt me. The ones, prediscovery, when h was so distant, that even the kids were suffering from the effects. The way he conveniently stoppped sleeping with me, the way he would volunteer for every small errand to slip out of the nest(to make phone call presumably.) The way he would get drunk every time we would have guests for dinner. The way he would get drunk anyway every nite, just to check out(sleep) by 7:30. Even when I was rushed to emergency for my first migrane, he freaked, but then was impatient for the rest of the thing as soon as he knew what it was. The way he began to miss all of the kids' special school activities.(Even Monday he did not volunteer to accompany me to my daughter's teacher conference.) <P>The Affair: 12 months of marriage desintegration prior to my breakdown(which he also ignored) and another 3 months before discovery, and now another 6 months after dday. Now where are we? No where; in Painsville. I feel so tired sometimes that I don't want to cope-all I want to do is kick him out and say "Leave me alone, if you don't love me, get out!!!" But I cannot. MY vows mean more to me than that. But it is so hard to be a wife to someone who cares nothing for me. He is resigned to the pain he causes and is so familiar with it, that he can now block it out--and me with it.<P>I have put my foot down about the drinking. It is a consistant bad influence on my kids, and he NEEDS it to have courage to face anything. Which of course makes it all go hay-wire, and he gets more upset. He has spent the last 6 months so drunk that he does not make any effort to decide between our marriage and the ow. When things get tough, he drinks it away. <P>I have asked him to do his drinking elswhere for the sake of the kids, and I have started alanon. So far he is complying, but not happily, of course. I have not had a smile out of him or a direct look or a direct word since I told him that. It is hard to be the attacker against the demon, alcohol. I did not tell him to stop, just not to drink here in the home or in front of me or the kids. <P>He does not sleep well, and I am at a loss. My day's depression has spilled into today because I see him withdrawing more and I thought that was not possible, save leaving the home. I was wrong. There is no friend, no companion, nobody I recognise in my H's shell.<P>He goes to Chicago Sat. I know he is going to see her. He lied of course-said no. I believe it anyway. I just hope that this weekend brings it to an end, one way or another. I am losing strength again to fight against it all. YES I should give it to God, but God does not keep me HAPPY, only I can do that. <P>Anyone experience WS withdrawl before the op is out of the picture? Do you think it is the alcohol? I am sure that it will effect him, but I am not sure what to expect. I was expecting shakes or anger, something viable,tangible. It has net been long enough for that, though. <P>I pushed my "me or her" boundary out a little bit. With this new direction of dealing with his alcoholism, I felt that focusing on that, and support to him (and my Alanon!) would be a better focus then throwing him out in 2 weeks, come hell or high water. I told him last night. He seemed to change not at all. No relief, nothing. What does this mean? That he loathes me so much that he can completely dissolve me out of existance in his brain? That it matters not one bit? Here or out, he cares not, apparently. And he discusses it not one bit either--or anything. I thought the silence was thick, but it is even thicker. <P>When does plan A start working? They say it gets darker before the dawn, is this it? Or is my h getting the gumption up to say goodbye. I am so confused and hurt. I read all day yesterday. Books on relationship addiction(H's to ow)and codependency(me and H),alcoholism, Harley's----I overloaded. Too many subjects. <P>I am obsessing again because I feel helpless with all these monsters in my house, I can do nothing to stop them from tearing the rest of my marriage apart. I try to hug, talk, cook meals he likes, make eye contact, plan dates and he is like a stuffed animal--warm, but no reactions. I feel abandoned daily. I hate this feeling! <P>I am so needy for affection from a loving man that I am starting to fantasize. And not even about sex, either! It has been a long time since I felt really loved and accepted, except in the hugs of friends, and that is all they are meant to be, but when do the BS's get some lovin? Or even not to be ignored? I hate feeling like my H's bad dream, his problem, his victim.<P>I specifically did not enter the "how did you meet" thread because I mourn those happy go lucky days when love was strong and new. The pain of loss is acute today. I am not even alone to cry, my kid is home with a cold. I hope the rain does not do this to all of you--I always get depressed when it rains. It is supposed to rain all day, the desert always needs it though.<P>God Bless everyone here--I really needed to get this off my chest today because I am so sad.

Hi Burnedspouse:<P>I don't spend as much time here as I use to but I do usually read over the posts and reply when I think I have something relative to say. <P>I am so sorry you are hurting so bad and I understand a lot of what you are feeling. I too have lived with WS while he tried to decide who he wanted. But the thing was it really was no decision on his part...he needed what he was getting from OW to make himself whole...so he always chose to leave...or rather he chose to be with her and I finally threw him out. <P>We can't fight their demons for them...and that's what they are...the demons inside of them that make them unhappy with themselves and make them project it on the ones closes to them. He sees you as the focus of his problems because he can't face that his problems are in himself. So you will feel the brunt of his anger (at himself) until he is forced to deal with his problems.<P>He will probably have to hit bottom and realize he needs help before he will begin to dig his way out of this. You can't do much but stand by and watch and try not to get destroyed in the aftermath. <P>Please realize that this is his problem. I'm sure you've been told to concentrate on yourself and to quit taking responsibility for him. You seem to have made a good start by asking him to quit drinking in your home. <P>I'm sure the withdrawal is partly wanting to escape to OW (or the bottle or anything but reality) and fighting with himself against it. He sees you as the authority figure..there to make sure he does right. If you could remove yourself as his judge and jury and let him make his own mistakes while maintaining your own boundaries, then perhaps he could begin to stand on his own two feet and face his demons. <P>Either way, my concern is you. You need to realize that you will survive and go on no matter what happens. And you deserve to be happy too. Start making yourself happy in spite of the bad situation...small things, small steps, but one at a time they will make you stronger. We BS can get lost in the muck of this A business and lose ourselves and that's a greater lost then any WS would ever be.<P>I send you Angels and Prayers ~ Faye

Hi Burned,<P>You are in a lot of pain, and I wish that there were some magic powers that I had to make your H a loving, caring person again. The only thing I can do is to pray for you, and for your H, that he will come out of the "fog."<P>As difficult as this is to hear, my advice would be that if you are at the end of your rope and are so depressed and miserable that your life has disintegrated into nothing (where I was when my H was living in our home and playing us both), you might want to go to Plan B. I did. I gave my H the boot. No, I didn't want to. But at that point, it was a matter of saving myself - *and* giving it up to God at the same time.<P>Within a month, he was back at home. The XOW started to become testy and pesistent, badgering him with questions about when he was going to divorce and in general, changing from the wonderful person he thought she was into a harping, demanding shrew. He started being more and more cruel to her. It took a long time for him to see her "real colors" and that what they shared (whatever that was - mainly complaining about me) was negligible compared to what his home, his family, and his wife had to offer. He finally cut the cord and came back, entirely. He now speaks of her in nothing but negative terms. In fact, I was actually more sympathetic than *he* was.<P>Have you thought about Plan B at all? Is this something that you would consider? What could *you* do to make your life better?<P>belld

I really appreciate the support. It seems I have sewn the idea that what you read is me all the time. It isn't. I try to live in the moment, my moment today is pain. But each day does bring hope. I will be getting a break from the situation this weekend. My H goes away for 5 days on business.<P>I needed to vent 2 days worth of frustration. And as much as i hope his denied rendevue with ow blows up in his face, I wish he would just quit his job and run home to me. Fat chance. <P>I had made a boundry for him to move out at the end of this month. I recinded it for now in favor of alanon. So B is out of the question for now. If I change my mind too often he will get it in his head that I am his doormat. That I will accept him here at any cost. I have worked too hard on myself this past 6 months to let that happen. And I still respect myself too much for that. But I will go through these periods of being down. <P>The nature of this situation calls for breakdowns occasionally. Thank you again. <P>

Hi,<P>I hope you are feeling better by now. Get out and do something fun this weekend OK?<P>I thought Buffy had some great advice. I just wanted to add my support and hugs.<BR>Lora

Hi:<P>You sound better today...that's all we can expect...to make it through each day with ourselves intact. Some days are bad and we just have to go with them. Thank God for MB. It's such a comfort to know that others are here who understand.<P>As for boundaries..only you can decide when and where they need to be set up...but do it for yourself...to protect yourself and your children. Sometimes a "line in the sand" is all that can be understood...a clear and final statement of your intent to go no further. Just be sure that you are prepared to back it up and hold to it.<P>I remember those weekends well...never knowing where he was and with who...expecting him to return on Monday...holding my anger and trying not to LB...no one should be expect to withstand such torture...in the long run I couldn't...and had to tell him he was not coming back the last time...but I have held firm and not allowed him to worm hisself back..not until he has faced his demons at last...alone. I'll be here when he's done.<P>I hope your WS has better sense then mine and sees the light in time. <P>I send you Angels and Prayers ~ Faye<P>

Beth,<P>Hey hon...you're having a rough time and I'm so sorry.<P>I'm going to be honest here Beth...why are you so resistant to Plan B? Yes, only you will truly know when it's time, but I think even the Harleys and your therapist may tell you that for your own self preservation it may be time for him to leave. I know, I've been saying all along for you to keep him home, and I've also scared you by telling you things about how badly it's affected my kids, but Beth, my worries are for you now...you have to ask yourself if this would all be easier for you if you didn't have to face him every day?<P>I am no good at Plan B myself...I try, but it's very difficult as you know. I just worry hon, that you are not holding up well. Yeah, I know you were having an "off" day, and you did sound much better the other day when we spoke on the phone, but I think you are obsessing constantly. Beth, other than last weekend...when was the last time you had fun? I just don't want your life to become alanon and coda meetings so you can try to figure out what will never make sense. That's how I started to let go of Steve...I just kept telling myself that no matter how many times I did the math...1+1 would never equal 3...it will NEVER make sense. You have to accept the situation for the craziness it is.<P>I hate to ramble here Beth, but I do care about you and I am worried. You do need to feel loved...the kids are great for that, but it sounds like you carry pretty much the full load in taking care of them these days. I know you work very very hard on yourself...to love yourself. I just don't want to see J take you down with him. You are an amazingly strong woman and if you do have to make him leave you (and of this I'm sure) will make it.<P>Put the books away for a day or two. Quit studying this mess. As I said, you can read every book ever written and your husband will still not change until he's darn good and ready. You have done the work, you have changed. I'd be willing to bet you are not the same woman you were a year ago. Your kids will benefit from all you have done. <P>Take it easy on yourself. Rent a stupid old movie and don't move off the couch for a day. Stay in your jammies. Call me anytime you wish.<P>Take care of you...allison

Hey Beth,<P>It's me. I've finally found a good time to sit and catch up on reading here. My gosh, so many new people, so sad to see. <P>Beth, you need to do what Allison suggested, you know, we talked about it last week-end. You need to detach yourself ... if you're depressed and so sad your children will feel it too, Hon. <P>Your H will not make any changes right now, he is on his own time schedule with absolutely NO PLAN that he's following. And he's got you following along ... don't do it Beth. Break away Sweetie, make your own plan for you and the kids, follow your own schedule, one that's unlike his. Make your own path by detaching from him and his convaluted mess. Now that I've got to know you, I know you can do this. You have it in you.<P>Please don't let him control your happiness or potential for happiness. Start now Beth .. Detach!!! It's the only thing that will save you. <P>You know what we mean by detaching, right? What he does has nothing to do with how you feel, or should feel about yourself. He is a mess but you are not, he is confused, but you are not, he is addicted, but you are not, he is floundering in illicit sex and lies, but you are not. Why should you feel bad, you're the strong one and HE IS NOT.<P>Be strong Beth, search yor heart for the truth because I believe it will help you be strong. The truth is your H is going thru something and you cannot save him from himself. You can only save you and the kids. You've done everything you can, you've gone thru hell and back, and you've made it clear to your H you want your marriage and love him, so now love you by detaching from him.<P>These aren't harsh words, you know I feel what you're feeling, these are words with love and concern for you. Keeping telling yourself you can't control what he does and you're not responsible for the mistakes he's making or is about to make. It's his deal.<P>Love you bunches Hon.<P>Please find that strength, Beth. Lora, myself and Allison never thought we had it in us and at times we feel just as vunerable and hurt as you, at times it feels like dieing would be easier, but the sun comes up (not in WA, LOL ) and we go on and everyday gets a teansy bit better. At least you have that sun in AZ to help you a bit. <P><BR>Lots of HUGS to you and the kids, Honey.<P>Love,<BR>Jo

Hi guys! I was wondering when I would hear from you. I wrote Jo some emails, I guess she gets too many to read them all! Who from -he he he.<P>I really appreciate you getting to me. I amswered NGU this a.m. if you're interested in what went on. I think I did make a mistake adjusting my boundry. The fact that we would be out of town(away from each other) each weekend this month, did have someething to do with it. I found out last nite also that the reason he was mad all week, is he WAS mad about the alcohol letter I wrote and read to him. He thought I was trying to control him. I corrected it the best I could.<P>He is in Chicago now. I am REALLY not happy with that. But I have a feeling I will have reason to throw him out after the trip. He is not very god about hiding stuff from me. The kicker is he has a Palm Pilot now and all his notes go into it and it is like a phone, it has a lock. I am running out of the ordinary avenues. But I just want to prove she is there or not. I simply do not believe him. He is too calm and not in the least upset she cannot be there. It is not natural. He is also only "slightly" relieved about the boundary moving forward. I think max-a month. Unless I can find proof. Then it will be as I originally planned. <P>I go to a wedding in El Paso next weekend, alone. And the following weekend is my bday. January has wings on. Bye and don't worry about me. I am not going to read any more of Ivory's post--that what got me started!!!!The memories!!! Take care you all.<P>I may or may not take a break from MB. Maybe one more update after H gets back. Call me, or email me. Beth

Hey Beth ...<P>My Hotmail acct isn't my primary addy, rarely go there. My work acct is my primary acct. Sorry your emails languished. <P>I don't have the soup recipe with me, and sounds like H has already took off, dang!<P>Are you doing okay? Sure hope so. Can't call you for a bit, big phone bills right now. But you can give me a ring if you want to chat, Hon.<P>Love and Prayers Beth.<P>Jo