Ok, he just stopped in here on his way home from work. We hung out a little & talked, again not about anything "important". He laid down on the couch & took a little nap, I just read a book. After he woke up he was looking at a cookbook (Rick, there's nothing in this one for kids-half the stuff made MY stomach turn!) that just came in the mail for him (he hasn't changed his address) so I went & sat beside him to look too. I gave him a hug & a kiss on his head & told him I loved him. One thing lead to another and . . . he said maybe we should stop, I told him ok, but I didn't want to. He got a smile on his face, see that's what I mean about his self esteem, I can see it being sooo low. I feel bad for him. <P>I feel like he wants to talk to me about what he's feeling and what's going on, but doesn't know how. Just a little history, before he moved out he tried to tell me some of the things he was feeling (not being ready, the possibility that he may want to be with other people) and I didn't listen because it threatened me. I just kept telling him how wrong he was for having those feelings. I don't know if I should try to get into deeper conversations with him when we talk or not. We were talking on the phone the other night and started talking about money (I LB'd him big time with $, see he's returned to college so I've made the majority of the $ recently, so when we would fight about his feelings I would say things basically about him using me and why was he even here? How's that for taking shots at his self esteem?), anyhow I apologized to him for saying things like that and told him how much he did contribute and that I didn't really feel that way, I was just scared & hurt. This was all before I found this site, I wish I would have sooner. But when I was apologizing he seemed very receptive to listening to me, not at all like he didn't want to talk about it.<P>I know some of you tell me that I need to let him go more, not be so available, but I'm not getting that from him. I told him a few weeks ago when we were talking about how confused he is about me & OW that I would step out of the way, he didn't have to call me every day, that I knew he had some decisions to make and I didn't want to be in the way. So for a few days he didn't call, now it's back to every day, sometimes twice a day. I don't really think that he's trying to keep me hanging around. He's been very honest with me through this, which I really respect. He's told me he sometimes thinks he should just go so he will stop hurting me. Through all this he still cares about my feelings-not enough to stop doing what he's doing, but he does care how it affects me. I just see a very confused man and I want to reach out to him.<P>Also remember I'm a controller, so I've been trying hard to REALLY think about why I want to do some of the things I feel I want to. I ask myself, is this really the reason or am I trying to "fix" or "change" what's happening, or make him "see".<P>Anybody have any ideas/suggestions/thoughts??? I just want you all to know that I really count on your feedback and appreciate it. It gives me some other opinions and helps me to really think things through. I can't thank you enough for the support I've gotten through this site already. Sorry if it's kinda rambling, I get so many thoughts running through my head sometimes.

This is just one opinion of course, but here is what I think. You mention that he might not be ready, might want to be with other people, etc. Lots of people go through that, and the outcome is one of two ways. So to me, all you can do is to play to win. Be the very best you can be, not just temporarily, but permanently. Take stock of what you can do to be better, to meet his ENs the best, and to not LB. You've identified some things, so work on them, and don't just do it "for now" to get him back. Do it forever.<P>I think that if everyone learned about finances and relationships in school, the world would be a better place. And, the divorce rate would be way down. People would be wiser with their money too. Two of the most important things, and they are just taken for granted. OK, I'm getting off topic. Back to you. What I was getting at, is to read as much as you can about relationships, ENs, etc. I'm sure you've heard of all the good books by now. If you haven't already, get Light His Fire, and read that. Do things from it. There are lots of things that men want in a relationship, and when they find the woman that does so many of them, doesn't LB, and they just click with, bingo...then they don't have to think about "am I ready...bla bla bla". I'm not drawing conclusions about you or him, just saying what I think.<P>So, in keeping with showing him you are the best, I personally say that you should take any opportunity to be with him and be affectionate. Just DON'T push, be whiny, beg, plead, control, and all that stuff. Again, just a general statement, not saying this is you or anything like that. I could just see that if someone is thinking the way he is, he wants to make his own decision, and not be in any way pushed into it or made to feel smothered. However, you can silently help make his decision. By following a really good Plan A.<P>To me, the fact that you are being allowed to be a bit affectionate is a bonus. Most of us don't have that luxury. And when affection was an EN we didn't meet properly, it just makes Plan A harder. So I say use your time with him to make him think. But do be sure to Plan A such that it is not just to win him back, but to make a better you. And as you know, it works full circle, because that in itself makes you more attractive to him. You can't lose by doing Plan A for YOU.<P>It seems like just telling him that you won't stand in his way had a little impact. He started calling more. So you didn't try to smother him, you gave him room. Good move I'd say. As part of Plan A, you work on you, do what you want to do, be as busy as you want to be, but it doesn't mean you have to not be around for him. I don't think a line has to be drawn. Just be your best and give it some time.<P>Like Steve put it when I recently spoke to him....pretend they have a formula that got massaged enough to make them want to leave. Plan A messes up the formula. They want to leave because of the combination of variables, and they make the decision based on what they know of you, the relationship, how they feel in it, etc. When you Plan A, you change the variables, and mess up their formula. The things that went into the decision to leave are now different, and it changes the result. It is gradual, but it all makes sense to me.<P>Anyway, I'm really rambling bad. Hope you get some more opinions. I forget, but did you buy any of the books, and have you read them. Does he know of them, and/or have any interest in them?<P>To me, being in a relationship and not knowing the concepts for a successful marriage is like walking in the dark. I feel like I was in the dark until MB. I hope he figures out how lucky he is to have someone that has "seen the light" if I may use that term for your case.<P>Take care.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited January 13, 2001).]