I have one of those H who didn't end the affair and show remorse... yet anyhow.<P>I have been having alot of ups and downs and am getting pretty frustrated with waiting and may give up. <P>Please share your story in more details with us. I am always envious of those who have H that end it and move on to recovery. I know that is not easy either, but at least it seems like they are moving somewhere. The rest of us just seem stuck in this holding pattern of waiting.<P>Lora

Hi Lora,<P> I was surprised to see my name!....I always read your posts!<P> Anyway, my H came back because basically he felt guilty about the kids and wanted to do the "right thing"....there really was no remorse about what he did to me , just an "I'm back" . It really was awful and I felt so unloved and like "chopped liver".<P> To make the long story short, I had been in Plan B (followed strictly) and he came back in 2 weeks. He began seeing the consequences of his affair (the kids' reaction) etc. and I think he started to panic that maybe I wouldn't be sitting around waiting for him. This was after a 1 1/2yr. affair , Dday and then 5mos. of continuing to see OW(swearing he wasn't of course).<P>One of the conditions of recovery when he wanted to come back was we had to move....we did(6hrs.) but for almost a year after, he was distant and cold. I found out he was still calling the OW. I also found a letter about how his love affair with her was the "best gift he ever received "....barf.<P> I really was getting at my wit's end but then lo and behold his attitude changed big time.....( I secretly think maybe the OW blew him off since he wasn't leaving us) He started becoming more affectionate and I really think he sees the whole thing with new eyes....he truly was in "the fog" for a good 21/2yrs.....but now he is like the H I used to know.....it's unbelievable to me. He made a comment about how people sometimes "go insane in their lives ". <P>So, I would like to say I really feel that they do try to come back maybe not for the right reasons(have you read "Private Lies" by Frank Pittman?) . I think sometimes the waiting about kills the BS and they move on . Pittman in his book advises those with a previous"good"marriage to try to wait it out and try not to take it personally...(yeah,right!!)...<P>Lora, how long have you been waiting? Have you gone to Plan B? Steve H. really helped me with it all and I kept rereading SAA and Private Lies ......Hope this helps, I know it doesn't always work out, but the counslor here said he had never seen someone as infatuated with an OW as my H was, and that I better prepare for a D. Thank God, I didn't give up.................LU

Wow - I am so amazed at how you have done this Lu. I understand I was not invited into this thread, but as someone in Plan A for 13 months, and pretty close to Plan B, I am inspired by your success Lu.<P>I also have a whole new respect for those that wait - it takes every ounce of strength (and Love) I have for my wife, whose affair has been going on for 16 months now. Originally it was an Emotional Affair, but now I realize it probably extends to a physical relationship.<P>Thank you Lu for your inspiration. And, it may sound wierd, but thank you too Lora for asking the questions, and allowing me to see that I am not the only one wondering this and feeling very close to the end of my rope. Like you I have wondered if it would be better (once I even hoped) my wife would end it. I honestly think she (and her boyfriend) are waiting for me to do it.<P>I would love to hear more about both your stories: Lu's past success, and Lora's efforts and questions.<P>My situation (I am guessing) is much like most plan A'ers: Give, give, give, and little (or no return, or worse, a negative return), so I relate totally to Lora (and probably Lu once upon a lonlier time). I am by no means an expert, but in Plan A for over 1 year. I am still learning every day - that's when I get new life (in my plan A).<P>Thank you for your posts!!<P>LONELY BOY

Thanks for the reply Lu, and everyone is invited Lonely boy, welcome.<P>I had D day 8/99, apaerently the EA started 2/99 and I beleive it got more intense after Dday. I plan Aed from 11/99 when I found this site till 9/00 when I finaly asked H to move out after I found he had taken OW camping after lieing to me about it. Of course he had been saying he wanted to leave for 4 months but hadent made a move. <P>I felt like we were making no progress in plan A after some initial gains. He totally avoided me and continued to see her as often as possible.<P>I had planed to continue plan A then move to plan B once he moved out. But he immediatly stopped all contact with me and I did not contact him except for some letters. I saw him for the first time in 4 months at Christmas. It was uncomfortable. Then I had to call him about some house stuff and he was so different.. he talked to me! I had to call agin when OW H started calling me and I asked him to stop that. He said he was trying to break it off with her and wondered if we could go out to dinner. Of course that was 3 weeks ago and he hasn't called since. I am back to plan B.. it will be up to him to call me. <P>On my hopeful days I think he will take awhile to break it off with her and don't really want to be involved until then. On other days I dont think he has the strength to do it all and I get lonely and wonder why I keep waiting. <P>I have told myself I will give it 6 months since he moved and then make a decision, so I continue to wait. Hard to continue to be patient though. <P>So thanks for the story Lu. I am hoping it will go like Lostvas story where he is truely over her by the time this ends. I pray she is LB her little A** off. I didnt even know she was married with kids till last month and that gave me hope too.<P>I love private lies. I did counsel with Steve a few times, but have been in a holding pattern for so long.. I feel like he can't really tell me much now.<P>Lora<P><p>[This message has been edited by Lora (edited January 18, 2001).]

Hi Lonely Boy,<P> You are welcome to join us!! I really don't think I was that strong, in fact I feel like the poster girl for doing a Plan A with plenty of LB's!!! I was NOT very good at Plan A honest!<P> Actually I did Plan A as well as possible after Dday for 5mos. and could not take it anymore and then went to PLan B. My H came back home and then we moved and he continued with phone contact (unbeknown to me) for about 10 mos. or so. That made perfect sense with his continued attitude towards me , distance, disinterest etc.....but somehow just as I was ready to make plans to leave him he changed radically .The contact was finally OVER...I discovered this all later.<P> I think the hope I would like to offer people is that even though it seems so hopeless it can change and quickly....it truly is unbelievable to me.If once you had a "good" marriage and they were good people it can all turn around incredibly fast.<P>Lora,<P> I'm sorry you are in limbo ...I think in my case that plan B was short lived because the affair was already reaching the 2yr. mark. I was prepared in my mind for Plan B to go on much longer . Harley told me that when they do leave to live with OP they will do their darndest to "make it work" so it might take awhile for things to start falling apart.I was trying to follow Pittman's advice when he tells the betrayed to do what it takes to hold oneself together and wait it out. <P>Did you write the Plan B letter? That really seemed to help also.....Good luck Lora, that's a good sign that he wants to leave her, it might be the beginning of the end but may take some TIME (truly hate that word!!!!) Thinking of you, ....... LU

My H's affair began almost 2.5 years ago - he left almost two years ago, he divorced me a few months ago, he is still treats me with distain, and treats the kids almost as badly. He used to be a good man and a loving father, and I thought we had a good marriage, but all that changed virtually overnight and he has gotten continually worse. I wish I could believe that there was hope that he would ever even feel anything other that hatred toward me, but I fear that Lu's situation is the exception.

Lu,<P>Well, my H affair is coming up on 2 years too. But since I found out she is married, and her H appears to know I wonder what that does to the dynamics. They are not able to live together so the continue to be starcrossed friends with us evil spouses holding them apart.<P>I have been debating the plan B letter. I guess I needed to know that he wanted to contact me. So I have not done it yet. I guess if he tries to contact me and continue the affair then I will do it for sure. Otherwise I am just not sure. I mean it seems a little funny to send him a letter to tell him not to contact me when he hasn't.<P>Nellie,<BR>I am sorry your H continues to treat you so poorly. I pray you can somehow understand that it is not your fault, nor do I think it is all men. I pray your situation is the unusual one. I still beleive that one day your H will have some remorse, but probably long after it will do you any good. Take care.<BR>Lora<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Lora (edited January 19, 2001).]

Hi Nellie,<P> I'm sorry your H is still being dreadful to you.....AND I know from where you sit it must seem that my situation is the exception. However,I've seen it time and time again where the WS comes back....and MY situation seemed beyond hope. Do you still have hope that he might come around?,( I know you think he suffers terribly from depression)<P> Lora,<P> The reason I asked about the plan B letter was it really makes the situation very clear.In so many words I told him that until the OW was out of the picture there would be no reconciliation. I also told him I loved him and thought we could get past everything and that I wouldn't punish him (Steve told me to put that in there since I was the queen of LB's). Then as hard as it was ,I cut off all contact and scheduled visitation for every other weekend . Oh, I also got a separation agreement that spelled out how much money I was to get and had it automatically set up. <P>Who knows what really brings them around, it does seem in most cases the dynamics are all pretty similar.....Hang in there , girl, ....LU <P>

Lu and Lora,<P>I think there is a good chance that their relationship will eventually fall apart, but he will probably somehow blame me for that, too, and hate me even more. I would not be surprised if he eventually decides that none of the kids love him, and completely disconnect from them. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited January 19, 2001).]