Why do opposites attract? Why do I ask? Well here's my take on what it takes to make a marriage work.<P> In order for two people to successfully live together in essence two things have to happen. First each must have the knowledge of what it takes to make the other happy(EN's) and then act on that. Secondly they have to be considerate of the other person and how things affect them negatively(Lb's).<P> Now logic would tell me that the most compatible people are ones who for the most part have the same needs and also are annoyed by basically the same thing. <P><BR> I ask this for a reason. In my relationship I have what I would consider sterotypically female needs/lb's... I AM NOT non masculine. I am athletic, played football, love hunting and fishing...(perhaps I'm a bit defensive). My wife/Ws on the other hand has sterotypical male needs. She is very into looks, Likes to do projects together, needs me to be there for the family(She doesn't enjoy tending or dealing with kids). <P> I typically do for her as I would want done. Hugging, kissing, I love you, Make love rather than just sex... These things just don't do anything for her. She is very into looking good, partying, doing fixer up projects together... <P> In order for me to meet her needs and not Lb her I need to do something innately unnatural for me. In order for me to do this I have to first be understanding that she is different and that these things I do for her are not giving ME satisfaction but they are giving HER satisfaction. This in some ways is very unnatural.<P> I have the understanding of what I need to do to make her happy BUT she does not have this same understanding. Basically she tells me she doesn't want to hug me or kiss me and will never have desire for me because that's not the way she is... Now I'm not typically a fancy dresser or worried about how Buff I am nor do I get a rise out of doing projects together. BUT I know that this makes her happy and just the idea that it is for her is enough for me. I know I can't force her to want to do these things for me but In order for me to continue the relationship she has to want to make me happy and do things unselfishly for me... Trick is teaching someone who doesn't think they need to be taught... Making someone change that doesn't want to be changed.<P> Soooooo of all the women in the world who are more "in tune" with the way I am why did I chose her? Why do opposites attract? Life would sure be a lot simpler if we were more in tune.... Any thoughts?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by crick:<BR><B>Why do opposites attract?</B><P>A great topic, and one that has been batted around quiite a bit in the EN board. If you are interested in exploring this stuff further, you might get into Myers-Briggs testing and the info at <A HREF="http://www.personalitytype.com." TARGET=_blank>www.personalitytype.com.</A> <P>Probably like you, my W and I are almost 100% Myers-Briggs opposites.<P>My take on it is, in short, while opposites may not intuitively fill ENs, as defined by Harley, they fill many other needs. For instance, I am emotive, mercurial, non-domestic, very extroverted, very ambitious, high income, not detail-oriented. My W is emotionally reserved, stable, very domestic, shy/introverted, not particularly ambitious career-wise, detail-oriented.<P>So...a lot of differences there....but what do the two of us deliver <B><I> as a TEAM ??</B></I> <P>If my W married someone just like herself, they would have no social life, be financially strapped, and not share emotions. If I married someone just like myself, we would be on an emotional rollercoaster, the house would be a mess, we would be partying all the time, and much would be sacrificed for the career, at the expense of the family, and a lot would fall through the cracks, with neither of us paying attention to life's details.<P>So....say, from the perspective of your kids, there are a great deal of benefits to having all those strengths in the parenting couple. <P>So...you fill gaps, I guess is the short answer. Make sense? But they are high maintenance relationships, and you have to learn the skills to give in the areas that aren't natural to you.<P>Check out that site, and get their book, Just Your Type. It gives specific advice to how your precise personality type can interact with your spouse precise personality type. <P>Mike

MikeC2,<P> I can quite clearly see the benefits of having an opposite... My dilemma is she doesn't WANT to meet needs that don't make HER feel good. This is an unselfish act. She knows I enjoy hugs, kissing, saying I love you.... BUT her stance is it's not the way she is... I know I cannot change her, she has to see the need for change, then want to change and then take action. I know without affection I will never be happy. This makes my job (meeting her En's) very difficult because quite honestly they do nothing for me... I can probably do this short term but that is how our marriage failed... She didn't give affection and so I quit caring about doing anything for her. Now I realize I need to change but she's quite content in my changes and she see's no need to change. I've thought seriously about a Plan B attack to give her a reason to believe there is a need for her to change. Perhaps this will get her to realize that she must also consider me if she wants to continue in her happiness. I've often thought on major problem with Plan A is they basically get there cake and eat it too... I work hard on being a better person and they don't have to do anything to keep it coming... Plan B to me is more of a reality check. Take away the cake and they won't have anything to eat. My WS is no longer deep in the fog. She wants to be back together and doesn't want to be with the Om BUT I'm realizing that without her changing I really don't want her... Make any sense? Crick

Makes sense to me. I fully relate to your spouse just saying "that is the way I am" and not wanting to change. As I've probably said before here, I fear that even if my wife ever wanted to reconcile, she would not be willing to make any changes, whereas I am.<P>Not a good situation.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by crick:<BR><B>My dilemma is she doesn't WANT to meet needs that don't make HER feel good. This is an unselfish act. She knows I enjoy hugs, kissing, saying I love you.... BUT her stance is it's not the way she is...</B><P>I think that the lack of affection that you are seeing is less because of a personality type and more indicative of the current state of love your W feels for you. But that can be improved, given time and patience.<P>Let me ask you this: Was your W affectionate and cuddly when you were newly together?<BR>

I can so relate to this topic. H has stopped contact with OW. I have been trying to meet his needs, but I get nothing in return. He says I`m not comfortable doing those things. The problem is, he did those things and more for her. He gave her ALL the things I need from him. He says he felt comfortable with her not me. How in the world am I suppose to feel good about us when he says things like that to me. I can`t seem to let go of everything I read in their e-mails. He thinks when he feels love for me again he will be more comfortable doing all of those things for me. That would be great except he thinks that one day he will wake up and say oh I do love her. Well we all know that will never happen. How do I get him to see he has to do the actions and the feeling will come?

MikeC2,<P> The answer to the question of did she ever do these things before is no... When we first met she was very affectionate but in a different way. She was extremely passionate in making love. Outside of love making she showed little signs of affection. But this was enough for me. It doesn't matter how I get the affection as long as I get it. Problem is as in most marriages the Fire that you feel in the beginning usually fades. Without the affection in other ways I felt dead inside and still do. We talked about this the other day and she told me she would never "Desire" me again. It will never be like it was in the beginning... I understand where she's coming from but without her changing and showing affection in other ways we'll soon be back where we were and I'm not going to allow that to happen. I'll leave before then... The way I look at it is I'm doing things I didn't do in the beginning of our relationship because it makes her happy. Anybody who refuses to change is in for many sad times. <P>Ilovehim,<P> You speak my mind so clearly... She tells me she can't desire me but managed to desire 3 other people. She tells me sex isn't important and yet had 2 one night stands... So what did she get out of the one night stands? Perhaps it was all a symptom of the fog... I asked her why she can't hug me or kiss me... She said it's not her and do I want her to "Fake" it... I said "Do you love me?" She said yes... I said then you wouldn't be faking it... It may not give her any pleasure but If it gives me pleasure then why not? Again it comes down to caring for someone else enough to want to make them happy, realizing what makes them happy and then doing it for THEM. It's an unselfish act... Either way I now am at the point of waiting... I will give it time to see if she can care enough about me to want to make me happy. If not, It'll be easier for me to end our marriage because without this I will never be happy and we'll go back to the same rut we were in... Crick

[QUOTE]Originally posted by crick:<BR><B>It doesn't matter how I get the affection as long as I get it. Problem is as in most marriages the Fire that you feel in the beginning usually fades.</B><P>I can definitely relate to what you are saying. <P>My W and I went through counseling with Steve Harley, and I had a lot of the issues you had....my top needs were SF and Affection. We were in a cycle where my need for them were smothering my W, and she was coming increasingly withdrawn.<P>One of the things that counseling did was to quantify these things and give each partner a chance to express their likes and dislikes. Then we came up with a plan to meet each others needs...a detailed plan, dowen to "cuddle 5 minutes in the morning" or "say I love you 3 times a day"<P>We POJA'ed a sex schedule, and my W agreed to some specific affection showing activities. Now, where this comes relevant to you is, Harley had a long discussion with us about how these things might feel awkward at first.....when you hadn't said "I love you" in ten years, it feels silly and scary and weird. But with a set of planned activities, it got better for both of us.<P>Now....we didn't have any outside parties involved, we were just extremely withdrawn from one another. or, rather my W was from me. <P>Forgive me for not remembering the details, but how long has it been since D-day and your W breaking off contact? Getting your needs met in Plan A is, of course, an oxymoron, so maybe you just need some more time, and your W will get back to the passion that met your needs in the beginning. Every WS says that they will never feel the passion, but a lot of them recover it with Harley's methods.<P>If she is open to it, I would strongly advise you to counsel with Steve Harley.

I can relate to the phrase "that's just the way I am".....that used to come from my mouth when my wife would tell me I wasn't meeting her needs. But, one night during one of our monthly battles about me not meeting her needs I had the realization that she was totally right. The whole time before I was trying to meet her needs...MY WAY. I realized that I was trying to meet needs that made sense to me, almost as if I was trying to meet my own needs or what I thought was the most important. No wonder in her eyes I loooked so selfish and uncaring. I realized that her needs were opposite of mine and then began to meet her needs as hard as I could. Now, was it unnatural? Yes. Did it take extra effort? Yes. Reason being also had to do with we were opposites, totally. Being that I'm very laid back and easy going it's not hard for her to meet my needs. She is on the opposite end of the spectrum and very high maintenance. The bottom line is that I made every effort when the light bulb went on and met her needs no matter how unnatural it felt and pretty soon it became more natural for me and almost second nature. I realized that no matter how insignificant something might be to me, it could be my wifes whole reason for existing. What a difference!

MikeC2,<P> We have been in counseling with Steve and she thought it wonderful as long as she felt he was saying things I needed to change. This all made perfect sense to her. The minute he started addressing her need to change she suddenly stopped believing in MB principles and thought it to be a waste of money. I know I cannot changer her. She has to want to change. She has to see a need for change. Dday for us was back in Sept. She continued on in the affair until the end of October. We began spending more time together in November and she moved back in December. Perhaps I'm rushing things but it's hard to believe she'll ever change when her thought process is "That's just the way I am". She is very clear on what she needs and that if I don't allow her to do that she will not be happy with me. Now the minute I discuss that I need affection she says that Affection irritates her and if she's irritated she's not happy with me. Next thing she'll say is she needs to make herself happy and doesn't want me to do it. Problem is if she does that without consideration for me and I make myself happy without consideration for her we'll be back where we were... I understand and realize this but problem is she doesn't and I have no idea if she ever will....<P>TxFiddler,<P> I hope my wife can one day have better understanding of this like you did. I too was doing things for her as I wanted. Just couldn't figure out how this didn't make her happy. Now I know... The light bulb has clicked... I even think she see's this but again knowledge is one thing. Wanting to change is another. It's a selfless act. You have to care about someone enough to do it for them... Don't know if she can ever be that person. I will hold on as long as I feel I can take it if there is no change I will move on. I sometimes think that she doesn't believe that I'll move on so feels no need to change... That's why I've thought long and hard about a Plan B... When she moved out during the A it hit her hard. She lost the comforts of home, she lost the kids, she didn't have much money. Now that she's back she has those things and doesn't feel the need to change or put effort into it... Time will tell.. Crick

[QUOTE]Originally posted by crick:<BR><B>We began spending more time together in November and she moved back in December. Perhaps I'm rushing things but...</B><P>Well....maybe you are. I think sometimes this process needs one party to "prime the pump"....Plan A hard, meet enough needs, build lovebank deposits to the point where their partner starts to feel in love and reciprocates. <P>Statements like your wife is making about a reluctance to work on her behavior or meet your needs are indicative of where she is right now, but shouldn't necessarily be taken as permanent positions. <P>I think you are stilll VERY early in the process. She broke it off, and moved back in....that is all to the good. Try to let your Giver rule for 60 or 90 days, and I'll bet you see progress.<P>Mike <BR>

MikeC2,<P> Thanks for the input... Actually I decided going in that I would give it to June when the kids get out of school so if I did decide to throw in the towel I could do it during their summer off... I guess the way to look at it is I'm becoming a better person for it and should the day come when it ends I know I'll feel okay and more than likely she'll be the one looking back with regrets. I know for my sanity I needed to set a date on how long I will push myself. Sometimes if there's a definite timeline it's easier to swallow. Sort of the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not sure how some of the people hold on for so long... I'd lose my mind. Thanks for your help. Crick

[QUOTE]Originally posted by crick:<BR><B>Thanks for the input... Actually I decided going in that I would give it to June</B><P>I think that is a good plan. I would advise you to keep that timeframe to yourself....if your W knew, it would feel like a ticking timebomb.<P>You may have an interesting dilemma in June if your results are in the grey area. I know I set a six month timeline for seeing results....but three months in, I realized that my Plan A was WAY off base. I would advise you...I would advise EVERYONE trying this approach to spend the money for a few counseling sessions to make sure you are on track. I think everyone only has so much gas for this effort, and it is a shame when they spin their wheels.<P>Anyway, when six months came, I hadn't seen the results I wanted and sort of imploded with my W...as soon as she saw that it was OK Corral time, she really made a reciprocal effort on my ENs, and all our problems magically went away.<P>Mike