After H's last 'out of town' trip to see OW (it was an overnighter), I calmly asked him why he hadn't told me he was planning on going out of town. I had called and spoken to him that day, so he had the opportunity to tell me, but he didn't. Instead, he left me another one of his cowardly notes to find when I got home from work. I asked him if he thought it was easier on me to read the notes. He replied (honestly for a change) that, "No, it was easier on him". I then asked him to please tell me in advance next time he was going out of town. He replied, "Okay".<P>I have come to expect nothing of him. It really amazes me that he still insists on sleeping with me (but, no intimacy), and he always kisses me goodbye before leaving for work. When I tell him goodbye in the morning as I leave for work, he reaches out and takes my hand, & sometimes he is reluctant to let go. I have asked him to leave on a couple of occasions after finding out he never ended the affair, but he refuses. And, I have decided it's not in my best interest at the moment to be forced out of my home. My job situation is tenous and I'm waiting to see what happens there. Hopefully, I'll know something within the next couple of weeks.<P>I feel so beaten down. I'm tired of fighting this, and I've lost so much respect for him that I really don't know what I feel towards him anymore. At the moment, it's mostly sadness and pity. He is still in counseling, but he's stopped all of his medication. I don't think that a "Plan B" would do any good. Mostly because I tried that, and he wouldn't leave me alone. He missed me terribly and he duped me into believing the affair was over and told me he wanted to reconcile. So, how could I ever believe him again if he told me the affair was over?? <BR>

I feel for you...you're in a tough spot. It is like he won't leave but won't stop what he is doing. Having his cake and eating it too. Have you talked to Steve Harley at some point?<P>Did he leave at one point (you mentioned trying Plan B)? I kind of sounds like a really enforced Plan B is the only thing that will wake him up. But I'm not an expert on any of that though...just telling you my thoughts.<P>I can relate to the frustration. I'm feeling that way myself. I hope something changes for you.<P>

Hi Rick,<P>Thanks for responding. Yes, he moved out a year ago for six months. He was 200 miles away and within 5 minutes of OW. At that time, I told him no contact. Well, he called me at work nearly every day, sometimes 2 & 3 times a day. I couldn't dodge his calls as it would have aroused suspicion at work, & I was trying to keep the mess out of the rumor mill. He wasn't gone a week and he was already hinting about coming back! Pretty soon, he was driving up to see me every week on his days off. Then, towards the end of his lease he began having blurred vision and dizzy spells. I was worried about his health and I let him come back.<P>Yes, I guess he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. He keeps telling me that the "affair isn't long term". Well, from my perspective, it's felt like a lifetime. We've discussed divorce, but I told him that after what happened while he was in his apartment, that the only way I was going to be able to move on with my life was to move out of town with no forwarding address. His response, "You wouldn't do that to me."

Did you suggest counselling, ask for a no contact letter, all that usual stuff? It sounds like he never wants to lose you, yet continues to have his fun. How frustrating that must be for you.<P>Did you have a so called recovery period? Sorry for all the questions.

<BR>Oh Sidney. I am so sorry. It is the proverbial rearrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic. "Please let me know in advance when you are going to see OW, rather than leaving a note for me to find." I can't stand to see you negotiating like this (mostly because I have done it and it resulted in the same beaten down feeling you have now.)<P>This will sound harsh. But I think you need to either move or get H to move. He has a shrink. He has support if he is willing to call on it. I firmly believe you are going to have to step aside for this to happen. The only reason my H is addressing his own issues is because I am no longer standing there to fix things for him. He had to hit bottom on his own, and pull himself up on his own. He had to see the reality of his own life and choices and I was preventing that by always being there. <P>More importantly, this is killing you. It is an untenable situation and is one thing to continue for a 6 month plan A, but quite another to pick up as a lifestyle on an extended basis. I couldn't see this for so long in my own case. But when you finally do, the anger and resentment and sickening disappointment are overwhelming.<P>I understand the logistics are tough. But do you have family you can call on to give you even temporary shelter? I just can't stand to see you enduring this emotional abuse because of "practicalities" (which I don't mean to minimize, but if you don't take care of yourself and your feelings they will make themselves a priority eventually-whether the timing is convenient for you or not).<P>Please consider getting out while you still have some love left. It is terrifying in many ways I know. I have no hope that even if my H "fixes himself" he will ever come back to our marriage. But what kind of marriage is it otherwise? For me the present situation just became suddenly impossible - and once I had sat on that feeling for a month or so, it was clear what I had to do - plan B with legal separation (already completed) with a set time frame (in my mind until summer) to divorce.<P>Take care sid,<BR>email me if you wish star__pony@hotmail.com<P>Starpony

Sidney,<P>Although you said that Plan B wasn't for you...I really think that, at this point, it is necessary. Why won't you do a Plan B?<P>Your H is acting so disrespectful towards you and I don't believe that you should negotiate that he writes a note whenever he leaves to sleep over OW's. That's nonsense! You are enabling his affair.<P>I keep remembering what Dr. Phil said on one of the Oprah shows, "We teach our spouses how to treat us..."<P>You need to set up boundaries right now, or do Plan B. If you don't, then you will end up resenting your H...and you may lose all love for him.

Sidney,<BR>Until I read your post, I'd blessedly forgotten the notes that my H would leave, a couple of times beginning a separation, even though he too had talked to me...or walked out earlier.<P>I don't know how I survived...I don't know how you can survive that regularly, or even intermittantly.<P>I know what it is like to be unsure financially, but his sleeping with you, except when he's sleeping with her will kill your spirit & drain your soul. He doesn't have the right to insist on this, but I was much the same as you, I wanted my H in whatever capacity I could have him...until I snapped and didn't want him in any way. Again, something that is difficult to come back from, although I would say we are in recovery. I would strongly suggest you re-consider Plan B.<P>And I can tell you, believing an affair is over, when you believed it the first couple times, isn't something that comes bounding back. As far as I know my H's affair has been over for over a year, yet with co-worker contact it feels like it will never be over. He's probably gotten over her quicker than I am.<P>I feel the exhaustion in your post and am worried about you.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

Thank you one and all for your responses and heartfelt concern.<P>Hi Rick- The questions aren't a problem. Yes, we were in counseling with HIS counselor and from the start I had the distinct feeling that she thought our circumstance hopeless. After about 5 sessions, she didn't want to see us as a couple anymore. When he first came back, I thought we were in "recovery", but I quickly learned we weren't as she was still in the picture.<P>Hi *Pony- I know what you're saying and I know I need to be in a Plan B. I've been sitting tight because of a few things. With H refusing to move out, I would have to subsidize his living in our home, while I moved into a small, depressing apartment. He cannot afford the house payment by himself. I've thought about this a lot, and I think it would be the final insult. Secondly, my job situation is very tenuous. I may have a job where I currently am, I may get transferred or I may be unemployed! If I get transferred or lose my job, then I would leave the area. So, there's no point in making a move with another one very possibly imminent. Now, if I stay where I am, & decide to keep the house then I am going to demand that H move out. I think that most likely we will have to sell the house and I have been doing a lot of work before putting it on the market- as has he. All my family is 1500 miles away, unfortuneately. But, I do have a very good friend who has given me an open invite to stay at her house if things get to be too much. Thanks for you email address.<P>Hi Survivor- I have asked that H move out (Plan B), but he refuses. We live a ways out, and realistically I'm sure that a restraining order couldn't be enforced. Plus, he still has his name on the deed to the house. Other than his desire to become a stud muffin, he's actually been more considerate of me than he's been in many years. I couldn't ask for a better roommate! I do know what you're saying though. I feel my love and respect for him draining away.<P>Hi Lor- Yes, it does seem to be unanimous, a Plan B is in order. Thanks so much for your thoughts. They are appreciated. <BR>

My H still sleeps with me, too. The ow is 2500 miles away and he only sees her on specific business trips. He is still lying too me about being with her. Even though I nearly killed him one night when I found proof to the contrary. This was early on after discovery. He swore up and down he wouldn't lie any more. Nice sentiment.<P>He sleeps with me in our room too. As far away as possible and no intimacy. Actually virtually none since the A started 20 months ago. DDAy was August, 2000.<P>It amazes me the indifference that lives here in my house. He is a good babysitter, but that is about it. He also brings in the paycheck. I have plan A'd so hard that I am drained. then when he goes away... He was away last week, and I went to pieces. I was really desperate. I felt valuless--that he could lie in my face and break so many promises...I finally turned the corner and have asked him to move out next weekend. I am scared, but I cannot be around his A and his lack of communication, friendship--anything that would bring two human beings together... I need him to get his mind together elswhere. It will be hard on the kids, but I don't have any choice. I cannot go into depression again. It is like starting over every time. Gaining self esteem is hard enough, without it beig beaten down every day. Having a ray of hope extinguished every day. I only lasted 6 months. But I am glad I made this decision.<P>I am not ready for B, but I think the others are right. You need to rock his world. Ask him to leave, change the locks--I don't know much about b as you can see. All I know is no contact. I am not there yet.<P>

Hi Burned,<P>I'm so sorry to hear that you're in the same boat. It really boggles my mind how men can do this. I'm beginning to think that my H has some kind of brain rot.<P>The other night, I broached the subject of possibly getting relocated with my job. I wanted to see if he's thought that far ahead and what he intends to do if it should happen. Well, I found that he intends on tagging along. I said, "so are you wanting to reconnect?" He gave me one of his usual evasive answers, "That's a big decision". I then suggested that we separate while he decides. He got this big frown on his face and said, "But, then I would lose my best friend, my only friend." He also argued that then he would have to spend his entire paycheck on living expenses, whereas now he can put it into our savings account.<P>I am totally at a loss here. How can, on one hand, he tell me he wants to move with me, yet on the other be reluctant to commit??? I don't think I am dealing with a sane person.<P>

(((((((((((((Sidney)))))))))))))<P>Since he's stopped taking his meds, you're definitely not dealing with a sane person.<P>I can see your point in waiting to make a decision once you have more info concerning your employment.<P>I'm so sorry you're still having to go through all this....I cannot imagine being as strong as you have been.<P>Our prayers are with you.<P>Lori

<B>Sidney</B><P>I remember you. I am so sorry, more than I can put into words about your situation and all that you have been through.<P>You have been given some very good and thought out responses. I think you are close to making the only decission you can. My heart goes out to you. I will keep you in my prayers.<P><B>Lostva/Lori</B> is right. Without his meds, he is not sane. He is more confused than ever, and is doing his level best without meaning to, to put you in the same boat he is in. It is time for you to think of you, and perserve the love you have left for him.<P>He is a cake man at the moment. A harsh bit of reality may be the only thing that penetrates his insanity. Remember you aren't doing this to hurt him. You will be doing this to perserve you and your love for him.<P>By all means wait until you know about your job, but then move quickly.<P>You are a wonderful, beautiful woman; who deserves way better than this.<P>Maybe speaking to one of the Harley's is just what you need to have the encouragement and courage to do what you know you have to do.<P>I wish you God's speed with your recovery. I do think it will happen. I believe this man loves you very much, and is in such a deep wave of deception. Your moving to plan B will help him find his way out of that very wicked web.<P><B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Sidney}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><P><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited January 24, 2001).]

I am with them, Syd.<P>I think if you keep up this present arrangement, your headaches will be back full force and you may have a stroke or anurysm from the stress.<P>Could you, perhaps, 'disappear' for a month, with an intermediary letting him know you aren't dead, just to save your sanity?<P>Maybe, take a leave of absence from work for a couple weeks, then some sick time?<P>I fear for your health...repressed anger turns up in strange ways. (Remember me, the Xanax queen?)<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{syd}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>lizzie<BR>

Hi Lori,<BR>It is good to hear from you again. Yes, you are right. I'm not dealing with a rational person. That's what makes this all the more confusing & frustrating. He is waaaaay out there! He was offered a promotion at work with more money and he turned it down. He told them he didn't want the responsibility and that "he wasn't working for a paycheck"! I nearly fell off the couch when he told me that. I said, "well, I'm working for a paycheck!" He replied, "that's different because you make more than me". It's like he wants to continue to live in the manner he's become accustomed to, but he doesn't think he should have to work for it. He is working at a job that is so far beneath him, it's ridiculous. Another argument he gave me about not wanting to move out is that then "he'd have to be a security guard for the rest of his life". Somehow, he doesn't think he should have to bear any consequences for his actions, yet, when we see people on TV doing similar types of stupid things (Jesse Jackson), he jumps up on his soapbox and pontificates about how THEY just have to face the consequences! And, he despises Clinton and calls him a sleazeball. I am simply mystified!!!!<P>Hi Sam,<BR>Thanks for the reality check. Last night, I came home to another "note" which said he'd be back home today. All I could think was, "Why?" As in, "why bother?". After a lot of thinking, I came to the decision that I need to do something NOW. With my job situation being what it is, I am going to be having A LOT coming at me at warp speed. I really need to get my personal life under control. So, I am looking into hiring a realtor and getting our house on the market. Even though I love my home, and this will break what is little left of my heart, it is an anchor around my neck. And, H knows this and is getting a lot of mileage from it. Just making this decision has given me much peace. I feel like, at least, I will be making some progress to get my life back on track. I feel like I have been in this deep, dark, black hole for going on two years and every time I try to start climbing out, I slide back down into the darkness. Please pray for God to give me the strength to climb out. I just hope that H doesn't fight me on this.<P>Hi Lizzie,<BR>I really like your suggestion. And, I've contemplated it, myself. But, I'm afraid that if I left, I just wouldn't come back!! I am still on Zoloft, so I guess I'm the Zoloft queen!! Once I get out from under this mortgage, I will have many more options available to me. I am sooooo ready to move on with my life.<P>Once again, thank you one and all. Don't think I could have come this far without all of you.

Hi Sidney,<P>Sorry I didn't see your post earlier. I think the vote is unanimous. The man needs his meds, but you have done all you can, it's up to him.<P>About the Jackson/Clinton comments, you are seeing glimpses of the "old H". For some reason, this seems to be common with WS. It's appears to be a form of compartmentalization with each box separated from the other by the biggest honkin' walls you could ever imagine. On the upside, that part of him still exists.<P>We've talked on this forum many times and I know how much you've tried and the effort you've put forth. I think it may be time for you to just think about yourself and make the decisions on the job front that are best for you. Who knows? Maybe your H needs this kind of shake-up as much as you do.<P>I don't think your H will fight much on the house sale. He really doesn't seem motivated for much at all right now.<P>You asked above how you could believe him if he told you the affair was over. If you see other big changes(positive) along with this, I would believe him. It's obvious that he does love you, but somehow he got too close to Sheba's X and caught the "whack-a-doodle" virus. His behavior totally baffles me.<P>However, my concern is for you. It's time for you to do what you need to. If you keep this up, you could end up goofy, too.<P>Lots of love,<BR>--DeWayne--

Hi DeWayne,<BR>I feel like we're having a class reunion! So good to hear from you. Yes, I think that I've finally gotten to the point of acceptance. I have done more than most people would have, under the circumstances. It's time to put it into God's hands. I logged onto a co-dependance website yesterday, and was reading about how sometimes the worst thing one can do is enable the destructive behavior. That's exactly what I have been doing. By always being there to pick up the pieces, he has not been forced to come to grips with his illness and make the necessary changes. He is so out of control that it really frightens me.<P>He came home last night and slept in our spare bedroom. This morning before I left for work, I knocked on the door then poked my head in and asked him if he was going to be around on Saturday. After letting out a big sigh, he says, "yes". Then I told him that I'd like to have a couple of realtors out so that we can list the house. He says, "don't you think we should get an appraisal first?" (I see this as another stall tactic.) I told him that we could do that at the same time if he wanted. He then grunted, "okay".<P>I'm feeling pretty run down at the moment. Haven't slept well for two nights. I do feel more positive, though, for making this decision. It was a tough one. <BR>