We got into a big blowout fight yesterday. H, once again, changed his e-mail password so that I wouldn't have access to it (something he hasn't done in a year). I asked him what it was, and he said "hammer". I tried it, and tried it, and it didn't work. He insisted that it was the right one and didn't know why it wasn't working. I called BS on him, saying that he was on it all the time, and he knew damn well that he had lied about the password.<P>He got defensive, saying "yes, I did change it. You don't need to know my password - I'm entitled to a little bit of privacy!" And we got into a huge fight over this! He absolutely was adamant that I not know his password, and when I asked him what he was trying to hide, he would say, "nothing - I just want ONE thing that I can call mine. I'm not trying to hide anything." It was to the point where I basically told him either stop hiding $#!t or I was out the door, and he still wouldn't give up the password. I finally went under the mainframe of our Compuserve account, deleted his screen name altogether, and changed the mainframe password so that he couldn't go back in and recover it. <P>He said that he shouldn't have to be "accountable" for every little thing that he does. He should be able to have a private screen name that I don't have access to, and that he should be able to have "a couple of hours a week" to himself where he doesn't have to tell me what he's doing. This attitude turnaround started right after we came back from SC, and I haven't figured out the cause for it yet (new job? new class?) I can see the big warning signs flashing in front of me, even though he says I worry about him having an affair way too much (duh, ya think?! ) He won't stop lying, and when he gets busted he tries to justify his lying by saying he's entitled to some privacy and that he wants to shut me up. He hasn't made any effort whatsoever to regain my trust.<P>My heart is just sick right now. Even today, he doesn't have to be at school until 3:30 pm, but he left the house around 9:30 without telling me (he just said that he was going to stop and talk to the career counselor at his college "sometime", but why leave 6 hours before his class starts?!)<P>He keeps going off on this tangent that I'm treating him like a child, he's 28 years old, he doesn't have to answer to me, yada, yada, yada. I don't know what to do - I've tried Plan Aing, I've tried talking to him about it, and nothing seems to work. I do know that I won't continue to live like this. I can't put my life on hold to worry about what my husband is doing, and he doesn't want to do anything to ease my mind. I don't like the person that I've become since this affair mess - this icky, jealous, obsessive woman is NOT who I want to be!<P>What do I do? I'm open to just about anything, I'm about in tears and I'm at work right now (good one, CB!) The more time that goes by without hearing a word from him, the more inclined I am to leave work, find him, and (verbally) stomp a mudhole in his [censored] and walk it dry. I can't f'n do this anymore!!! HELP!!!!!!!!

Belle, I'm the WS in my marriage and I can tell you that the insistence on privacy is usually an indication that there's something to hide. During my A (which is over, thankfully), I was secretive about everything - and always saying how I needed time to myself, privacy, possibly even a vacation by myself.<P>I don't know much about your situation, but have you and your H tried counseling? Even if he won't go, do it for yourself - it will save your sanity and help you deal with what's going on.<P>I know how hard it is when your H is denying any wrongdoing - you feel like you're losing your mind. I made my H feel that way, and I'd give anything to take it all back.<P>{{{{Hugs}}}}}

CB,<BR>I'd like to reassure you, but I agree with Susie. If he's not preparing for or having an affair, he is selfish & immature, and, you don't want the first and if it's the latter it is not likely to change anytime soon.<P>The soil here is a red clay that hardens to the consistancy of cement, if you decide to go physical rather than verbal, would you like me to ship you some? <P>On a more practical note...you've been at this some time. Doing Plan A when your temper isn't getting away from you. There's a line from the movie 28 DAYS where they say something like "the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome."<P>Plan A made an impact on my H, it made him know I loved him and it made him feel guilty. I also found Plan A to be a little easier to carry out when we were separated, because then I didn't have to be nice all the time . But it didn't change his behavior, although he tried over and over, it wasn't until, after 18 months I said, "I will not do this anymore, that's it" that I saw a true change, a change that has lasted a year now, although we've been back together only 8 of those months. <P>Have you considered Plan B, or something different? Otherwise, I'm afraid he's just going to drive you nuts. You obviously have a firey personality (not meaning it as a negative), maybe something like TOUGH LOVE by Dobson or DIVORCE BUSTING by Weiner-Davis would supplement or suit you better. Other books/methods that helped me were:<P>HOW TO GET YOUR LOVER BACK by Harris<BR>THE RULES by Feinstein (I think?)<P>If you aren't seeing a counselor I would also highly recommend you do, to help you deal with the emotions this situation & your husband is putting you through.<P>Great vent, by the way, you do have a way with images. <P>

Hi CB,<P> I agree with Susie, my H said and did the same thing......in order to hide his going ons. Typical saying,"don't treat me like a child" and "I think I'm entitled to a little privacy", "I feel like I'm in prison".<P> You have every right to be upset, have you counseled with Steve H? <P> To Susie,<P> Thank you for being on this board and giving us the other side. I don't know if you realize how much you help people(me) by your posts.......LU

Well, I guess he called around 5 minutes after I left for lunch from his local fishing hole. I asked my lunch relief if it sounded like he was at a pay phone, and she said that it was definitely a noisy background, that she could hear cars. So who knows.<P>Suse - that's what I was afraid of. I'm not going to be naive and ignore the signs this time. I won't go through this again, and I refuse to enable his behavior.<P>Lor - I agree. I spent my lunch driving around (looking for him), and I'm going to write him a letter telling him to meet me halfway. I'm also going to let him know that either the lying and secrecy stops, or I'm gone (Plan B). I love him to death, but I'm losing my sanity wondering what he's doing.<P>I've heard a lot of good things about <I>Love Must Be Tough</I>. I'll look for it today. Being a doormat just isn't in my nature (if you haven't noticed! )<P>I think that our H's are a lot alike, which is why I'm always so grateful for your advice! I'm beginning to think that I need to put my foot down. I guess my only question is how do you know when they're for real? We've already separated once, he gave me the "I'm sorry, I've changed, I don't want to lose you..." speech. How do I know that he's not "crying wolf"?<P>Lu - Thank you for assuring me that I'm not the one being out of line on this. I have counseled with Jennifer a couple of times, and I think I'm going to set up a sanity appt here real soon.<P>Thanks again, guys!

CB<BR> Bless your heart, I've lived what you're going through. Tell him that if he wants something that he can call "just his," hand him a toothbrush and promise him you'll never use it. My H did the same thing with his voice mail code..told me it was childish and unnecessary that I have the code and that it would ruin his business as I would delete his messages from customers. Duh! Why would I want to sabotage our income? <P>I also heard, "you're obsessing about this affair, what is wrong with you? You're ruining our marriage with your obsessions. It's over." You're talking to the addiction and it'll do no good. It makes them insane.<P>The best advice (some of which I didn't take unfortunately until later) is to focus on yourself, don't let the situation control your life, and stay on your knees in prayer.

CB--<BR>Re: how do you know when they're crying wolf?---you're asking the wrong person, may I remind you we separated AND reconciled 7 times? Not knowing if I can believe him--broken promises, broken several times--have certainly made this all much more difficult.<P>The thing is, he wanted me to believe him, he wanted to be telling me the truth...it's just that he had one truth when he was with me and another (or more?) truths depending on who else he was talking to. I do believe he has now straightened this all out, but sometimes I wonder why I think I would know? But that thought just makes me ride my own roller coaster, and I avoid it.<P>AM Hurt--toothbrush...cute.

Update - H came to my job and visited about an hour ago, and I gave him the "Tough Love" letter before I could let him sweettalk me. He read it, threw the letter back at me, but said that he would do what he had to do to save our marriage. I don't know if he took me seriously or not, but his password is now stored into our harddrive (he still won't tell me what the damn thing is ), and he says he'll account for whatever I ask. <P>I basically told him that for trust to be restored, he needed to stop shutting doors in my face. If he shuts a door on me, I'll get a battering ram and splinter the damn thing. But if he leaves the doors open, that doesn't necessarily mean I'll go through them at every opportunity - I just need to know for my own peace of mind that the door is open, not shut. (Did that make sense?) He says he understands, and so we'll go from there.<P>Lor - I know, I'll put my roller coaster up against Six Flags, Disneyworld, and all the rest (and I'll put his OW up against any Funhouse image you can come up with! But that's a whole different post!) Anyway, thanks again, hon!<P>AM Hurt - You know, I hate the circumstances that brought me to this forum, but I am so grateful that I have y'all to help me keep my priorities straight. I will follow your advice! Thanks!<p>[This message has been edited by Carolina Belle (edited January 22, 2001).]

Hang in there but stick to your guns. You know there is nothing stronger than a "Steel Magnolia", even if it is a transplanted one, maybe they are the strongest ones of all. :

Belle,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>stomp a mudhole in his [censored] and walk it dry<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You made me Laugh out loud when I read this! I just love our Southren vernacular...<P>Seriously...I'll pull out MB stfuff for you now...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Privacy isn't something that improves marriages, It's honesty and openness that improves marriages. (page 41 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><LI> <B>The Rule of Protection:</B> Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Care:</B> Meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Time:</B> Take time to give your spouse undivided attention.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Honesty:</B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse.<BR>[/list] <BR>(7) - The Rule of Protection<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The Rule of Protection:</B> Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness. (page 90 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Love busters: the most obvious way to destroy love<BR>Angry outbursts<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When anger wins, love loses. (page 92 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Disrespectful judgments<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever someone tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on someone else. (page 93 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Selfish demands<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When one spouse wins and the other loses, the marriage loses. (page 96 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thoughtless decisions: a less obvious way to destroy love<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>... Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse. (page 97 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thoughtfulness: the objective of marital negotiation<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If a couple are committed to avoid any decision until they come to a mutually enthusiastic agreement, eventually they learn how to negotiate. (page 98 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>How to negotiate with the policy of joint agreement<BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> Set ground rules to make negotiation pleasant and safe.<BR><LI> Identify the problem from the perspective of both you and your spouse.<BR><LI> Brainstorm solutions with abandon.<BR><LI> Choose a solution that is appealing to both of you.<BR></OL> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If your negotiation becomes unpleasant or unsafe to either of you, break it off and choose another time to discuss the issue. (page 100 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you can begin with an understanding that a solution cannot be chosen until you have enthusiastic agreement, you will be amazed at how quickly you can find agreement. (page 103 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It is recommended to couples that they learn to say something like, I'm not very enthusiastic about this situation, will you negotiate with me? (page 104 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The policy of joint agreement offers complete protection<BR>The policy of joint agreement creates a compatible lifestyle<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When a couple create a lifestyle that they each enjoy and appreciate, they build compatibility into their marriage. (page 106 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You can be the greatest cause of your spouse's unhappiness<BR>(8) - The Rule of Care<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The Rule of Care:</B> Meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>. (page 110 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Learing to meet each other's emotioanl needs in marriage is far less complicated than going throughthe agonizing ritual of affairs and divorce. (page 111 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> The Rule of Care - step 1: Identify the most important emotional needs<BR><LI> The Rule of Care - step 2: Become an expert at meeting the most important emotional needs<BR></OL><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You must ask if you want to know where to put your greatest effort. (page 113 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Couples who focus their attention on each other's top five emotional needs have a sensational marriage. (page 115 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We can't meet our most important emotional needs ourselves - other must meet them for us. (page 117 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A good marriage becomes almost effortless when spouses develop habits that meet each other's needs. (page 118 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A positive suggestion is much more encouraging than critisim. (page 119 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Meet each other's needs in ways that are mutually enjoyable<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Never expect your spouse to suffer or sacrafice so that your need can be met. (page 120 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You can be the cause of your spouse's greatest happiness<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You must be each other's greatest source of happiness if you want to have a successful marriage. (page 121 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Feedback from your spouse as to how you are doing at meeting his or her emotional needs is absolutely essential in your becoming an expert. (page 122 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>(9) - The Rule of Time<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The Rule of Time:</B> Take time to give your spouse undivided attention. (page 127 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The right way to meet all important emotional needs is to schedule time to meet them all. (page 130 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Spouses need to be emotionally connected on almost a daily basis to sustain their love for each other. (page 131 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Scheduling time for undivided attention<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A couple's love for each other cannot be created or sustained without time for undivided attention. (page 133 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It is recommended that couples schedule the same hours week after week to be alone with your spouse. (page 133 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Recreational companionship<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Couples often make the fatal mistakes of going their separate ways when an activity becomes boring to one of the spouses. (page 135 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>(10) - The Rule of Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The Rule of Honesty:</B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse. (page 139 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Emotional Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Emotional Honesty:</B> Reveal your emotional reactions - both positive and negative - to the events of your life, particularly to your spouse's behavior. (page 140 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Historical Honesty:</B> Reveal information about your personal history, particularly events that demonstrate personal weakness or failure. (page 142 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Current Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Current Honesty:</B> Reveal information about the events of your day. Provide your spouse with a calendar of your activities, with special emphasis on those that may affect your spouse. (page 143 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Future Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Future Honesty:</B> Reveal your thoughts and plans regarding future activities and objectives. (page 145 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Complete Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Complete Honesty:</B> Do not leave your spouse with a false impression about your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history, daily activities, or plans for the future. Do not deliberately keep personal information from your spouse. (page 146 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Creating an environment for honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You encourage homesty when you value honesty. (page 148 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Don't wrap your honesty in love busters<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you are to be honest with your spouse, you must be willing to reveal your feelings without Love Busters. (page 150 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Honesty means being persistent<BR>(11) - Managing resentment and restoring trust<BR>Living with the memory of an affair<BR>The more there is to resent, the more difficult resentment is to overcome<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>An emotional reaction to a painful event fades over time, as long as the painful event is not repeated. (page 154 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Focusing on the present and future can help diminsh resentment<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When marriages recover completely, using the four rules, resentment almost always fades away. (page 157 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Avoid using resentment as a love buster<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Resentment is a feeling, and Love Busters are tempting reactions to that feeling (page 157 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Restoring trust<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Trust is the belief that our spouses will be honest with us and will protect our feelings. (page 158 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Someone unwilling to follow the Rule of Protection is unwilling to protect our feelings. (page 160 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>(12) - Renewing marital commitment<BR>Marital recovery agreement<BR>A final warning: protect your love bank from the deposits of others<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Make it easy for your spouse, and make it relatively difficult for others to deposit love units. (page 170 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you ever find yourself infatuated with someone other than your spouse, don't walk away, RUN! (page 171 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>To maintain a strong marital relationship, the four rules must be continually followed. (page 172 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR>I know I just dumped a truck-load of info on you...Take time to think it through...<P>Have you and your H set up a formal plan for your marrital recovery?<P>Read back over the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A> <B>ASK</B> your H to do so with you...<P>It sounds to me like you may be either not meet some <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A><BR>committing <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>...<P>Talk to him...sit down together and tak the questionares posted on the site here...talk...negotiate...<P>Y'all can do this...your trick is going to be avoiding those <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A><P>Just your friendly Carolina boy giving you his take <P>Bill<P>

Sing - Thanks hon! <P>Bill - I think that the Middle East has had more peaceful negotiations that my H and I, but it's worth another try. Thank you so much for all of the information - no, we're not on a formal plan together - Jennifer helped me to get on an individual plan, but we still aren't joint as of yet. But I am very grateful for the swift kick in the pants there Lord knows I need it sometimes!