Just completed the program in Minn. I filed for divorce and had resigned myself that this was the only way to have a chance for happiness after 18 yrs. of incessant verbal abuse and putting everyone else's needs BEFORE mine. In the process I met a beautiful man who already practiced many of the principals of Marriage Builders. So now here I am. My infidelity exposed, and husband pleading for us to try again despite 18 yrs. of "lets give it another try". I said goodby to the OM; the OM who didn't yell, who I could say anything to without fear of reprisals and judgements, the OM who did all the things this program says to do. Its not fair, its so unfair! But I'm back at the gate again, trying again. So why don't I feel good about this? Why don't I just want to go away? Why is it taking everything I have to spend a minute much less 15 hours a week with a husband who doesn't deserve me? Tell me people, when does the self pity stop? Or is it?

this isn't going to be the most conventional adice here.and probably get a post or two that says...Mercy you are out of line...but here it goes.<P>WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?? I am not saying go to OM but i am saying...get out of the abuse. NO man is worth the abuse..YOU are NOT worth the abuse. You will never ever be the same. Abuse is bad, i lived with it for 10 yrs and now i am on a fence. No he is no longer abusive, but, i am not longer naive. I am not the same person and life is tough with someone you remember as mean mean mean.even if it doesn't stil happen.<P>get out while you can. say goodbye to both OM and the husband. Find yourself before you can find and give to anyone else.<P>good luck,<BR>mercy

Hi,<P>1) All OM and OW are great at meeting the emotional needs of the WS. Otherwise, who would be attracted to them! But the reality is, if the OP are married to other people, they are more often than not SH#^%* at meeting the needs of their spouses! Sad but true...<P>2) Your spouse needs to learn how to stop abusing and communicate. Period. If you perceive it to be as bad as you described it here, then you DO need to separate.<P>I said separate! You probably don't think he can change, and maybe he can't but he needs to take the opportunity to try to stop this behavior. <P>And you deserve the marriage you want. But you're going to kick yourself in the behind if after you divorce him you find out he totally reforms and gives his next wife nothin but coos and sweet-nothings in her ear!<P>Separate with the condition that he gets counseling or anger management or some kind of marriage communications 101 training and see what develops. Also take this time to get counseling for yourself so that you can get what you want out of your life. <P>You're being gone may give your H the wake up call he needs. If it doesn't, you're not obligated to go back.<P> At least you won't be there for him to verbally lash out at anymore--cause after affairs are discovered, the lashing out can get very nasty.<P> If you've lost love for your H right now, spare yourself the abuse. Staying will only cause you to despise him.<P>I agree with Mercy 100% with the clarification that until you straighten out what is wrong with your relationships (and you can define what your needs and lovebusters really are--for yourself as well as communicating this to your H so he has a clue) you shouldn't even be thinking of looking for another relationship at this point.<P>My H had an A with a married OW (his only A but it was her 2nd!). The A started with her sobbing to my H how verbally abusive and uncommunicative he was and how he was basically a loser and a monster. Did that give her the "right" to have an A with my H? Have her needs met at the cost of my relationship with my H? Having her needs met at the cost of her two little children? No! No! No!<P>All she had to do was tell her H, "TIME OUT!"<BR>Get counseling, I'm going to stay at my friends, Move out--ANYTHING would have been more productive than staying in a bad marriage while constantly looking for her EN's to be filled by men outside of her marriage.<P>Neither her or her H made any changes in their marriage or themselves after her first A. They learned nothing from it, so they were doomed to continue hurting eachother and she inevitably caused further destruction to herself and other people.<P>The pain she caused and the torture she is going thru alone right now could all have been so preventable, it's unbearably sad!<P>Plan B your husband, Hon. I know you're a WS but Plan B can work for you--it might just help give your H the chance he desperately needs to work on himself WHILE it also helps prepare and strengthen you to be happy whether you live with him or not.<P>The OW in our case has not learned how to work positively towards getting what she wants out of life. She will inevitably remain miserable because she doesn't know the right way to go about being happy. <P>Her verbally abuse H eventually got sick of waiting for her to love him and he kicked her out of the house, got custody of their boys and filed for divorce.<P>Please take the opportunity to learn from your past.<BR> <BR>Aloha,<P> L <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited January 23, 2001).]

Thanks so much for your response. In theory I think the Marriage Builders program is a good plan but I'm so angry and withdrawn now that I just can't hop on board, embracing the concept with open arms as my H would hope. If he would just give me some time to regroup mentally. *sigh* I am ending the liason with not because I want to or even because of H, but for GOD! It's bad luck to mess up with God and it's easier for me to throw back my shoulders and try again with that belief. I just don't want to be one of "those women" who continually go back to the abusive spouse after a million and one walk outs. I have to believe that with prayer just maybe H will straighten out, or if not God will tell me what to do. I still think though that this struggle sucks! and have to ask myself what flaw in me do I have to correct that I would allow this verbal abuse to go on for 18 yrs. What a waste! And my kids? They seem to only remember the bad. Oh well, thanks again for the support, I'll need it for the long struggle ahead.

B,<P>So what was course of action are you deciding upon, Hon?<P>You say you can't get into this MB recovery plan "as your H would hope". Does this mean he thinks HE is following the MB principles as well? If he's verbally abusive, he is definately not. <P>You were so right about needing some time to "regroup" and your H not letting you have that. If he was following MB principles (which are based on Christian teachings), he would give you that needed time and not push you the way he is. This is also where the OW's H failed when he said he first said he wanted to stay married to her because he loved her so. <P>But apparently he loved to continue in his old ways even more than he wanted to save his marriage.<P>Stop beating yourself up. Move towards doing something "proactive" here. <P>And God bless!<P>L

If your H is verbally abusive, and you cannot take it anymore, I think that even Harley would agree that at least a separation is in place. There is more than one way to break a vow; breaking the vow to love, honor and respect is just as tantamount as an EMR could ever be. Your H has broken his vows to you. Now ... what will you do? Will you give him another 18 years of your life, letting him abuse you? Or will you draw the line in the sand and insist that he straighten up and fly right before the two of you try to mend?<P>Now. That said, an OM is never the answer. My H has borderline personality disorder, and believe me, that is a tough one to live with. In the past, I too have had fantasies about "Mr. Right" rescuing me. But you know what? They were only fantasies. Good intentions are not enough; and even though this OM might have them, they are not his intentions to give you. The only role he has in your life is to see that you get into counseling and to a safe place, if you feel you are in danger. It is the hardest thing to do, but you must do this for yourself, on your own. "Physician, heal thyself."<P>blessings,<P>belld

ok, Belldandy, what the heck is an EMR? I was sick at school that day.<P>Agreed with everything you said BUT, IMHO, I don't believe the OM should have a current role in her life. I think he was the wake up call that something was wrong and needed to be looked at within her marriage. He served his purpose. <P>My H is an (ex) OM and I don't think it is his role to see ex-OW get into counseling or to provide a safe place if she was in danger from her H.<P>(But honestly, and to confuse the issue: <B>I</B>actually was the person who told her she needed to go see a counselor, get on antidepressants, find supportive friends, see a religious leader for spiritual guidance (not Jesse Jackson!) and even offered her my home if her H tried to harm her or her kids, and call on me if she needed to talk to someone as she was getting to be suicidal.) I'm still getting alot of flack for that one! But if I had to do it all over again, I don't think I would have done any differently.

BeBarbe2<P>This is my first reply post, so here goes. Ive learned alot from this website in past month. W had A and decided divorcing was her way out. My wife claims to a degree that she was verbally abused and I have greatly struggled with this to understand how whe view "verbal abuse". <P>I now realize that my WS has always been a great conflict avoider and has always run from any kind of conflicting and decision making kind of issues.<P>Do not put up with verbal abuse! but let him know what you see as verbal abuse, wether it is tone of voice or direct "putdowns" or anything that makes you feel less!<P>You must communicate with him and tell him specifically how you feel. This is something my wife never did. She just held all this resentment inside of her till it one day just exploded. What I saw was trying to overcome situations and challenges was somehow taking her out of the decision making and making her feel less of a woman and partner to me, she felt distant(my own observation and self analysis)<P>I GREATLY commend you for your faith in GOD. Yes you did fo back for you know GOD can move mountains and change people! Your husband may just need a little coaching: that may be from you or someone else(counseling). BUT, YOU MUST TELL HIM WHAT IS GOING ON......please,do not "generalize" that your not happy and he is hurting you. You must be very detailed and specific to him. Like I said if you can't tell him let someone else. <P>My wife is walking out on a 9yr marriage and separating a 5yr/o sons home and has not even resolved anything for herself other than she feels like she is not in love anymore and that we cant communicate. and she is still continuing the affair even though we are not D yet.<P>In my opinion, write him letters explaining how you feel, you cannot put up with verbal abuse anylonger, maybe seperate and pray like heck. GOD will greatly honor you for staying w you husband and not spliting up your home. <P>You can do it! Take what you can and have learned from this website and apply it.<P>I just wish my wife was a morally convicted as you are.......this is why I posted, hope it helped!<P>A Broken Man<P>

Bebar..<P>I agree w/ the rest separate for awhile..<BR>look for the changes in him..<P>I agree that he should seek counseling as a condition for your returning home..but to be honest..he needs those changes while your away from him for awhile..yes, he will get angrier at you for leaving..and he will lash<BR>out the only way he knows how to until he<BR>learns to communicate effectively...and to deal w/ his anger effetively...<P>I separated from my stbx because I couldn't take it anymore..but as of yet he hasn't been to counseling..(he doesn't think he has a drinking problem) but, I am prayerful that<BR>last night may have been an eye opener for him...I'd taken my kids to talk to my counselor last night..(they requested it)<BR>so her and I talked and agreed it would be good for them..they all expressed how they are afraid of going to spend time w/ him because he drinks and gets mean..she offered to call him and talk to him..and they all readily agreed to it being okay..so she's called him...don't know what was said at this point..but I guess I'll find out later...<P>But by under no means go back until you <BR>feel it will be safe for you to return..