Unless we've invited others here and they can identify us, we're anonymous. We're all going through trials. Infidelity in a marriage is not ususally something we talk about with just anyone, but we talk about it here. And infidelity brings complications.<P>When I read something by someone who says they are a long time poster and they have done something that they think is out of character so have switched to a new identity...they get anonymous advice. They get a version of NSR's welcome (as wonderful as that is! If they are long term MBers, they know that information). They've missed out on someone connecting with the whole of their situation & helping.<P>Even when I knew my friends would think I was off-track, I posted as myself, but they knew where I had been & what I had been through, and at that time I received some of the most poignant & memorable advice I have received in the 2+ years I have posted on MB. Even as my H was reading and posting on the board. And there are many others who have done the same as I--posting with their insights, mistakes, strides & decisions.<P>I understand, that we all--a little--create ourselves, or, may tell just our version of what is happening, a lot of us are fair & get fairer about reporting our situations, because we want to give as many details as will give us the best advice...we're really lost at times.<P>Anyway, I just wanted to throw this into the discussion, as it isn't that I want to know "Who did that?" but "How can I really help?"<P>And this doesn't apply to those who change names because as their story goes on, the first one was too depressing. I think of, for example, No Trust who became Surivior.

Lor, I totally agree with you...who and why would someone need to run this whole gambit again. If we know their story from the onset it will be much easier for some of us to help them.<P>There certainly are a good many newcomers... don't you think? Is this type of turn over common on here? And, My God, the issues...whew, I'm exhausted after reading some and get brain dead on how or what to say. <P>I feel like I'm not giving back to the board who has been so helpful to me. These newbies need our advice and I don't know with whom I should begin. I guess I'll jump in here somewhere and start cleaning house.<P>BTW, thanks for posting to me earlier. It is still an issue that ,as usual, will be avoided. But, I have been advised to sit tight for a while on this alcohol issue, because it was an experiment H was doing to see if he could control it...Past behavior should tell him the eventual outcome. Therefore, I haven't taken any drastic steps...if I do, the first one will be co-dependency workshops for me. I do need to become less obsessed with what he is doing.<P>Thanks again, you are so helpful and it was great to hear from a few of you oldies but goldies!!!!!<P>Cathy

Preservation of the character they created or self preservation?<P>Kind of the same as plain old embarrassment.<P>I think you hit the nail on the head, tho.<P>Like Catholics who go to confession in a darkened confessional booth with the priest not looking at you. (Raising my hand!) You can afford to be more honest and you can more easily take the horrified responses you may get. It would be harder to take from "friends".<P>And if you turn around and help someone after doing something you were embarrassed about, there is the fear that your advice won't be taken seriously. <P>i.e. Bill Clinton after Monica?<BR>Jesse Jackson?<P>I don't blame "our people" when you think in that light. <P>But I also don't think being "redundantly anonymous" is really necessary. Unless they want to rationalize their mistake and keep doing the damaging behavior. <P>We all make mistakes. We help eachother when we share and learn from them no matter what our name. <P>------------------<BR><I>No rain, no rainbows</I>

leilana wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Kind of the same as plain old embarrassment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, I think it's more than that, and I want to thank Lor for bringing it up.<P>There have been a couple members lately who have done this, and I think it violates our trust on this board. I mean, saving face is so important that you'd lie about who yu are to your friends here, despite the fact we really don't know you anyway? This cheapens the board.<P>I think what's worse, though, pertains to the latest person ,whatnow. This person's spouse does not know of this incident so he's violating the very first principle that we all need to recover...The rule of Honesty. He's really asking us to be a part of it too. I resisted the temptation to respond on that thread because I didn't it deserved a response, but it really kind-of ticks me off!!<P>Whatnow should realize that the truth sets you free. Maybe he wants to hold onto the lie that he is "superior" to his S. Telling the truth about my own weaknesses has only brought me closer to my W. Guess that's a gift tha Whatnow is too selfish to give.<BR>Dave

I have to say that I understood the embarassment of the poster who had a threesome but I think she started something. I don't get it. We are anonymous as echoed by others on this board. If you tell the whole truth of your story then the members here can give you advice that pertains to your WHOLE situation. Everybody here has been very accepting. There have been a few times in the last year that I saw an OP get flamed but only because they were completely unreal about their situation.<BR>In summing up my little ramble here - Nobody know you you are anyway. We are here to help eachother. What you are going through is a piece of a puzzle. You need advice that fits the relationship. There is no reason to hide. And, if you do get in trouble for something that you did, well thats because you deserve it! You know it or you wouldn't be hiding. It's your personal jiminy cricket saying "psssst...you shouldn't have done that"<BR>I certainly would want people to know if I really needed help. They probably would understand better why I was doing a particular behavior all things considered.<P>cleo

Excellent thread, Lor.<P>I think you summarize what we would like to see very well. On the other hand, I think Leilana hit something when she mentions the fear that your advice won't be taken seriously if you tell about your own problems/mistakes.<P>It seems to me that the friendships here are real, although different. A lot of people get ENs met here thru the relationships, which may be ENs which would be better met in their marriage, or just legitimate needs for friends. It does make it harder for them to be open and risk rejection.<P>Long term, though, the ability to risk openness to others is an important part of emotional maturity and healing. Just because someone has problems doesn't mean they haven't tried, or that they don't know MB principles. Some have been dealt a pretty tough hand to play.<P>So, it can be tough, but I too would prefer to see people be open about who they are. Being so, and still finding acceptance, might prove to be the key to their being helped.<P>Steve

I think the rule of honesty is what this is all about. A couple of days ago, I suggested to my wife that she register here and start posting. We're at a very difficult time, which may prove to be the threshold of divorce (I hope and pray not, but that's the reality). Last night, I showed her how to get here and how to register. She put it off for a while and spent most of her evening on the computer with the OM. But before she went to bed, she spent almost an hour looking for and reading my posts. She wanted to find my <I>first</I> post most of all. I have to admit I was a little nervous. I don't remember everything I've posted here. Some of the times that I post here are times of deep depression or extreme anger. I never planned on her reading any of it when I typed it. I was a little worried that I'd posted some yucky, disrespectful stuff that she might find and get angry. <P>I'm getting to the point now...<P>When she was through, I got on and re-read some of my old posts. I AM SO PROUD OF MYSELF. Clearly some of what she read may have hurt her, but I wouldn't change a thing. Everything I've posted has been out of love for my wife and care for our marriage. But if people come out her to rag on their spouses or blame them for all of their problems, I can see why they'd want to change their ID if they found themselves in my situation (your S reading your posts). But the rule of honesty fixes that. If I can be honest with myself about my mistakes/failures/problems and start to fix those things, I have nothing to hide. If I imagine my wife is watching every minute of my day, I'm going to curb destructive behavior.<P>In other words, when you post here, if you're angry, be angry. If you're sad/depressed, fine, be sad and depressed. VENT. Vent all you want and need. Let it all out!!! But remember that even in our darkest hour, we are married to someone who deserves our love and respect. If you don't feel that way, what are you doing here? Be honest with yourself and the members of this board when you come here. If you can do that, you may save your marriage. And you'll never have a need to change you ID, here or at home.<P>For what it's worth,<BR><P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."

Okay, let's see if I'm calm enough to reply rationally here.<P>I read through what Lor had to say, and Catplay, and Leilana, and I absolutely respect what they had to say. But that's because of the way that they formulated their posts. But Dave's arrogant reply really angered me. There is absolutely <B> no</B> call for the holier-than-thou attitude. Wow buddy, it must be nice to be so perfect that you're worthy of casting that first stone!<P>Now, I have posted under a different name <B>one time</B>. Unfortunately, I do not have access to a computer that is completely mine. There are a couple of nosy people here at my job who have figured out my alias on here (I go on here when it's slow, which during the wintertime, is often. But since I knew next to nothing about the Internet, I didn't realize that you could "scroll down" to find the last few sites accessed. All of a sudden I have people at my job telling me to "leave the [censored]," and I can't figure out why.) <P>On the homefront - same thing. My H has access to this computer (which is not a problem - there aren't any secrets between my H and I, and he is a lurker here.) But my mother also uses my PC. I love my mom to death, but she also knows about this site and my screenname, and she likes to check on what's happening.<P>It was not my intention to open up a can of worms with my anonymous post - I had seen two other people do it before me in the time that I've been here. I needed help, and I didn't want anybody I'm in physical contact with on a daily basis finding out what happened with me. I can handle the whispers whenever I walk into a room (I'd like to think it's because of my dazzling presence ), but I would rather not be shunned outright by my peers, and had I posted under this name, the news would have spread like wildfire.<P>I needed help. I was upset, but from 8 to 5 Monday through Friday (and some Saturdays) I have to be Marcia F'n Brady. No matter how sh*tty I feel, I have to be perky and sweet, and at times, I want to kill myself! This forum has saved my sanity many times, since the "leave the [censored]" sentiment is the only one I've gotten from my "friends" up here. I let it be known in my anonymous post that I was a regular so that y'all would know that I was familiar with MB. I just didn't know how to handle the predicament that I had gotten into, and I needed some peace of mind that my family or coworkers wouldn't find out anything about that. I am getting better at covering my tracks online, but I needed to be assured.<P>I don't know about the others who have posted anonymously, I can only speak for myself. This forum is meant to help people, and I don't think that <B>any</B> cry for help should be undermined by anybody here, especially when we aren't aware of the circumstances.<p>[This message has been edited by Carolina Belle (edited January 23, 2001).]

CB,<P>I have complete sympathy for you, and no problem with what you describe. It sounds to me like you've already been more open and faced more humiliation than most of us would like.<P>Anyway, I haven't followed all your ups and downs, but I've liked you ever since I read that you beat up the ex-best friend who had the fling with your H . I still grin when I think about it.<P>I'm sorry you don't get much support in your new home. Hope you're hanging in ok.<P>Steve

CB,<BR>I wasn't trying to flush anyone out of the woodwork, and my first paragraph of my post includes the thought of people in your life knowing who you are here at MB. And your reasons for posting anonymously are entirely reasonable. Quite honestly, I sometimes feel guilty when I tell people about the Harley books, but not the site because I don't want my in-person friends knowing more than I'm willing to tell them. <P>Nor was I suggesting anyone ignore a post by an anonymous old timer...or by anyone else. But, whichever anonymous poster you were, if you had posted as yourself, you may have gotten more pertinent advice. Maybe not, you may have gotten an entirely different "flavor" of advice that you don't get ordinarily. I'd be curious as to what you think about that--but I don't want to further invade the privacy you want on your subject. <P>I think it is lousy that your co-workers are doing this to you.<P>When my H first posted here, and he no longer does, he posted as the WS of a regular poster, I think so I could keep privacy--as if I haven't given enough details to swamp a fleet of battleships! But I didn't know he had posted, we were separated, and I signed on in the morning and there he was--he a-familiar-to-me screenname. I know what kind of response WS get, and I outed him, probably the second day, after we had talked, but several posters recognized him as my spouse with the details he gave, I think the length of the affair & # of separations were part of that. I also emailed other of my MB friends to alert them . <P>As I read through the responses to him, I saw a definite difference in those who knew who he is and our story, and those who didn't. He thought the ones who knew were pretty tough on him. (If he only knew how many whacks with the cyber frying pan & 2 X 4 he had received in the past!) The posters unfamiliar tended to be "Oh, that's so great that you are remorseful." True, that was the beginning of his real turnaround...but he also needed to hear that to get me back at that point he needed to work hard & stay patient, Plan A. He heard that over and over & did those things. Without the encouragement here, I think he would have expected more out of me at that point...and I wasn't giving any more.<P>Oh, and he went back and read most of my posts from the previous year . I wouldn't have minded having all those deleted at that point, but it was too late by the time I realized he cared enough to do that. He hasn't read or posted since we've been back together, he'd rather avoid any of my vents not directly verbalized toward him .<P>So, that's the perspective, along with my first post, that I'm coming from. I'm actually surprised that so many people agreed with me.

Lor, although I'm relatively new here I have to agree with you. IMHO, everyone here is in the same boat (more or less) and would be more than willing to help, not judge. That's what being supportive is all about.<P>Everyone on this board has been wonderful to me. I wouldn't be ashamed to post ANYTHING here b/c I can be assured of getting excellent, compassionate advice.

Steve - Thanks for the words of encouragement! It is appreciated! <P>Lor - No, that's fine, the comments that got my blood boiling were:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I mean, saving face is so important that you'd lie about who yu are to your friends here, despite the fact we really don't know you anyway? This cheapens the board.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Whatnow should realize that the truth sets you free. Maybe he wants to hold onto the lie that he is "superior" to his S...Guess that's a gift tha Whatnow is too selfish to give.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think that accusatory comments like that "cheapen the board" more than somebody (for whatever reason) changing their name and asking for help. <P>I won't say what user name I was under or what it was regarding because it can create a damning situation on my homefront - but I never had a problem with the MBers here knowing it was me. I appreciate the fact that a guessing game won't be made of this. <P>I just wanted to put forward my situation to show that I wasn't trying to be deceitful or "lie" to my MB friends by posting under a different name. It was something that I felt that I needed to do to protect myself. <P>I do agree with you Lor, that knowing the background can help us with our advice. And like I said, I can only speak for myself as far as feeling the need for anonymity.

CB, <P>FWIW, I am sorry that you have to go through such hoola hoops to get the support you really need here. I am just glad that you are here.<BR>take care,<BR>cleo

Carolina Belle wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think that accusatory comments like that "cheapen the board" more than somebody (for whatever reason) changing their name and asking for help.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>CB,<BR>Sorry if I offended you. I ask you to take an honest look at the post I criticized. Was Whatnow really "asking for help"? I don't think so. It seemed to me he had betrayed his Spouse, at least emotionally, and was asking for people to say "that's OK". He made it clear he was going to keep this from his S. <P>Don't misunderstand me, I don't judge WN harshly for what he did, just for not being honest about it. I shudder to think of the guilt I would feel if I were working through this with my WS, knowing the terrible shame she carries over what she's done, and keeping this kind of secret.<P>Dave

Dave - The main part that I took offense to was you referring to "a couple of members" who posted under a different name to "save face" and "cheapening the board." Since I am one of the people who has done that before, naturally I took exception, and I think that my circumstances warranted me concealing my identity.<P>I did take another look at What Now's post, and it appears to me that he or she is indeed asking for help. They aren't justifying what they did, they aren't pursuing this potential OP, they know that they made a terrible, terrible mistake - the only issue is the fact that they don't want to tell their spouse. Here again, we don't know who it is or what the circumstances are.<P>What Now should tell their spouse about what happened. But I can't solidify that statement without knowing the circumstances (which brings us back to the point of this original post, and I do agree with Lor. We can be of considerably more help when we know the background on someone's situation.) <P>Our job here is to help people, not attack them. You can give the advice that you deem fit (in a constructive, not demeaning way), and they can take it or leave it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't judge WN harshly for what he did, just for not being honest about it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But it's not in our place to judge. That's my point.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Davidb:<BR><B> Was Whatnow really "asking for help"? I don't think so. It seemed to me he had betrayed his Spouse, at least emotionally, and was asking for people to say "that's OK". He made it clear he was going to keep this from his S. <P>Don't misunderstand me, I don't judge WN harshly for what he did, just for not being honest about it. <BR>Dave</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But Dave, WN was <B>honest</B> about what they were feeling and doing. Think about it, WN didn't have to post a thing, really. Could have gone on doing the nasty and no one would be the wiser until much too late. Even if WN <B>is</B> in denial about being able to handle this without telling their spouse, WN actually <I>did</I> put out a cry for help...<P>But WN made the mistake of trying to pick and choose the advice he/she is going to get. <P>Old name or new name--it just shows you that even when you should know better, you can still get trapped or stuck or make mistakes. WE'RE HUMAN! C'mon, help another human being out! <P>If that "cheapens" you, just what kind of <B>value</B> <I>do</I> you put on people? <P>Love ya under any name, Dave,<P>L<P>

Leilana wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Even if WN is in denial about being able to handle this without telling their spouse, WN actually did put out a cry for help...<P>But WN made the mistake of trying to pick and choose the advice he/she is going to get. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well,you're sure a nice lady Leilana - much more charitable than I. I guess I'm a little more from the "tough love" camp. Probably comes from beng a recovering addict - we're such manipulators.<P>Anyway, to me, only listening to what we "want to hear" is not a cry for help.<P>I remember once going to a counsellor, and him telling me I needed to quit drinking before he would help me with my other problems. I told him I'd do anything else, but not that. I wouldn't do the one thing that was the key to everything else. I don't think I really wanted his help. I was hoping he'd smooth things over for me, and I could continue to do what I was doing.<P>Anyway, I appreciate your sentiments. You're even charitable with me. Tell you what, I'll try to be a little more like you. Maybe it will help with forgiving my W <BR>Dave<BR>

Dave,<P>Did you read my response to WN?<P>Let me know what you think. And if you still think I'm "charitable". <P>L

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Dave,<BR>Did you read my response to WN?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, I just did Leilana, and you really say what I was thinking. I was particularly impressed with:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why? What are you afraid of? What do you think will happen. ......Are you afraid you will be knocked off the moral or loyalty pedestal you think your spouse has you on? What is it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You touch on just what it was that got me upset by the post. Not that he/she was <B>afraid</B> to lose the moral high ground, but was activly trying to keep it,through secrecy, depite what they had done. I suspect a person in deep conflict, and the last thing he/she needs is to be told "that's OK".<P>Yes, Leilana, I do think you're charitable. You said what needed to be said without beating them up. <BR>Dave<P>

just for the record. the only reason i started posting as new name is because OW followed me here and was replying to my posts. ( like im a moron and didnt know it was her). those of you who know me know that OW was posting here to me.... ow is a demented, ( well you know what i mean) but i changed name to avoid her thats all<BR>thanks and love to all<BR>tee