Last week my son had seventh grade exams. Needless to say, he did not know what to expect. My wife (separated WS), who tends to always over-prepare, had my son scared to death that he was going to flunk every exam if he didn't study hard enough. Fortunately, I was able to convince him of more reasonable expectations and through helping him to study, he calmed down somewhat. But for his hardest subject, Spanish, my wife had him wound up tighter than an eight day clock. What did he do? He tried to cheat. Not on a grand scale, but he wrote down some verb conjugation rules on his water bottle and got caught. Of course, we reacted as we should and went through all the stern discussions, etc, to make sure he realized the "wrongness" of cheating. He got the message, I believe. He had to write a three page essay for the teacher as his discipline in school. <BR>Afterwards, my wife and I were discussing this on the phone and we concluded he learned a life lesson - that lying and cheating are very wrong and never benefits you in the long run. She agreed and made a point to add that EVERYONE makes mistakes they can learn from. I added that first, they have to recognize and own up to the mistakes. She agreed. I wonder if she got the point?<P>WAT

Hi WAT! I don't know if I've ever replied to your posts or not, but I do always read them. You and Rick totally amaze me---you are great guys!<P>Anyway, this sounds so much like my H punishing our kids for lying. I just roll my eyes and think, wow, wouldn't it be great if you'd listen to yourself for once! Funny how everything they do is justified, but it's totally wrong for someone else....<P>You are doing a great job, keep it up!

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

There must be some deep psychological reason they can't see themselves as examples. Once my wife exclaimed in the heat of accusations from others, "I sick and tired of all these lies!"<P>Anyway, the tone of my wife's voice in this recent conversation was that she knew she had made mistakes (in the affair). Her problem is that she admits so few. Just before Christmas, she looked me straight in the eye and said she had lied to me only once about herself and her "good friend." I didn't even try to take her on with that one!!<P>OOOO, if it's any consolation, I haven't heard word one about remorse or guilt.<P>hurtinginil, thanks for the nice words. You keep standing tall, also, OK?<P>WAT

WAT,<BR>The famous statement that my wife told me about the lie was “I don’t want to tell you everything yet because I’m afraid you can’t handle it”. Sometimes she even said that she didn’t lie to me because I didn’t ask her specific question or to the point. She didn’t intend to lie but thing just changed and it was too late to tell the truth. Do you get this too?<P>OOOO<BR><p>[This message has been edited by OffOnOnOff (edited January 24, 2001).]

OOOO - similar. I determined that a lot of her lies were of the Clintonian variety. If I didn't ask the very specific question, she wouldn't tell me the whole truth. For example, last Saturday she went to the inauguration. Said a doc at her hospital came up with an extra ticket. I said, "Wow, did you go alone?" She said yes. Translation: she WENT alone. This doesn't mean she was alone after she got there.<P>I haven't gotten the "you can't handle it story."

Yes, it's amazing isn't it. Just yesterday my W found out the kids had lied about not having homework, and gave them the 'liers always get<BR>found out speech' again. Was she listening to<BR>herself?<P>I think you're right about how WS rationalize most of it. To them, secrecy is<BR>not dishonesty. It's only a lie if they are<BR>asked a direct question.<P>Seagull

WAT and OOOO, don't feel alone...My W basically told me that my wanting to know what the current(then) situation between her and OM was prying and none of my business. Her therapist told me that maybe I was "asking something W couldn't give" and that my wanting to know was a "boundary violation". What bunk!!!!

Heartpain - you've got to be zooming us! Boundary violation? And what would this therapist call her affair? A boundary expansion?<P>WAT

WAT - No, unfortunately, you haven't been "zoomed"...Read the first two or three paragraphs of this post for more complete info: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010367.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010367.html</A>

Something else interesting---last night as H was flipping through the channels, Temptation Island was on. We watched for a little bit, and he commented on how the show was evil. So, I wonder what he thinks he's been doing to me the last year??<P>WAT, I'm trying to stand as tall as I can, but when I'm 5'4" and H is 6'3", sometimes it doesn't seem like I'll ever measure up

hurtinginil - Boloney. Unless you were making a joke, your measurement is made on your heart and soul. Everybody on this board trying to save their marriages in the face of immense obstacles are HUGE souls. So stand tall - get on a ladder for effect if you need to.<P>WAT

lying by omission...<BR>it's the easiest way for a person to lie without feeling like they really did tell a tall tale. It's easier all around.<BR>They are also the hardest to figure out. Because you think you have the answer and in reality its only part of the truth. <BR>It's the nature of the beast.

WAT---it was kind of a joke, but one of those where you really meant it, kind of comments.....<P>After being beat down (not literally) and told how many things you've always done wrong, it's hard to feel any self worth and "stand tall". I'm trying, it's just hard.....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cleopatra:<BR><B>lying by omission...<BR>it's the easiest way for a person to lie without feeling like they really did tell a tall tale. It's easier all around.<BR>They are also the hardest to figure out.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know this beast very well. My H has spent the last 6 months doing exactly this. Well really the whole A time.(21 months and counting) He does not want me in his fantasy world and will not talk of it. He lies right in my face about meeting ow in Chicago on trips, his cell bill proves she was there every time. I can call him on it, but why bother. He cannot give up ow, and rufuses to even think about it. But he is not willing to give up his cozy life at home either, except that I am only the maid and nanny. I get not other communication from him and no physical touch at all. <P>But as far as me knowing anything, no he omits his fantasy life, and since that is all he can think about, he has nothing to say, and says so.<P>But to me, all along, it has felt like one BIG lie. And it is very hard to deal with, becasue it has gotten so easy for him, that I cannot tell the truth from the lies. I have to rely on my gut for that. He admits that he lies right to my face, that is the only confirmation he has given to indicate that he has been lying about meeting her.But still not direct comments, "Yes I did see her." That would be nice. But I cannot expect it, and then he get mad when I don't believe him. Silly, isn't it?