My wife and I had a long conversation last Sunday, at which time she told me that she doesn't have anything left to give, she doesn't love me, she sees no hope. She told me she won't kiss be goodbye in the morning anymore or goodnight at bedtime. She asked me to sleep on the couch. I feel like I'm being punished with the couch thing. It seems to me that she talks to me very coldly and hurts me very deeply on a daily basis. I don't deserve this. I've made huge strides in the last month to address my problems and treat her with the kind of love and respect she deserves. I feel like she can't or won't see that because she's shut me out. She won't tell me what her plans are (actually she does, but her actions don't always match her words). After the talk on Sunday, she said she doesn't want to "talk" again until she talks to her counselor (which will happen tonight). <P>I feel like I'm being treated so horribly by my wife even in the face of my giving her a lot of love and respect. I don't deserve being treated this way. I've made mistakes, but never have I mistreated her out of a lack of love or caring. I <I>have</I> mistreated her out of a lack of skill and understanding. I now have a much better/stronger understanding and I'm learning the skills. I spend every day wondering if my wife is going to break apart the most important thing in my life, my family. But she won't let me in on her plans, her ideas, her thoughts (again, she does sometimes, but then her actions seem to contradict). I feel like she leaves me sitting here wondering, hurting, scared and sad and angry. I've even learned to handle my anger with love. That's friggin <B>huge</B> for me. But it doesn't seem to matter to her. I just don't deserve this. I've been stupid, but not cruel. But now I feel that she's being cruel to me. I'm the man that's given her 7 1/2 years of my life (and wouldn't trade those years for anything), the man who cares for more that anyone on earth, yet I feel like she abuses me.<P>I'm very angry right now. I believe (and am scared about the thought that) after her counseling appt. tonight, she might be getting to some kind of decision. She'll either recommit to our marriage, ask for a separation or divorce, or not say anything to me at all. While neither of the last two options are what I want, frankly it's the 3rd option that scares me the most. I deserve to be treated respectfully and I deserve to know what's going on.<P>Please help me.<P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."<p>[This message has been edited by wld (edited January 25, 2001).]

Bill...<P>Are you taking any anit-dep medication...<BR>...if not... consider seeing your doctor about it.<P>Any support groups to help you through the tough times?...<BR>...obvious this place counts too...<BR>...but sometimes that person-to-person contact can be useful too!<P>I, personally, have relied on building my relationship with God... when my W wouldn't let me build with her.<BR>It has made me understand... that wihout that relationship... it is very hard to rebuild my marriage... or in the worse case... build a new marriage.<P> <P>Jim

Jim,<P>I've been praying and praying. I've been trying to get to church as much as possible. I've always felt I have a wonderful and close relationship with God. But, as much as I'd like to, I can't deny that right now I can't find Him anywhere in all of this. I believe He led me here (to Marriage Builders), but my marriage is still failing. When I was a kid I used to pray that someday He'd bring me together with someone whom I could love with all the love I have, and who'd love me back. He did that and now I'm loosing that gift. I don't understand why. I LOVE MY WIFE with all that I am. I love our family. Our kids deserve better that this. So do I and so does she.<p>[This message has been edited by wld (edited January 25, 2001).]

Dear Bill,<P>I feel so bad for you. I, like most people on this forum, have been where you are. Every situation is different, but after a year of trying singlehandedly to work on my marriage, and 6 months after d-day, I finally reached a point where it became clear to me that a separation might be a good thing. My H had already filed for divorce at that point and said and did all the same things yours has said and done.<P>Accepting that a separation might be good was very, very hard because it meant hurting the kids (6,4, and 2 year old boys). When I "let go", my H immediately signed a lease, but stayed here for another month until the place was ready. That was tough, but I spent my time planning how I was going to operate without him.<P>My H had his first out of the fog experience when he walked in the door of his new place the first time. For the next 2 months, he was in extreme agony trying to become comfortable with what he was doing. He waffled back and forth between his marriage and OW so many times I lost count.<P>Just recently, H has dismissed the D, given notice on his lease, told the OW it was over, and moved back in. We have a lot of work ahead of us, but I think he is committed this time to making our marriage work.<P>The point of all this is that my D had to experience the reality of separation to be able to visualize what life would be like without me and to a certain extent without his kids. I think that people in the fog don't think beyond tomorrow, or at the longest next week. They are living in a make-believe world of denial and half truths and a separation can help blow that away.<P>I'm not saying that a separation would be good for your marriage -- I don't know. I am saying that it is not always a bad thing and if you can get comfortable with it as a worst case scenario that may also hold out good hope for your marriage, it may give you some peace.<P>I know it is hard to feel close to God at a time like this, but He is the ulitmate source of peace and He has not left you! Lean on him and try to trust that He has your ultimate good in mind!<P>Do you have a support system in place? It really helped me to be able to talk with my sisters and a couple of close friends. I will add you to my prayers list. Hang in there!

Exhausted - beautiful!! wld, pay attention to her!!!<P>WAT

Thank you Exhausted. You make a lot of sense. I think part of what I'm doing in my mind is trying to protect my love for her. I know that seperation of some sort may be required to accomplish that. I'm also trying to protect myself. I've come to understand my responsibility in our failures, but in doing so, I also believe that I'm still a good guy. Which is why I say I don't deserve this. Of course she hasn't deserved my failure for so long either. But right now, I'm not failing. I'm growing, learning and being a better me. Yet she hurts me more deeply that ever, and more than anyone ever has in my life.<P>I feel better. It's been good to vent here. <P>Thanks again.<P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."<p>[This message has been edited by wld (edited January 25, 2001).]

I just talked to her on the phone. I got a fairly clear look at her pain and I think her confusion. I told her it was tough on me right now because I'm in the dark. I don't know what's going on in her head, I can only guess. She asked me what I thought was going on. I told her that my guess was that she's in love with the OM, and is struggling with the pains of 1. breaking apart our family, or 2. loosing him. I asked her if that's the case, if she's in love with him. She said she doesn't know. I believe her. I can't believe I've been so negligent as to have contributed to her (us) being here right now. What a [censored] I've been.<BR> <P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."

Dear Bill,<P>You sound utterly distraught. I can only imagine the pain you are experiencing now.<P>During the past few years, I have tried to hold simulataneously two thoughts about what my wife did to me — first, that she was responsible for her own actions and had deliberately hurt me, and that I had to stand up for myself and not accept being a victim. But second, that she was terribly confused, in enormous pain, was the victim of childhood abuse that had somehow caught up with her, and that she needed space and love as she tried to rebuild her life. Balancing those thoughts was one of the hardest things I have ever done. It still is.<P>I remember almost the exact feelings you describe. When you love someone so deeply, few pains can equal that of having them deliberately cut themselves off from you. Here is a post I wrote ten months ago, when I was experiencing the same thing: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000288.html." TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000288.html</A> <P>This probably isn't much comfort, but I would guess that it is as emotionally hard for your wife to treat you this way, as it is for you to endure it. This stage cannot last. It is like the pressure building up before an earthquake. If you can hang on, preseve your love and compassion for her while also maintaining your self-respect, you will be ready when the moments arise that decide things. Somehow you have to focus on other things, and derive pleasure from them (exercise and my children helped me). If you can, cultivate a detachment from your wife, while remaining an active and loving part of her life. Try imagining that this will last only six months. (It probably will last less).<P>Even so, you might be unable to preserve your family. But you might also bring everything back together. Less than a year after I wrote the post I referenced above, my marriage has become very beautiful. And the turning point occurred only six weeks after I wrote those words. (Actually, that was the first of many turning points; life always brings us new challenges and new rewards).<P>And remember the things that your wrote about your wife to us. She sounds like an amazing woman. What she is doing now is only a small part of her life, and you have seen the whole. My own wife is a brilliant, kind, giving, creative. A wonderful woman who was worth everything I had to give.<P>I wish you peace and courage.<P>StillTrying<p>[This message has been edited by StillTrying (edited January 25, 2001).]

StillTrying,<P>God bless you for your words and perspective. They have helped me to remember just how hard this is for her too. <P>I don't believe my W was physically abused as a child, but she was clearly emotionally abused/hurt. And in reading your other <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000288.html" TARGET=_blank>post</A> (the link above didn't work, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000288.html" TARGET=_blank>this one</A> should) you helped me to see some errors in my perspective. While I do feel isolated from her, she still calls me during the day, and she still helps with a lot of everyday life (parenting, house, planning). Also, I said at the end of my first post in this tread that "I deserve to be treated respectfully and I deserve to know what's going on." I realize now that she can't tell me what's going on if she doesn't know herself. After our conversation last Sunday, she offered me a hug. I know it doesn't mean that she loves me, but it was the best hug I've ever received in my life. And then last night, <I>she</I> offered to spend some time with me to play a game! It was GREAT! I think it's a lot of those things though that confuse me. On one hand, she say's she's got nothing left to give (so it sounds to me like it's all over for us). On the other hand, she says things that seem to be continued planning for the future (together) <I>and</I> she's still here. So I never know what's coming. But the truth is, we <I>never</I> know what's coming. I've been sitting around waiting for something to happen, waiting for a decision. I need to stop waiting and start living again. I like your idea about finding some happiness elsewhere (children, exercise, other activities). It's unfair of me to put the burden of all of my happiness on her shoulders, and, she just can't give me a whole lot of happiness during this tough time. She's got enough to worry about right now.<P>You're right about remembering (re-reading) the things I've posted here about her. The other night, she got on to this forum for the first time and went looking for all of my old posts. I was a little nervous because I couldn't remember everything I'd posted. Later I looked back and found that I'd been posting with a lot of love and respect for her. It felt good to see myself in that mirror, and remember good feelings for her. And you're right, she is an amazing woman...if you only knew. She's a wonderful mother, funny, beautiful, creative, strong. You should see her photography. She's absolutely amazing!!!<P>Thank you for the strength. I really needed it today. But, that's why I come here.<P>And Still, I'm so happy for you and your situation. I'll use you as a model when I need courage. You've been very good to my family and me. Thank you.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."<p>[This message has been edited by wld (edited January 25, 2001).]

An update.<P>She went to counseling last night and didn't want to talk when she got home. Said we'd talk this weekend. Today is better that yesterday, but I'm still hurting. I guess I will be for quite a while. I asked her about the sleeping on the couch thing, and she's unwilling to compromise. She says she's not comfortable in the same bed and that's it. I got angry about that, but handled my anger very well I think. I told her I was angry. I didn't yell, or slam doors. I just said "I'm angry about this, I feel like I'm being treated in a way I don't deserve." But that was it. I've been reading a lot of other posts and have realized that no matter where this goes, we've got a lot of work to do. Although, But reading some of the success stories has given me comfort and insight. It's amazing to hear others describe situations so similar to the one we're in right now, but they describe them as the past, with the present and future full of love and hope.<P>Hugs to you Exhausted. I just got finished reading <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/007339.html" TARGET=_blank>your update</A>. I hope it goes well for you. And I hope we're there someday. You give me courage. Thank you.<P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."