I haven't posted in months or even been on this board for months. I just didn't have any advice to offer and reading posts were just reliving my h affair over and over. It wasn't that I didn't care about the pain everyone here felt but needed to start putting bad memories behind me and reading brought them all to the surface.<P>Anyways, I need help again.<P>I'll give a brief summary.<P>D day was two years ago this month. H had long term affair.(years)<P>Promised it was over but moved in and out of house.<P>About 18 months ago he moved into an apt swearing it had nothing to do with ow but I found out otherwise.<P>Through the last two years he has sworn that ow was out of picture. He spent alot of time at home with us but things just didn't get better or add up.<P>Last week I lost it, called ow for the first time and found out that he has been telling her we are divorcing while promising me he was moving home this month.<P>She was more shocked than I was over all the lies. She believed she had a future with him. After several phone conversations with her, she let me know that she has ended relationship with h as it would be too difficult to have a future with him after all of the lies he told her. He claims he is in control of the situation and hasn't decided if he wants to see her anymore. Whatever.<P>H has been around the last week but very withdrawn and I get the feeling he is angry. Talking about it is out of the question. I get the feeling that he blames me for her finding out the truth and ending their relationship. <P>Any advice or experiences with this would be greatly appreciated as I still want to try and make this marriage work even after all this.

Hoping,<BR>Hi Hon!<P>I read your post and thought "Good for you". I usually don't think contacting the OW is a good idea, but when a situation has gone on as long as yours, you've got little to lose. I don't know if you remember that in my 4th reconciliation I called the OW...she thought we were divorcing as well and wasn't entirely aware he was home--we'd separated, he went out of town and stayed at our house when he got back--something like that, I'm a little fuzzy on the details and I don't go back & read my posts--any forgetfullness is a blessing.<P>But H's OW didn't really believe me that he had never filed for divorce.<P>Your H's OW must have wondered why the divorce is taking so long, and why he's always seeing the kids at your house, and why<BR>she's not meeting them since they were planning a future. I'm glad the conversation went somewhat the way you wanted, it must have been painful.<P>And your H probably is irked to have his house of cards collapse. He's had it longer than most do. But anger towards you is misplaced, he is the one who is in the wrong...and so very wrong for so long.<P>You know, Hoping, I know I've advised Plan B for you for probably a year. I think you should do it. He has lied & cheated on you for years and years...he has no reason to think that you won't continue to hold still and take it. I think you have to say..."H, when you are ready to be a husband and really be in this marriage, that is what I want, but this behavior has cost me faith, hope and love in you and (the rest of the Plan B stuff).<P>You probably see this as since she is finally moving out of the picture that this is your chance, but he's treated you very badly, he needs a reason to stop that behavior. And Tough Love or Plan B is my advice. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

Hi Lor,<P>Yep I'm back.<P>The phone conversation was tough but also felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. All the events that didn't add up now make sense and I know that I am not some lunatic that can never trust again.<P>The ow sure received some eye opening information. She realized that the last years of her life have been lies also. In fact, over the last two years, she's been told more whoppers than me. We had several conversations. We were very civil to each other and honest. I believe she was honest wih me. I know this is crazy after everything that has happened but I feel compassion for how much she is hurting. I believe that she truly loves my h and she is suffering by having to end it. That doesn't make up for all the secrets prior to D day and I made her aware of that. <P>As for my h, I think he just dug himself deeper and deeper and couldn't get out. I think he truly loves the ow and wanted to have a life with her but he also wanted his life with us. In order to maintain both he lied to both of us. I think he lied to me to keep from hurting me and lied to her so she wouldn't end it. <P>You hit it right on the head about meeting the kids. She was pushing to meet them since she thought a divorce was in progress. He was getting it from both sides. He was telling me that he was planning on moving home this month (January)and telling her that she would meet them soon.<P>So here I am. According to her, she has ended the reationship. I believe she has but it has yet to be seen if she will stick with that decision. H won't admit he is angry or hurting, he actually won't say anything. I think in his own way he is blaming me for all the lies coming out but what did he think, they would eventually come out no matter which way the situation turned out. I didn't go behind his back, I told him that if he didn't start giving me some straight forward answers that I would call her. I dont think he believed I would do it.<P>Anyway, I'm having a really tough time handling my own behavior. I think plan A and plan B are both options. Plan A would enforce how pleasnt home could be should he decide to come home. Plan B is tough. I've tried and it doesn't seem to bother him but I probably didn't make it long enough for the reality of it to sink in. I know of one time that he went on a weekend trip with her during plan B. The kids make it tough. He is a hands on dad. He is their hockey coach, plays video games with them, helps with homework etc. I'm right in there as room mother, team mom etc. We are forced to interact because of our lifestyle. <P>I'm torn between deciding which way to go. I'm afraid ow will change her mind. I'm angry at myself for being such a compassionate person and putting up with all this crap. I have an appt with a new counselor next week to find out why I can't just let go. What am I hanging on for?<P>Sorry, kind of rambled there.<BR>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Hoping}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I know how tough this is and both the relief and hurt of knowing the actuality of the affair. You *are* kind & compassionate. I feel a little pity for my H's OW, but mostly consider her despicable.<P>You can't presume that she told you the truth--you and she aren't buddies, you are in love with the same man. She probably wants to break it off...but be prepared that if he continues to contact her, she could very well weaken.<P>I suppose as a Plan B failure myself, I shouldn't be so recommending of it. But you've Plan Aed forever and if he hasn't gotten how wonderful you are by now, another month isn't going to change that. You say he went away with her during your Plan B...but he's been seeing her this whole time, enough that she thought they were building a future--Plan A or B, he was seeing her. <P>What I do feel worked for me was "acting as if" we were divorced. You set boundaries. I think I've outlined this to you before...<P>1. H has regular visitation days & overnights, including some weekends. If he wants to see them at other times he has to call you & make arrangements. If he would like you to come along, he invites you ahead of time. You go or don't go as fits in with *your* plans. <P>2. You aren't his best friend or lover or counselor. You don't make supper for him automatically, you don't caretake him.<P>3. If he wants to be at your house, he doesn't drop in, he calls first. He doesn't enter your house when you or the kids aren't there.<P>I'm glad you are going to a counselor. I think that is an excellent step, I pray s/he is a good one.<P>I care what happens to you, Hoping, keep me posted, do you still have my email? <P>Lor

Hoping<BR>I have no advice just hugs.<BR>{{{{{{{{{{{HOPING}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>Just wanted you to know you are in my prayers. Like Lor said...don't put too much faith into the words of OW.<BR>I am glad you talked to her though. Sometimes that really does turn things around. It certainly seemed to make the bimbo a little nervous when I called her. I wasn't quite as nice as you though.<BR> <BR>

Wasstubborn and Lor,<P>Thanks for the replies. I think about alot of you on this board and wonder how you are doing.<P>You are probably right and plan b really is my only choice. He needs to face the reality of what a divorce really would be like.<P>He's brought up divorce before. I made a list of all our expenses, gave it to him and let him know how much I needed from each of his paychecks to live on. (I provide half our income so it was fair)He was not a happy camper as there was very very little left over for him to live on.<P>The hard part of plan b is my children and lonliness. I hate picturing them sitting in a library doing homework with dad. <P>Any way, I do know that plan b is probably my only choice and I just need to be strong.<P>Thanks for listening

Big hugs to Hoping,<P>I don't know if you feel like this, but sometimes I feel as if all this will never end. I have not seen my H for a month and only in the last few days (since he will be in town this weekend to see the kids) has he tried to call and engage me in conversation. It is the same, tired old pattern and I am just not biting anymore. This weekend I am going to plan b/"act divorced".<P>I know our timelines are similar and once you reach that 2 year mark - well for me anyway - my energy and motivation and even desire to reconcile started to drain more and more quickly. Our hearts and minds and bodies all want to heal, and we need to help ourselves on that path - no one else will do it for us...<P>Hoping, I have great empathy for you, and great hopes. I know you will work through this. Try to think of plan B, not as letting go - but as holding on to yourself. And listen to Lor's advice about boundaries. To me this is the real important part of plan b, and is the most compassionate way to handle it if you have kids. I could never accept the total no contact when kids are involved.<P>Good luck hoping - let us know how you are,<BR>Starpony<p>[This message has been edited by Starpony (edited January 26, 2001).]

Hoping - Wow! I hadn't considered that the OP may be the recipient of just as many lies from the WS as we are - maybe even more! Duh, why not already? I don't think I'm ready to try this, but when I've got nothing to lose, I certainly may.<P>Good luck,<BR>WAT

Starpony,<P>I've been wondering how you were!<P>Our situations were very similar in circumstances and timelines.<P>My h has been around though but apparently livng two lives. Right now I'm pretty much being ignored like all of this mess is my fault!<P>I'm going to draw up the boundaries of our separation "as if divorce" today. We just can't do it his way anymore.<P>You are right about the two year mark. It was two years d day a couple days ago and my emotions are drying up. My tears are less frequent. I just need to let go and move on. <P>If you like, send me your email and we can help each other through another attempt of modified plan b. Maybe venting to each other instead of h will help. How old are your children?<P>cwalker842@aol.com<P>Worth A Try,<P>If you do find yourself wanting to talk to the op, just be prepared for what you are going to hear. I knew I was going to hear things about my h that would hurt and it did but I knew it was bound to happen. Just be prepared.<P>Chris