In her post, Hoping describes the discovery that her H was lying probably just as much to OW as he was to her. I guess I have been naive, but this twist never occured to me. This could explain a bunch of contradictory stories coming out of my wife's "friendship" with OM. This sure conjures up all kinds of fog clearing opportunities and other mischief - not to be entered into lightly.<P>Any thoughts or perspectives?<P>WAT

Dave, I have to admit that I lied to OM - not as often or in the way I did to my H - but I wasn't always truthful with him. Let's face it, these relationships are built on lies.<P>I can tell you that OM was lying like crazy to me and his W. Now that the A is over and I'm out of the fog, I can be more objective about things OM told me - particularly about his marriage. BTW, he was on his FOURTH MARRIAGE . . . think I should have gotten a clue way back when???

Equal Opportunity Liar, here I am.<P>I think the lies I told to my H were - obviously - more blatant. "Going out with some friends, Doing some shopping, Working late, Just taking the day off to clear my head. . ."<P>I don't know that I ever really lied to the OM - but I don't know that I told him the whole truth - i.e., how much I really loved my H. The OM would always tell me how much he didn't think that my H and I were "compatible" and I never really corrected him. I never defended my H - really - I never told the OM why I loved my H. At one point, the OM simply asked me "Why be married?" And that one question, was the thing that got me really thinking - oh, in a good way, finally.<P>I definitely think the OM was hit like a mack truck when I told him that I never wanted to talk to him or see him again. Not that I'm all that with icing on top, but, yes, I will admit that my lies were more of lies of ommission with the OM.<P>It is an interesting dynamic for me, when I think about it, now that I'm in my "right mind." I was always on my best behavior with the OM - so he never really saw the real me - I think if he wouldn have seen how "high maintenance" I really am, he would have thought twice about pursuing me.<P>To me, there's lies of commission and lies f ommission - and they're both equally as bad. I don't like to think of my self as being a compulsive liar - but during the affair - I did nothing but lie/or omit to tell the full story. And, ultimately, I felt miserable doing it, and finally confessed everything to my H.

I don't know about the rest of you, but not only did I lie to W, and the OW but also to other friends, family, Pastor-- just about anybody in order to cover up the relationship. guilty-me. yes

BS here but I know for a facxt that while my H was lying to me he was also telling whopping lies to the OW. Not to mention that he lied to his best friend when confronted about an affair. As far as his family goes he would rather have been poke dwiht sharp sticks in the eyes than admit the affair to them.

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

As a BS I've often had the same question in the back of my head as as worthatry's. Tell us more WSs! <P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."

Liar Liar pants on fire.<P>Yes, I lied to anyone and everyone. Ommission of the story, thats me. I would only tell part of something, not the whole thing. Therefore, it was not a lie. Now, no one believes anything that comes out of my mouth.<P>I told so many lies that one would wonder were the truth began, if there was any truth. My one A was with my best friends husband. When my H found information on my computer, it was her house that I went to for support. Here I was, crying my eyes out to her, she was helping me, and I had the biggest lie of all. Can you say sick?? I am. <P>When all that appeared was a cyber affair, and my H asked me if there was any others did I come forth? NO. When the one PA came out did I tell him about my bf husband? NO. When he asked me if I was drinking or using drugs during the time of the A, did I tell the truth? NO.<P>Hind sight is always twenty twenty, and I sure wish that I would have just spilled my guts right then and there that horrible weekend. But, NO, I had to let the house of cards collapse over several weeks. Liar. <P>I lied to the cyber A, I told him that I wasn't married, but, then I fessed and told him that I was, because then I figured he would not be interested. But, we continued anyway, I guess he is a scum liar just like me. I lied to OM all the time. Never telling them how I felt. How wrong it was, how I wanted to end it but couldn't. They didn't know me. They only knew what I wanted them to. Or, I would just be evasive, like I said, leaving out bits and pieces. I wonder how I kept everything straight.<P>Heck, I even lied to the OM I worked with when I took up with bf husband. He never knew, still doesn't. BF husband even had several A's that I never knew about! Can you say Sick????????????? It is all so crazy, that I can't beleive myself. <P>I wish that I would have had the courage, I wish that I would have had the strength, but I didn't. What was so freakin important about not coming clean? The drug usage was a reservation on my part. Hey, if I tell about my drugs, then he will know, and once the heat is off, I can go back to the doctor and get more. Finally, I realized that I had to stay clean, and staying clean was more important than lying.<P>After all, I started using pills and several months later, I was starting the A with the [censored] at work. Oh, I should also say that I was in a 12 step recovery program, and I of course lied and told them I wasn't using anymore, I even celebrated several aniversaries, all the time I was using pills. Liar.<P>PJ<P>[This message has been edited by PlainJane (edited January 26, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by PlainJane (edited January 26, 2001).]

Dave,<P>I know of some lies my wife has told OM. I used to think that she probably told him most of the truth, mixed with some little lies, like the ones I discovered. But lately, I've realized that what she portrays to him has got to be full of lies.<P>I'm sure he thinks we are legally separated, and that we were in separate beds till she moved out, and that I'm in full agreement with our separation. In other words, who knows what kind of picture she has painted for him.<P>Had no internet connectivity at work today. No hotmail and no MB....out of touch with the world! Got your email tonight.

I just had to pipe in here and say, that although I am not the WS, my husband lied to me tons. He however never lied to the OW. I know some of you may not believe that, but he didn't. He is basically a very honest man.<P>I also believe OW accepted all that he had to give, even if it actually was very little and she didn't demand any more. Very close to discovery she started to express some very subtle demands, but not strongly.<P>He never lied to her, because he didn't have to. She played her cards very well. She almost won too. <P>Maybe most betraying spouses lie to their affair partner, but I firly believe and feel my husband did not lie to her. <P>Just thought that'd I give another perspective on this. Not all betraying spouses lie to their affair partners, even though apparently it is more the norm. <P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited January 26, 2001).]

My husband told OW and all his friends that he was separated from me. Huh? Funny thing that I didn't know that.

OK, now that we've established it as the norm, how can we exploit it? Or does tampering run too much of a risk for LBing?<P>Seems like if lying to OPs in persistent affairs can be revealed, there's a chance for a stiff breeze to blow out that fog. <P>Or am I grabbing at straws?<P>WAT

Maybe if we get real fed up and bored, we'll schedule a weekend retreat for all us BSs. We'll buy some Samual Adams and other spirits, and start making phone calls to the list of OPs. We'll see how many hornets nests we can stir up.<P>We'll send them anonymous emails the day before, telling them to stay by the phone to claim their "prizes". Oh, we'll need a speaker phone to increase the level of excitement in the room. We'll need to make sure the WSs are with the OPs, just for the full effect.<P>Should I find something more constructive to do today?

Now, I've been on both sides, as a WS and a BS, and I've told some whoppers in my time.<P>I don't think that telling the OP about the lies would make any difference. Did it make any difference when you were courting your mate if you caught them in a little lie? And since these people know at some level that the whole relationship is based on lies, do they really expect anything different?

OMG! He lied to everyone - my H ended up telling more lies to her than he did me.<P>Initially we separated and he choose to be with her, but he kept coming around me - he was telling her that he was visiting his son but he would sit at the kitchen table and "talk" to me the whole time he was here. He never told her that.<P>While he was seeing her - he eluded to the fact that we were not having sex anymore - but we were in fact having sex at least once a week by that time. In fact, we had sex one morning before he went to work and they had sex that afternoon before he came home - I doubt he said to her "second time today".<P>He told her constantly that he and I were through yet talked to me constantly about how fixable it was.<P>He never lied to me again after he got caught, he was too honest after that. Told me everything about their relationship - what she was doing - how it was effecting him at work etc. He never told her any of that - just said he visited the kids.<P>They both lied to everyone at work after they got caught by her h - telling everyone their affair was over but it continued for three more months. <P>But mostly he lied to himself - telling himself he wasn't doing anything wrong - that he wasn't hurting anyone - and that he had the right to do this to us - believed he was finally doing something for himself.<P>The whole thing is a lie. She did her share of lying too.<BR> <BR>The OW was married too and told my H she was sleeping on the couch - I talked to her H when it all blew up and he said she never slept on the couch once!<P>The OW told my H that her Husand beat her - in a big confrontation with everyone that was a lie too.<P>She told my H she was 39 - she was 45!<BR>She told my H she had never had an affair before her husband told me that they moved to Alberta for a fresh start as she cheated in Ontario with a coworker there.<P>She told my H that her parents both died and gave her the car they had sex in, her H told me her parents were alive and they bought the car together. <P>She told my H that I called her and told her she was an awful mother for leaving her children behind when she left her husband - I never phoned the woman once.<P>She told my Husband that she was kicked out of her marital home and she lost everything for my Husband - Her husband told me he begged her to stay and work on their marriage.<P>Liar Liar pants on fire.<BR>I can't figure out who the biggest liar in this sceanario is - soemtime I think they truley deserved each other.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by mrsaxxeman (edited January 27, 2001).]