My H and OW ended their affair 3 months ago, due to the OW's H finding out. They work together and are adament they can continue a working relationship. They have very little contact at work - deliberately. They walk down different halls, work in different locations most of the time, and try to avoid one another. My H tells me of any contact they do have (I have to trust he is telling all). Yet he also admits he is struggling with remaining feelings and it is hard to sit through meetings with OW in the room. His actions, and his own acknowledgement, show that he is definitly in the withdrawal stage. He is trying to get his feelings 'back home', and thanks me daily for my strength to help him. Can he come out of the withdrawal stage when she is still physically around?

I'm a little bit in the same boat. Wife offered to quit her job etc..but. The poor dears are either going to make it or not. We can't tie them up or lock them in a closet. It's against the law, I checked. So, after months of commitment way beyond any commitment ever to their spouses, all this wild stuff dried up in a flash and they're just fine working together. Be watchful and always suspicious. This will double the recovery time at least, but it is their choice.

Won't necessarily double the recovery time....<P>Quite honestly, for us, I think it speeded it up - true recovery that is.<P>Robert didn't have to sever contact with PT ('cause they worked together) while in the throes of a fantasy. He continued to see her and lo and behold, recognized her more for what she really WAS than what he thought she was when they were in love. I started looking REAL good a lot faster!<P>Eventually, she got on his nerves so much, he had her transferred!<P>Not a problem, Sweetie. Don't worry about it. She's not your problem anyway.<P>Lori

This describes my situation a year ago...<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>They have very little contact at work - deliberately. They walk down different halls, work in different locations most of the time, and try to avoid one another. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In our case I think it did make it harder for a while. Ultimately, she ended up leaving, but by then things were already improved a lot, and I think we'd have been OK even if she'd stayed. But, really Lori is right...she is not your problem. Just focus on your marriage, your relationship with your H. That's the important part.

I lived through this too for several months. My H and OW swore that they would never leave their jobs because it would not make any difference as to how they felt about each other. So I did all I could do - leave it alone. H knew that I was unhappy with the situation, I told him ONCE. Then one day lo and behold he sort of casually told me that his supervisor had approved his move to a different office three counties away from where he was at. Then he took his intern up and cleaned out the office one day and upset OW so much that she said some very mean things to him - aha her true personality coming to light. So while it may not look like an end is in sight, you work on what YOU can do to make your marriage better and the rest will fall into place along the way.

My H has some contact with his *former* OW through work. He says he keeps away from where she is, and she doesn't seek him out. She's still ensconced in the romance with H's former housemate who also is in the working environment. As far as I know there isn't any non-work contact for about the last year.<P>Continuing to work together isn't optimal, and I sure didn't enjoy the Xmas parties I went to with her also in attendance, but she acted stupidly/brazenly at the second one, a couple people who know congratulated me on my handling of the situation "Like a lady"...and a little pity grows in my heart for her. It can't be all roses to have people know you screwed a married man with a family...when the whole family is right in front of you...and there never were any divorce proceedings...<P>I'm working on forgiveness, rather than wanting to firebomb her and/or her possessions.

TrustingGod,<P>Do check out the following thread...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/007270.html" TARGET=_blank>A testimonial about "no contact"</A>.<P> <P>Jim

It's apparent that some can and some can't. And for some, the jury is still out.<P>My H never went thru the withdrawal, TrustingGod, but if he had, I think I would have plan B'd really fast just to save my own love units for him. I'm not as strong as Victoria and lostva in the Plan A, no LB'ing department with H's stuck in their fog. <P>So this really swings back in your court--what are you strong enough to handle, TG?<P>And NSR's thread suggests that ex-OP's aggressiveness tactics towards the WS multiply after they've come out of yet another failed relationship. <P>Something to think about. <P>Based on my experience, altho we are going strong, OW quitting would be a major milestone in our recovery. We do not need a constant reminder of something so negative when you're in a positive new marriage? In that sense, I would have to agree that this kind of continued co-working situation does (at least) double the recovery time. <P>Sorry to disagree with you, lostva, but not every OP is an obnoxious and skanky PT!!<BR>

I have a LONG post with our story, but it may clue you in to why I say<P>NO, NO, Never. If the attraction is there, CHANGE jobs. There are other places to work, in fact, there are other STATES to live in. You also need weekly counseling for several sessions, then maybe once a month. We went for a year. <P>Here is our story:<P>Before anyone blasts me with why I am wrong and how this isn't true in your case...I KNOW that not all affairs are about unmet sexual needs...but MY husbands was, almost completely. <BR>I wanted to reflect on it and share some of the ways we have been working towards a healthy marriage. I get kinda frank, so skip this if sex is a taboo topic for you.<P>When we married, I was a 25 year old virgin, by choice. I had dated about 35-40 guys, a couple for several months, most of them just once or twice because they didn't interest me. <P>When I met my husband, he was 19 and I was 23. He had only had two girlfriends before, one very young (14) and the other 20 and very sexually active. She was his first sexual partner. He broke up with her after consulting his pastor about his activities with the girl.<P>We met at church and dated for a year. We kept our physical relationship quite controlled, petting with clothing on only. <BR>The second year he proposed and we were engaged throughout his last year of college. We still did not engage in intercourse. We married after he graduated. <P>On our honeymoon, things were far from 'movie perfect' and he did not feel the passion he had felt with the other girlfriend. <P>In his frustration, he informed me "look, you are NOT the great love of my life, XXX was, so get over it! I do not feel passionate toward you. You are my best friend. You DO NOT turn me on. I married you because we get along well. Deal with it." <P>His own disappointment came out in anger. Since neither of us knew how to heal this rift, we just glossed over the problem. Sex became a means to release of tension, initiated when one of us felt the need and convinced the other to participate. <P>The times when we were trying to get pregnant were a bit more relaxed and fun. The hurt I had felt at his stinging words on our honeymoon stayed with me for all the years until his affair and our counseling sessions began. I was able to tell him word for word what he had said then. <P>He had difficulty believing that he had been that blunt and cruel, but he admitted that he was full of rage when he realized that he didn't have the feelings towards his wife that he hoped would materialize after the wedding.<P>Much of the attraction problem stems from our respective sizes. He is 5'10" and average build. I am 6' and slim to medium build. When we were dating, he never noticed this. In fact, he claims to have realized that I was taller the day we married, when his brother pointed it out as a terrible problem, a failing of mine. (She's too TALL! How could you do it?) <P>His other brothers concurred at our wedding that he had made a big mistake, because he would always "look like a loser" if his wife was taller than he. I am NOT making this up.<P>He had all this on his mind as we headed off for our honeymoon, in addition to typical jitters. For literally 14 years, we never discussed this. I was always confused at the sudden swing in his attitude toward me, as he had been an adoring fiance and our physical relationship had been good as we looked forward to marriage.<P>When the honesty began and our sex life was put 'on the table' in our sessions, we were able to share how we had hurt each other repeatedly for 14 years. Because of his affair, I was jolted into realizing that he was NOT the only one to have broken our vows. <P>I had refused him sex over and over for weeks at a time, because I felt so rejected and unattractive. This, in turn, made him feel even less manly and desirable. When the OW, his coworker for several years, came on to him (hand on his crotch) and suggested an affair because "I have never been SOOOO sexually attracted to any man" (giggle here, because she is a serial adulteress), he was in her car for a BJ in a day, and at a hotel room in three days. Absolutely RIPE for an affair.<P>The affair was romantic, hot and heavy for 3 months, then another 12 months of once a month "If she was horny" nooners. She broke his heart when he discovered she was also sleeping with the boss.<P>Now, almost three years since it started, my h. is physically ill at the thought of her. He admits that he always knew she "was NOT a good person, actually she is a #itch", but that the relationship was 'hot' and made him feel young and alive again.<P>Do I accept blame for his affair? <P>OF COURSE NOT! He could have told me he was miserable, he SHOULD have told me before he put my health at risk...<P>BUT<BR>I did not seek help for our sexual problems, I refused him much more than I consented, and I DID contribute to the sexual void in our relationship. I felt quite justified in doing so, because of his put downs. However, I just added gas to a smoldering ember.<P>We have made great strides in our physical relationship, mainly because we discussed and agreed to meet each others needs. <P>Sometimes I am not interested in being sexual. I can still give him pleasure. Even during my period, a wonderful product call 'Instead' which is like a disposable diaphram, can prevent the mess. <P>It took many months of non-sexual massage, neck rubs, pats on the bottom and nightly snuggling to heal all the pain of his betrayal. <P>But one night, I said timidly, "I just wish our relationship could surpass what you felt with her." His reply, "Don't you know? That pales in comparison to what we have now".<P>What we learned from this?<P>I learned I was WRONG to tell him that his need for sex is unreasonable. I was WRONG to think of him as an animal or less evolved than I am because of how God made him.<P>He was WRONG to think that my need for cuddling and kindness and help around the house is silly. He was WRONG to think that I am immature if I need to be sweet talked and coddled.<P>An article we read said something like, <P>If your young child is thirsty in the night, you don't explain to them that they don't need a drink because YOU aren't thirsty. <P>You meet their need because only you can and because you SHOULD. <P>Your marriage is like that. You are the one God put in your spouses life to meet their needs. They are in your life to meet your needs. If you don't do it, don't be surprised when the need overwhelms their desire to be a good and righteous person.<P>my 5 dollars worth,<BR>lizzie<P>

In my experience the answer is no. After learning of my husbands affair with a co-worker I demanded that any and all contact stop immediatly as a condition to even begin working on forgiveness. This meant he had to change offices and even profession for a while. But I had to know if it was something he was willing to suffer through before I could go through the process. And I knew I couldnt get through a day knowing he was in her company. In hindsight, as inconvenient as it was, finding new work was probably the easy part for him. It was a concrete action that he understood. It was the rest that was hard...

wow alias....wow.<P>nice job...this should be in the most memorable....<P>NSR?<P>allison

Hey, Leilana, how're you doing?????<P>No need to be sorry! I'm not the type to deal with Robert giving up PT b/c he HAD to. I never made it a condition of our reconciliation. Never even asked for it. Somehow I knew, for me, he had to choose it on his own. It worked much better for me/us for it to happen the way it did. Not suggesting it for everyone...I do believe in what the Harley's say....no contact makes withdrawal easier and the whole mess a little less painful for us.<P>I've seen a few BS's over the last few months seemingly giving up on their marriages b/c of contact. I think some of those had serious potential for the future and I was sorry to see it. I just wanted TrustingGod to know that it can (and has - and not just with me) worked nicely when that wasn't a condition in the beginning. I still believe we all have to do what's best for us.<P>Hang in there, everybody! <P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori

Ooh, lostva! Good one!<P>I consider you the "Recovery Diva"!<P>Doing great, thanx for asking. How about you, Hon?<P>Let me follow up your great post which I totally agree-- with a little clarification on mine. I know YOU know this like the back of your hand. <P>My understanding of Plan B is not a "giving up" but a purposeful holding on of your love for your spouse. (After you've plan A'd to your max, of course!) <P>I've been frustrated with the BS' giving up as well. Because I felt they Plan A'ed, wavered in continued contact, then imperfectly plan A'd--then LB'd themselves right out of their marriage's potential and immediately started looking for divorce lawyers! No plan B! I hate that! <P>Granted, it's hell, but if you're going to go thru the trouble of Plan A'ing, you should plan in advance where you are going and what your alternative plan will be if and when your love bank begins to falter. They don't call the <B>next alternative plan</B> "Plan B" for nothing!<P> <P>But not everyone has the "strength of a lostva" to stay in plan A with no positive results being seen for a prolonged period of time. And not everyone is happy with baby steps of improvement. They have an all or nothing attitude. My personality leans that way to a certain extent. <P> Some people cannot help but show their WS how much the continued contact hurts and terrifies them. And thus the damaging LB's which results in plummetting love unit bank balances--for both spouses. This can happen with lightening speed if that WS is still "foggy". <P> But obviously some people here did it. How is really a mystery to me. I'm strong but I'm humbled by that kind of inner power.<BR>How did you keep your love units up for so darn long without your Taker taking over? It defies reason. I never understood it but would love to.<P> But lucky for me and my limited abilities my H was not in a fog.<P>Still coworking but in "no-contact" mode. I am no longer terrified or hurt. Just annoyed at the negative reminders once in a while. <P>But life is so good!<P>BTW, someone posted asking for you by name on the "in Recovery" forum. Didn't look inside so don't know what it's about. I think you'll be needing an secretary or assistant pretty soon!<P>Aloha,<P>L <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited January 30, 2001).]

Sorry to be using your thread, Trusting God.<P>I agree with you, Leilana! And I'm so glad you guys are steadily improving. The little reminders can be a bear, but, thankfully, they take their place with the rest of the garbage!<P>Keep up the good work!<P>Love,<P>Lori

TG,<BR>I don't have time for a long reply, so I'll keep it short.<P>First of all, "no contact" is the very <B>best</B> way to go, <I>if you can get it.</I> Anyone who tells you it's the <B>only</B> way is dead wrong. Whether or not you make it a "deal-breaker" depends on how well you know your H. Some spouses have responded to "demands" to others it has driven them away forever. There is no hard and fast rule on this, regardless of how some people feel.<P>As a BS, "no contact" is definitely number one on the wishlist. However there are times when it just won't work.<P>During the week after d-day(4/99), W told me that OM was like a "soulmate" and she would never give up the friendship. I knew W well enough that, given how she talked about him, a demand of "no contact" would have resulted in her leaving for good as she would have seen it as a "control issue".<P>What made things worse was that they were co-workers. Eventually, it seemed as if the bottom fell out of my world. The week(12/99) after her counselor told her that she couldn't even begin to realistically work on our marriage as long as OM was in the picture, her boss put him on the same team as her(the team, W, OM and boss).<P>Anyway, to make a long story short, by spring 2000, W started making noises about a serious attempt at reconciliation. By summer, it was a commitment. This happened even though their time together at the office increased ten-fold by working closely all day.<P>Today, we are both happier together than we have been in years. I didn't give her a "no contact" ultimatum, and this let her figure things out on her own schedule(which is the best way). She still works with and talks to OM, but it is only a tense friendship now. Tense, because he is suffering massive withdrawal(for months now) and occasionally gets angry with her at work for no good reason.<P>The bottom line here is that requesting "no contact" is definitely a good idea. If you make it a demand, then you will have to live with the consequences. Had I made such a demand, I would be divorced now. But, don't think the continued and later, increased contact didn't drive me crazy, it did. I had to find ways within myself to keep it from becoming a "deal-breaker".<P>Do you know your H well enough to predict what his reaction to a demand of "no contact" would be? If not, tread lightly...<P>My 2 cents....