I had pretty much thought I could finally leave this place in my past. My W and I are approaching three years since our problems began. I was only checking in about once a month or so, and really haven't had much of anything to say to anyone.<P>. . . until Friday that is.<P>For the benefit of those who don't know or remember my story . . . 3 years ago this month, my W walked on me taking our D who was at that time 4 years old. Turns out that we were in very drastic financial straights. My W took care of the bills, and apparently hadn't been handling the finances well at all. I found out when I was served with an eviction notice. I got mad and started yelling.<P>Well, rather than talk with me and try to work things out, my W chose to call her mother, who hates me by the way. Her mother decided rather than try to help us financially, she would use this as a way to get my W to leave me.<P>A restraining order against me, divorce paperwork being filled out, an affair and a lot of hard feeligns are what ensued over the next several months.<P>We ended up back together, though I'm not really sure how. next my W began MANY internet affairs, including phone calls to our house and very explicit Emails from some of her OP's.<P>That is what finally led me to this forum. <P>We went through a great deal of conversation, tears and heartache and I thought we were beginning to make some pretty good progress.<P>We have still had financial problems, but had most things under control and are planning on filing bankruptcy once our taxes come back.<P>Until this past Friday. . .<P>I was unable to log onto the internet. Something was goin on with my ISP. I tried calling the ISP's number from the phone book without success, so I went into our bedroom to look for support numbers which I had printed out some time before. What I found has brought me back in time to three years ago.<P>The first thing I found was a printed Email from a friend in California. He said that he was being contacted by a creditor and wanted me to call him. I came out and check the computer, but discovered that this Email was nowhere to be found. My W had deleted it completely from the computer.<P>I went back into our room and continued looking. . . what I found reminded me so much of the things I found after my W left me 3 years ago, that I litterally sat on the bedroom floor crying.<P>Months and months worth of bills that had not even been opened. magazines which were similar to ones she had back then which were a means for her to fantasize about a better life with some type of "star." Teen rock stars were the culprits this time. last time it was sports stars. I came back out and did some more checking on the computer and found that the sports stars are still an issue as well. . .she is receiving bio information on sports stars through an Email account which I haven't checked in several months. I also found bank statements which showed that several checks had been bounced in the past few months as well.<P>Every feeling and emotion from that time 3 years ago came flooding back.<P>When my W got home from work that night, she went into the bedroom for a minute, obviously realized what I had found, and immediately went on a "cleaning" spree. This is something which she never does, unless I start cleaning something up.<P>History is repeating itself here, and I don't know what to do about it.<P>When my W finally stopped taking bags of who knows what out to the trash, I asked her if she was going to talk to me. (and no this time I did not yell.) She pretty much refused. When I asked her about the individual things I had found, her only response was "I don't know." When I asked why she had deleted the Email from my friend in California, she said because she had planned on "taking care of it herself."<P>Now, to add insult to injury in all this, I found out about two weeks ago that my grandmother had been killed in a car accident. My sisters and I had not been told about it until one of my sister called to wish our grandmother a happy birthday. She was told then, that our grandmother had been killed 3 weeks before, and that our step grandfather did not know how to get a hold of any of us. . . well they were out here last summer, and we all seem to get birthday cards just fine. . .<P>And just a few days before, I found out that I did not receive a promotion at work which I should have gotten. Someone who was not as qualified as I was received the promotion instead.<P>It is now Sunday, and my W still has not been willing to talk about what I found Friday. I feel like I am being ripped apart all over again, and I don't know what to do. I can't survive this all over again. I just can't.

ES, I don't have anything to offer about your situation, and I'm so sorry... but I want you to know that we are all still here for you.<P>The only thing I can even think of to suggest is that maybe it is time to seriously consider a drastic change in your life - move to another state - something to change the picture so much that it might shake her up. Remember that the most important thing is that your daughter have a happy home - not a rich home, not an exciting home, but a happy and stable one.<P>And, I do have one other suggestion: talk to a doctor about anti-depressants. I know that a lot of people don't like the idea of taking a drug to feel better, but I know that I was in a place where my world was getting smaller and smaller, and where there was no hope at all - and the anti-depressants made a tremendous difference in how I saw the world around me. All was dark, and huddling in my tiny corner of it was all that I could do - with the anti-depressants, I've been able to improve myself far beyond anything I imagined I could have done before them.<P>If you are already on them, maybe a change is in order. That hopeless feeling can get better, and solutions that were unacceptable before make more sense.<P>I hope that some of this helps...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

I have to agree with Terri...<BR>...it's a major shake-up time...<P>Take complete control of finances...<BR>...put monitoring software on the PC...<BR>...get into counseling (maybe MB-style every other week if $200/mo is available)...<P>You'll have to go into love bank-preservation mode real soon...<P>Accountability of time/money is needed...<P>This will the hardest time you've had to deal with yet...<P>...make sure you get help from the good folks on the forum(s)...<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

Okay I figured I'd better jump in here and reply. I have been doing a lot of thinking since Friday night. I have come to the realization that all the financial problems are my fault. My husband makes pretty good money. I just have this feeling that if we don't have enough money in our account to buy food we are in trouble. One of those that if I decide that I want something and we don't have all the items at home that I have to go to the store and get those items. Instead of just dealing with what we do have. <P>As far as the checks that were bounced, I thought we did have the money in the account and we didn't. All that is my fault. I may need to find out if there is a way to take a money management class somewhere.<P>I guess I'm just scared. Scared that if I tell my husband that I'm having trouble that he will not want me. That I will lose my husband forever because of what happened 3 years ago. I thought that he wouldn't want me anymore that while I was doing laundry late Friday night I thought I would just end every thing. I would take my life so that my husband wouldn't have to worry about me hurting me anymore.<P>I also got to thinking that if my husband wouldn't mind, I would try to go back to college and try to get another degree. I would try to get financial aid and if I could, maybe use my financial aid to pay back his. I would love to go back to school for psychology. (imagine that. Can't fix my on problems in myself but would like to help others) I haven't brought this up with H though. Not sure if he would go for it.<P>I got really sick on Saturday. I went to bed at 5:30 am on Saturday after getting up at 7 Friday morning. I had thrown up about three times before I went to bed and threw up breakfast after making it. My H told my dad and step mom when they came up that the only time I had ever done that was when I was pregnant with our D. He thought it was because I might be pregnant but it isn't I know that. I was honestly going to end my life so that my H could find someone better than me. Someone who made more money, didn't have fantasies about other men, was more open with him. I had taken pills after I got home from doing laundry and after I did wished I hadn't. I thought after I did that it would kill my H and my D. I thought 'how could I do that to them' I was puking up pills most of the days.<P>I need help and I'm not sure how to get it. Don't have the money to really see a counselor. Help. This has nothing to do with my H and I won't leave him like I did 3 years ago.

hopeful1771...<P>I don't want to knock you...<BR>...but you know what you were doing was wrong...<P>You knew it back in September last year <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/005462.html" TARGET=_blank>My last post.....</A><BR>That <B>doesn't mean DON't POST</B>!<P>But open the internet accesses you make to ES! What a loving gift that would be.<P>And either let him take over the finances...<BR>...or agree on doing it jointly...<BR>...account to each other where every $ goes...<BR>...start a budget...<BR>...you can get help (search the Internet on this)!!!<P>You know... you are depressed too!<BR>Go to your doctor (with ES holding your hand)...<BR>...and get some medication!<P>Hey...<BR>...you probably haven't heard it in a while (except from ES)... but...<BR><B>You are loved</B>...<P>...and yes... it will be a tough love...<BR>...sometimes it's the best we can!<P>...and yes... I love you too...<BR>...otherwise I wouldn't make the recommendations I made! <P> <P>Jim

hopeful1771,<BR>Like Jim, I am not trying to berate you. You are loved very much here. I understand what you are going through because I figured out why some people can't help but to spend money without doing the dirty work of sticking to the budget. That reason is that when we buy something our bodies release endorphines which give us this euphoric feeling. When we realize that what we have done was a bad thing then we try to hide it and ignore it which only leads to worse feelings.<P>I figured this out when I was about 23. I am glad I figured it out then because it kept me from doing what my W continues to do. I know it is harder for women not to do it because you all feel more deeply than most men because God wired you all that way.<P>In order to make it better between you and ES, you must work out a plan that will work for you guys. The plan that I worked out for my W and me resulted in separate accounts and the bills split according to percentage of income being brought into the house. I say I worked it out because I had to try a lot of different plans until I found one that worked because my W was not willing to sit down and work it out with me.<P>We are getting back on track. We were able to go to her family's reunion after four years because of our new plan and my working multiple jobs until this past Dec. We are still not where we would have been financially if we had agreed on how to spend OUR money. I am fortunate enough to had to endure this trauma but am willing to share with others to help ease the pain.<P>ES,<BR>Hang in their. I am still not totally out of the woods because today I was put down because our house needs painting badly. I told her that our cash flow is still not there to paint the house. This is due primarily because I am still periodically helping keep her afloat. In the past 4 months, my estimate of bounced check fees is about $500 which could have been spent on the things she wants to make her feel better.<P>I am still praying for you guys. Stop relying on yourself and rely on God to show you what you need to do. Pray with her and talk about where you guys want to be. Plan for those things. Stick to those plans unless you have another discussion to change the plans. Keep track of those plans so that you both keep on track. Study her like she is the most important thing in your life besides God.<BR>

hopeful, you are right - you do need help. And it isn't a bad thing either to admit that or to ask for it. Your husband loves you and wants you to ask him for help if you need it. You need to trust him enough to tell him what is happening and what you are feeling. The money you make is not going to make him hate you or love you... and the mistakes you make are much better admitted than hidden.<P>We all make mistakes - heck, I've made so many of them it's a wonder I have anything! It is what we do with and about those mistakes that determines how our lives progress. You need to decide that you want your life to progress, instead of standing still or regressing... Only you have the power to make that decision.<P>Are you on anti-depressants? There is nothing wrong with medication. I have been very surprised to learn of many of my co-workers and acquaintances who are taking them - life is not easy these days, and our lifestyles are not necessarily helpful when struggling with stresses and depression. Fear is a big symptom of depression ... and it can be helped by medication.<P>Take a baby step in the right direction. Make a single decision, a single plan. Act on it. Be proud of the smallest progress. And you will find it gets easier and easier... especially for you with a husband and daughter who love you!<P>We are here for both of you - we care and we want to help. Please talk to us. Talk honestly to us so we can help in whatever ways we can.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

I don't know if this is going to matter much or not but thought I'd put it here anyway. I am seeing a counselor tomorrow at 10 am mountain time to work out all MY problems. My H got the information for me from work and figured I'd use it to help myself and make my H proud of me. I figured it would be the best way to make my marriage work, I just hope my H will still want me once I'm better and have gone through the counseling<BR>

Let's start here and now with some things that you can do. Speak well of yourself! You are a good person who has made some bad choices and mistakes... ES wouldn't have gotten you the information if he didn't want you ... if he didn't want to help you.<P>I know how hard it is to climb out of a hole once you've dug yourself down so deep ... but you can do it!<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

I really don't know what to say. This whole situation has me so mixed up inside, that I don't know if I am coming or going.<P>I have so many things that I want to say to my W. . .So many questions that I want to ask . . .<P>I would like to thank everyone who has replied to this thread, and to everyone who has read this thread and offered their silent prayers. I would especially like to thank Terri for taking the time to offer support to my W.<P>I am sure that this is not going to be an easy process. I have no doubts that both my W and I will be confronting and dealing with things we never though we would encounter. I had thought we had already been through everything . . .<P>I guess that we are once again back into the front seat of this damn rollercoaster. . .If there is any out there who question this, then this is as much for you as it is for my W . . .I plan on doing everything in my power to to help us get past this. . . To get back on the track we embarked on the day we took our vows. . .<P>Thank You all.<P>God Bless

ES, I am glad to help any way I can. Somehow, if I can help someone else, then my own situation has been worth something.<P>I am struck by your single final statement, and hope that all who read it realize that marriage IS an important, lifelong commitment as you do: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I plan on doing everything in my power to to help us get past this. . . To get back on the track we embarked on the day we took our vows. . .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hopeful - you've been given a wonderful gift - your husband. I know that with both of you working toward the same goal that you will reach it!<P>My best to both of you.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

ES:<P>This thread intrigued me because your wife sounds like my husband used to be.<P>I don't mean to crash your thread, but my husband's behavior is due to Bipolar disease. It's a chemical imbalance in his brain that causes reckless behavior. His behavior was comprised of grandiosity, spending inordinant amounts of money, ignoring bills, immediate gratification, inappropriate sexual behavior, delusions, secretiveness, lying, exaggerations, poor judgment and business decisions and hyper-rapid thoughts-bouncing from one subject to the next, one idea to another quickly...moments of euphoria, grand gestures, then suddenly deeply depressed, suicidal thoughts, angry, name calling, even road rage. if any of these symptoms are prevalent in your iwfe, perhaps she suffers from a bipolar disorder.<P>I always knew there was something pretty wrong with my husband. It wasn't until he began drinking again after 18 years of sobriety that his disorder was exacerbated into a full tilt, blatant explosion of compulsive and reckless behavior.<P>He engaged in an affair for the first time in our twenty year marriage that produced a child after three weekends that impacted our lives forever, we have filed bankruptcy in an attempt to repair some of the damage from his illness, he has gone through tests and been diagnosed-finally-and medication has been prescribed. He takes Neurontin to adjust the brain chemistry with great success. He is happier now than I have ever seen him, even with the terrible fallout we are dealing with. His remorse and regret is profound and he works diligently to repair the damage he has created. He has turned over ever facet of our finances to me and we are going to survive.<P>Just knowing he had little control over his behavior, that there was a reason for his bizarre behavior and that there are solutions, that these things probably would never have happened had he not had this disorder and began drinking again, have made all the difference in the world for us both. He is able to forgive and undestand himself and accept that he will always have to use this medication; and it has allowed me to forgive him, have compassion for him and allowed us to move forward.<P>The price we have both paid is devastating and the damage indescribable, however, we were lucky to have found good psychiatrists who were competent and alert to his disorder and prescribe medication and solutions that have made us both profoundly grateful for this second chance. In a strange way, I have been able to heal relatively well because I don't have to take his betrayal personally...I get to blame the disease. It allows me to love him and understand him and forgive him.<P>Your wife's behavior suggests that Bipolar disorder could be her nightmare as she is displaying many of the same symptoms my husband did from what you have written. Seeing a psychiatrist about this possibility may open the door to a new beginning for you both. I know you said you cannot afford the help, but may I suggest that you cannot afford NOT to?<P>Just a thought.<P>Catnip =^^= <p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited February 09, 2001).]