I haven't posted in a long time. Nothing really new going on. But, I have been lurking.<P>H and I have been separated for about 5 months now. I've been doing a Plan A and doing a pretty good job. H is involved in an A, though it was a secret because OW was still living with her H. I had pretty much convinced myself that she would never leave him, so I was just waiting for him to get tired of waiting for her.<P>Well, now her H has moved out. He is telling everyone that she is having an A, but not telling anything specific, so I'm not sure that he actually knows. He has decided he wants a divorce, but theirs will be long and messy. For now, she does not want anyone to know about the A, so it's still a secret- but I'm sure that won't last long. Because of all the secrecy, their contact has been mostly by phone, which has made my Plan A much easier to carry out.<P>But now I'm scared. If the OW is getting a D, I'm afraid that my H will start with that again too. He has not mentioned it for a long time. I have made a lot of changes and he has noticed and commented, but just doesn't have the feelings needed for us to get back together. We have had almost daily contact since he moved out and are getting along very well.<P>Need encouragement, advice. How do you avoid talking about D without it being a LB? The last time we talked about it (several months ago), I told him that that's not what I want- wouldn't fight him on it but wouldn't help either. He won't let me get away with this forever.

Cloudy,<P>I wondered where you had gone, so welcome back, and of course, sorry that it has to be under more stressful circumstances. If your Plan A has been good, and he has noticed, then hopefully he won't initiate it yet. Perhaps you've made him think. And on the bright side, now that the A is possibly more out in the open, reality time is approaching for the OW. Lets hope that throws a wrench into fantasyland.<P>Also, if they are both free to be together, that could speed up the destruction of the relationship. No guarantee, but the odds are in favor of that. So in a nutshell, all is not lost, and hopefully this is the start of reality.<P>As for talking about D, I don't think you can avoid it, but you can say that you don't want it, and let him do what he wants. It isn't overnight, so you've still got lots of Plan A time left, and if he noticed things, and commented, then that is a good sign. Let more time help take care of things.<P>How are you doing with it all? Do you do anything together? And how is the daily interaction...are you getting alone fine?

Keep doing plan A! Many many many times the woman in an affair gets a divorce and the man continues to make no moves toward one.<P>Its a great oppurtunity for her to start pressuring him to get one and winning about how difficult things are for her and LB to the max. <P>Now is your time to shine as the non pressuring plan A queen. Take full atvantage, agree with him about everything.<BR>Lora

Ditto what Lora said. Many times because there is no pressure for marriage (OW being already married) the affair relationship seems to be so much more intriguing. Also, since, even though you know about it, it hasn't really had the light of day shone on it ... and that is about to change.<P>Can't guarantee that your fears won't come to pass, but remember that the vast majority of affairs 1) don't turn into marriages; 2) don't even turn into divorces. When you feel doubtful, read Harley's materials and any other pro-marriage books/materials that you can. There's nothing like some refreshing statistics to make you feel better, believe me! Knowing how unlikely it is that they will ever have a successful long term relationship has kept me going a lot of the time.<P>Hang in there - no matter WHAT happens, the game is about to change... the ride might get a bit rougher before it smooths out, but YOU will be OK.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Thanks for your replies. I have read the stats and try to stay motivated by remembering them. And I know that OW is being very careful now, hope that last for a very long time. But, when the time comes that it changes, I hope I can stay the course.<P>So many things have changed since he moved out- he now hugs and kisses me when he leaves- he had stopped doing that a couple of months before he moved out. He has told me that he feels differently about me now than he did when his A started, but I didn't ask him to elaborate. This was during a conversation where he told me that for a while, he hated me. All of the family birthdays and holidays have been celebrated here. He has told me he is sorry for little things that bother me- he has apologized more in the past 2 months than in the last 12 years!<P>I know that the ride may get rough for a while- I will need the support of you guys again- thanks for being there! And though I haven't posted in quite a while, I have been following everyone.

Hummm.....interesting-<BR>I have had an article in a drawer in the kitchen for about 8 months now. It was regarding the effect of divorce on children. I had asked H to read it when I printed it- he refused- said the kids would be fine. Well, the article is now missing. H has access to the house and frequently watches the kids here while I'm not home. A couple of weeks ago, a couple of other things were missing- videotapes, pictures of me that I had made for him years ago, etc. And, there was evidence that he watched at least some of our wedding video.<P>Week before last, he called me and wanted to pick up the kids from day care. Last weekend, he spent almost all day Saturday and again Sunday here at the house- without his cell phone!!!! Then on Wednesday night, he called and wanted to pick up the kids from day care and come to the house to cook out- and he did it all cuz I wasn't getting home until 3 hours after he picked them up. We had 12 people for dinner ( all family except 2 friends)- and he cleaned up the kitchen after everyone was finished. Yesterday afternoon, he called to make sure it would be OK if he asked 2 of his friends to meet him at my house- and he stayed for about 2 hours after they left watching TV with no one in the house except the 2 of us. Then, tonight, he called to see if either of the kids wanted to come spend the night with him.<P>Very unusual stuff going on. Wonder what's up?????

I'm the last person to give advice or encouragement (I'm new here and flunking MB 101 badly right now), but those latest developments sound really encouraging. Maybe OW's new availability scared him into some clarity about the situation, so instead of being the bad thing it initially seemed like, it's actually a good thing. I hope so.

worry. but not too much. it's not for certain that her divorce is in an effort to end up with your husband. <P>be assured, that however difficult it would be for your husband to leave your marriage, it will be difficult for her to leave hers.<P>she's going to finally have to recognize what she is giving up and will have to become more attentive (ironically!) to what her relationship with him has meant. this will ultimately create tension and remove alot of the "romanticism" from the affair. she may, as a result, discover the irreversibility of what she is about to do.<BR>been there!<BR>anthea

Strangeness continues.....<P>Son spent the night with H last night, daughter spent the night with 21 year old step daughter. <P>This morning, H called to tell me that son was ready to come home and he was bringing him. They got here about 11. H sat down in recliner and started watching TV- again, no cell phone. Well, he ended up staying until almost 4 and during that time, even took a nap. Daughter was still not home and son was playing in back yard. Conversation was light and easy. Still wish I knew what is going on. He wasn't here to spend time with the kids today and I can't imagine him being unavailable for OW's possible phone call for that long. And if he missed her call, wonder how he would explain it?<P>Oh well, I guess time will tell.

Sounds very promising... take care to stay in a good Plan A right now, but watch and see how long he stays in this "in between" kind of behavior pattern. Don't let him stay there too lont, or he may become comfortable with a part time wife.<P>It is true that one can stay in Plan A too long, but if there appears to be movement BACK toward you, the faithful spouse, then Plan A it is.<P>Good Luck! <P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Terri-<BR>Thanks for your response. I too have been thinking about how long I've been in Plan A. I had sort of planned on Plan B at the 6 month mark- that's coming up pretty soon. But, the kids don't like to spend time at his house- all of their friends and toys are here. So, can you do a Plan B if time spent with the kids is at my house? I don't really think so, which would mean that their relationship with him would change dramatically.<P>Anyway, I think I'll stay in Plan A for now. If his relationship with OW becomes public, I don't know if I would be able to maintain it then. There have been no LB since he moved out- none that I'm aware of anyway.<P>Also, if he is suddenly spending quite a bit more time here at my house, is that an indication of him moving toward me? He may be doing this simply because I asked him to spend more time with the kids. But, I do know from past conversations, that unless he and OW are not talking much right now, he is doing this behind her back- she hates for him to be here.

Any insight into what he is doing???<P>H called me Monday night to tell me he wanted to pick up the kids from day care Tuesday. I told him great- I needed to go shopping- so, he picked them up, brought them to my house, finished dinner, and helped with homework. When I got home, he had taken the trash cans to the road and fixed the outside porch light (these are things I had trouble getting him to do when he was living here). Then, he said he was tired and needed to go. Then about 30 minutes later, he called, asked me to go see if he had a contact case in the bathroom- I did and he did- I asked if he needed to come get it tonight. He said no, his had been broken for a couple of weeks. He would get it another time.<P>Then, yesterday, Valentines Day- the kids had candy for him, so we had planned for us to drop by his house on our way home. The kids told him they wanted him to cook dinner for them- he said another time. Not in their presence, I asked him if he was going out. He said probably for a little while. I was upset, tried to hide it. We got our stuff together and left about 6:30. He was not dressed to go out. Then, at 8, he called. I was on the computer and sent the call to voice mail. He called again. I sent it to voice mail again. Then, he called my cell phone and I answered. He wanted to know if I wanted $60 that he had in cash or in the bank.????? <P>He seems to be thinking up stupid reasons to call. He has been calling for stupid stuff at work too. What's the deal? Anybody have any insight?

Cloudy,<P>It seems to me you are being communicated from that outpost in outer space where all WS aliens live. Yeah, the language is a bit strange, but clearly you may be in touch with intelligent life. <P>So get your decoder ring, and see if you can continue this for awhile until the code can be broken. <P>In short it seems to me he is feeling things out. He probably isn't sure how to deal with you on any other basis but the mundane details of life, so he is. Keep up the Plan A, it seems you have enough love left in the bank for awhile longer. I do suspect he is growing closer to you or more precisely the details of his life before are coming back to him and they aren't all unpleasant.<P>So Plan A, enjoy the conversations, try to laugh or put a smile in your voice when you talk with him. It seems things may be looking up.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cloudy:<BR><B>He seems to be thinking up stupid reasons to call. He has been calling for stupid stuff at work too. What's the deal? Anybody have any insight? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Well...maybe he is sort of like the dog that has been chasing the car, and now doesn't know what to do with it when he has caught it.<P>Having a secret playmate in an affair is very different from having a stressedout girlfriend who moved out and is divorcing, with you in mind as a future mate. Maybe he is getting cold feet. Maybe your Plan A is making a dent, and he wants to gather more data for his decision...hence the renewed contact.<P>I didn't have any affair issues, just a very withdrawn mate, but when we counseled with Steve Harley, he said to me at one point "Congratulations! You have her confused! Plan A is sinking in!"<P>Maybe that is where you're at. You have him confused. <P>

Thanks for your responses. I keep trying to find my decoder ring- I just can't remember where I put it. <P>H called me at work today, asked if I wanted some company after the kids go to bed tonight. He said that when he called last night, he hoped I would ask him to come over and couldn't believe that I told him I was going to bed so early. I didn't tell him that there's no way I was inviting him over after he had a date (but maybe he didn't?) with OW. He truly is an alien sometimes. I'll just do my best to continue Plan A for now. <P>And for the record, I'm becoming more of a believer in the Solo Partner concept of the distancer/ pursuer relationship. It seems that every time I am close to giving up, he senses it and pursues until I am back in the comfort zone, then he pulls back. Hummm... I'll have to remember this!

I pulled up my thread again- I haven't posted since these, but I have been lurking.<P>Anyway, an update:<BR>OW's H filed for divorce and it's set for court next week. Their A is still a secret, or so they think. Apparently, when OW's H filed, the attorney sent him to a private detective. And guess who they sent him to? The detective I used when I was suspicious but didn't know anything for sure. So, OW's H walked into the office, told his name, and instantly they had evidence- mainly cell phone and pager records. At this time, OW's H had suspicions, but only very vague ones- he didn't really know anything. They got my H's latest cell phone records and discovered a new cell phone that OW got the day her H moved out. They also got my H address from his bill. And the surveillance began. They have pictures of OW parking her car in my H's backyard and them closing the gate of the privacy fence so her car couldn't be seen. But, now I'm a little confused. They talk on the phone a lot, but only see each other about 1 time a week and only for about an hour???? What's up with that?<P>So, my H will receive a subpoena sometime this week at work and I guess then they will know that they have been caught! OW was planning on lying about this til the end to increase her child support and decrease his chance of getting custody of their 2 kids.<P>So, the affair hasn't come out in the open yet, but I guess it will soon after her court date. Meanwhile, everything has been going along about the same- still have almost daily communication with H, see him 3-4 times a week, he's still extremely moody, unhappy with his life right now. I'm still in Plan A, but thinking about Plan B more and more. <BR>

cloudy,<P>do you still have love for your H? <P>sounds to me like you do.<P>are you losing that love?..are you at the end of the proverbial 'rope'? doesn't quite sound like it...<P>Plans A & B can at times be worked around a timeframe, but in certain situations, you have to kepp plan-a-ing your heart out...<P>then Plan B may not be for you just yet.....only you can tell that however....plan B is to protect what little love you have for your WS...<P>the stuff he's doing sounds very much like what my H did for the last 2 months of his A....<P>he started making excuses to her (I've got to watch the kids, I have friends over, I'm busy.....etc...)as to why he couldn't spend much time with her, and when she offered to come to our home to be with him, he always made excuses as to why she could not...he even told her our roomate was always here, so he couldn't 'entertain' her (the roomate was living elsewhere for those 3 weeks, I was out of town)...he started spending more time at home, fixing little things I had been asking about for months, etc....<P>when I asked H about that after d-day, heexplained to me that he was trying to 'distance' himself, that he knew all of it had to end, but she was holding on for dear life...<P>it may be the only 'plus' to a conflict avoiding personality...lol...he just started avoiding her...she would get very angry and demanding, drunk and stupid, throwing herself at him, yelling at him to tell me, etc...<P>I see apettern in your H's behaviour...I could be totally wrong, but I think now is the time to Plan-A like you have never Plan-A'd before....show him the 'you' he will be getting if and when he comes home....re-read Plan A, ask for help from lostva (the Plan A queen)because I think that you have something to work with here...<P>as soon as our OW started talking about trips together, a 'life' together, meeting my kids, etc....my H started to 'freak out'...the fantasy bubble had burst....<P>sounds to me like your H's bubble is either bursting, or has a slow leak...LOL..either way, it can be good for you. Sounds like he is using the kids as a 'protective barrier'...eg: "sorry ow, I can;t have you over, I have the kids tonight..etc.."<P>also, leaving his cell away from him is suree to drive her nuts if she can't get in touch with him...he KNOWS this, but does it anyway...your home (the family home) is being seen and used as a refuge by him...some here might say not to allow him to use you and your home that way, but I've got a feeling he is in serious 'run away from ow' mode right now...and YOU <I>can</I> use that to your advantage...<P>remember, her getting a divorce is not really part of the 'fantasy'..she is probably looking like a big mess-filled problem to him right now...and is prob whining and crying and is angry alot...<P>not the attractive affair partner that he started out with is it?!?...<P>plan A, darlin'......Plan A.....learn it, live it, be it, get the t-shirt, get the award.....and get your marriage back....<P>sending good thoughts....<P><BR>Dylan

I agree with Dylan, Sounds just like my H. He moved home 3 weeks ago and told me he was tired of OW constant calling and checking up on him and showing up. That they started fighting. Just keep on being upbeat and happy and doing things with your family and look like a sane and safe ulturnative to the craziness that is going on with OW.<BR>Lora

Dylan-<BR>Yes, I do still have love for my H. At times I feel like I'm at the end of that proverbial "rope"- usually when I know he has had contact with her or he's not seeing the kids cuz of her or something like that. Most of the time, I feel like he loves me too, it's just kind of buried in the "fog". <P>Sometimes the doormat feeling creeps up, but for now, he's finally letting me meet some of his needs and he's trying to meet some of mine- to a degree anyway. I can continue to Plan A, I'm just concerned about the A becoming "known" to my stepkids that are living with him. More concerned about his plan to introduce her to them as a new "friend". Don't know yet how I'll handle that one.<P>Lora-<BR>I've been following your story and I can't tell you how happy I am for you. And I too can see that he is getting tired of her calling- or he's making me think that anyway. He has complained that he can't go anywhere, even to the bathroom without having to explain his absence from the phone. Just this afternoon, he was getting ready to leave- he called daughter on his cell phone, no sooner hung up than his phone rang. He doesn't have caller ID, and answered it-I know thinking it was daughter calling back or he wouldn't have answered it right in front of me. It was her and he made a horrible face, made that motion with his hand like she talks too much and made no attempt to leave my presence. I was on my way out the door too, so I kissed him goodbye (quietly) and left. <P>And I do know too that she is complaining bitterly about the lack of involvement her H has had with their kids since he moved out, complaining about her H a lot. This kind of stuff makes my H think a little at least- he apparently finds himself wondering if I feel the same about him as OW feels about her H.<P>I will continue to Plan A for now unless anyone else has other input.<P>Thanks for your replies!

Since you are seeing progress, I'd agree with continuing your Plan A. This seems like an A that is on its way to self destructing. Keep it up.