Hello to all,<BR> I'll try to summarize the previous events. I have been in Plan B since August. D-day was in April, husband came and left quite a few times before finally leaving in Aug. He had an internet affair and a 2x sexual affair with a YOUNG girl that worked for him, She had his baby in Dec. He rents a room. I do not have a phone number or an address for him, He has respected my "no contact" request almost too well. He does see the kids regularily and pays child support.<BR> As a person, He is a conflict avoider and a relatively passive person. I was always the dynamic person, the mover and the shaker. We married young and were married 23 years. Since he moved out he has made no attempts at reconsiliation.<BR> Since he moved out, I have written to him occaisionally and tried to offer some type of way to reconnect. Some subtle and others not so subtle. He never followed up on anything. <BR> Here is my dilema. I have reconsiled myself to divorce event thought it is not what I want. I have been learning to enjoy my independence yet miss my husband. I filed for divorce to protect my child support. Yesterday was our first divorce hearing and for the first time my husband sat down to talk to me. He said he wasn't sure if he ever wanted to come home.<BR> Later that day I had my 8 year old at counseling. The week before the counselor had met with my husband separately to help my son with his difficulties relating to the divorce. The counselor saild to me, "Your marriage isn't over, your husband just isn't ready to come home yet." I was stunned. Nothing has given me that indication. Another counselor my son saw in the Fall who saw my husband once had said very similiar things. But having never seen anything myself I didn't believe it. <BR> Now what to do? What to think? Do I even want to get back with him? Yes, if we could fix the underlying issues. My husband is notorious for not taking action and also for being a fairly charming liar or (bull**** artist. Could he have just pulled the wool over these 2 counselors eyes in the short time they met with him but I have I seen the real him? Can I wait indefinately for him to make up his mind? Any thoughts out there please respond? I know this is long but I'm more confused now then I was months ago when I thought the marriage was over.<P> Kris<P><BR>

I think I would tell him what the counselor said, and tell him that because of that statement, you want to be sure b4 you finalize the divorce. Ask if he wishes to work on the marriage, with you & a marriage counselor with the goal of reconciling. If he says yes, great...you have a commitment to concrete next steps. If he says no, then I would go ahead & proceed.<P>Hugs--<P>Kathi

Kris,<P>Sadly, I would be inclinded to go with what your H has said. It is after all up to him, make some move in this situation. If you have left channels of communication open and he doesn't use them, you cannot second guess him. It won't help. I suspect your H sees no way out of this except of divorce. If nothing else as punishment for himself.<P>You never know if he continues to just let it go, it may mean that he will need the divorce in order to feel as if he can approach you. It also make make financial sense so that OW and OC don't drain funds away from your children.<P>I really don't know, but you cannot go on vapor. He will have to say something.<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

We all know from our reading these forums that WS's sometimes say some incredibly odd things to others that they won't say to us.<P>I don't want to encourage false hope, but you report that he said to YOU: "He said he wasn't sure if he ever wanted to come home." What is important here, in my eyes (granted, some think that I am a nut) is what he DIDN'T say. He didn't say "I'm glad you are divorcing me." He didn't say "I don't ever want to come home." Don't you think it is a little odd that he didn't say one of those other things? Perhaps, face to face, a conflict avoider wouldn't say those things, but, typically, a conflict avoider wouldn't say ANYTHING at all!<P>Just some food for thought.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Sometimes they don't want to look like the 'bad guy' to couselors and will lead them on and into thinking there is hope when there isn't...yet, on the other hand, Terri might have some insight here. he didn't tell you he never wanted to come home, he just said he wasn't sure...<P>Tough call. I think it is all too fresh and too soon to tell. It's only been six months since implementing Plan B...it takes six months to get through the fog. I'd wait a bit longer and see what happpens late spring, early summer before I made anything final. But that's just my opinion.<P>Catnip =^^=

Thank you Kam, Terri and Just Learning,<P> I did call my husband this morning at work (which I rarely do) and told him I was confused. He said he has been so messed up this past year that he can't "work on anything but himself". <BR> I also think he feels that he can't come back because it's gone too far. I have a close family and they all know and have supported me and now despise him. I think he thinks it's hopeless.<BR> I also think it is easy for him to let me do all the work (4 kids between 6 - 14) and just pop in and visit. The kids love going out with him because he treats them like kings and queens (for 4 hours) while I am left to make them do their homework etc.<BR> He has never done anything on his own. Any major adult decision has either been forced on him or he's been led to it. Now he is refusing to make a decision. How long should I let this go on? <BR> Plan B only made him feel that I was trying to control him and force a decision. I think I will just keep on going as I have. Maybe I can encourage my son's counselor to encourage him to see him (it can't come from me) <BR> Well, thanks again <BR> Kris

I know you're not sure what you should do, or if you want him back. . .you need to decide that first. If you decide you do want him back then he needs to feel safe w/you, at your house, w/your family.<P>What I hear him saying is he is confused-about himself, think about that, not so much that he's confused about YOU, but he's confused about himself. I don't know what that feels like, but it must be very hard for a man to feel like that.<P>IF you do want him back I think he needs to feel that he will be accepted by you & your family. Maybe he sees a roadblock to him comming home?<P>Again, first you need to decide what you want, but if you want him back I hear him saying he might want to come back, but (as a conflict avoider) he can't deal with all he's done and how everyone will view him.<P>Just my thoughts, take care-of you first for now!!

Quakermom321,<P> I'll have to play the devils advocate on this one. If he waited till the divorce hearing to do anything then I'd just consider it more wishy washy stalling. He's been living like a divorced man for a while. If you see the trauma it is causing your children now. It will be double if you "talk" him back into your lives. I might think differently if he showed up prior to being served the D papers. The only way I would take him back as your husband at this point would be if we was on your door stoop, telephone and email every day talking about how he wants back. <P>Look at it this way, you can always date if he decides that he would really want to be back in your life. <BR>I think those circumstances would give you a clearer picture whether he worthy of being your husband and give you the opportunity to find your happiness wherever be. <P>But that's just my opinion, Do what you must.<P>Mike<BR>

Again the people here continue to come through!!! <BR>Hi Fidelity - you are on the money in so many ways. It took no effort to try to talk to me at the divorce hearings when he could have tried too many times before. It is almost like a power struggle or his way of casting blame back on me - he says I just want him to do things by my time table and he has to think of himself right now and can't do anything till he's worked out his own problems. Hearing that makes me want to scream!! Meanwhile I'm doing all the running around etc for 4 kids etc.<BR> Bitsy - He has said consistently that he feels so confused. I don't know if that is just more of his nondecision making or what. I don't know how to remove the roadblocks from him coming home based on what other people are thinking of him - they all want to kill him!!<BR> All I know is that he had the affair, he got someone pregnant, he blames me for making him feel inadequate yet he has done nothing except move out to remedy any of these things.<BR> Thanks again for the feedback it is helping me clarify in my mind reality vs. fantasy. Thanks<BR> Kris

I lean toward what JL said...<BR>...but...<BR>...if you want to get him off of the fence...<P>...he's got to speak to Dr. Harley soon...<BR>...tell you H... it's what you're final need is before you've lost too much love for him.<P>Please... don't make the appointment for him...<BR>It has to be something your H has to do on his own...<P>If you H doesn't do it...<BR>...JL's ideas are the best... for you and the kids.<P> <P>Jim

Dear Qmom,<BR>This isn't exactly a reply to your post, but whether or not you divorce...here's some advice. I'm a mom with 3 kids...Been divorced for years. Get out of town and leave the kids with him for a week. Have him stay at your house if necessary, but let him see what real life is like for a single parent. Too often the absent parent boo-hoos over the cost of child support, or the short visitations (I call them vacations). My ex remarried, moved away and has only seen our kids 4 times in the last 6-7 years. And that totals up to less than 2 weeks.<BR>Let him handle them while you go concentrate completely on yourself. This guy's life has been too easy.

<BR>It is good to see your post, I remember your name from the past.<P>[QUOTE]Originally posted by quakermom321:<BR><B>Since he moved out, I have written to him occaisionally and tried to offer some type of way to reconnect.</B><P>Hmmm...that's in your Plan B? I can see why he stayed on the fence.<P>I'm left with a few impressions:<P>1. Perhaps he would like to reconcile, but just doesn't see you, your angry family, his OC, the whole situation ever working out. Do you think he feels you have or could forgive him? Do you think he could picture a life with you where this mistake was put in the past?<P>2. He has been floating in limbo there between his two "families" and it probably isn't all that uncomfoprtable a place for him. He hasn't had the door shut with you, so he doesn't have tpo face that, and he doesn't have the parental obligations.....considering the way he screwed up his life, this current situation isn't so bad. <P>3. What is the situation with the OW and OC? <P>I think you need to make one OK Corral discussion with him. Say that you can';t live like this, that you are willing to make one more attempt with him, that you require joint counseling, but that you still love him and you can forgive him and put this all behind you. <P>If and only if the answer to the above is no....you are filing hard and fast, and you want joint custody so you can have a life of your own, so he better go buy a 4 bedroom house because he is going to have the kids half the time.<P>Whack! Reality.<P>