i am married and in recovery from an affair. i had hoped to get some good support and tools to continue my husband and i's efforts to work on our marriage.<P>instead, what i have found here are people who, though understandably hurt, are bitter and cruel, but worse, seemingly unaware of how their spouses behaviors have impacted other people's lives.<P>part of my recovery has included accepting responsibility for my actions. not all, but several of these forums appear to be populated by people not looking to make ammends and move forward in a positive manner, but simply venting their rage and seeking revenge.<P>so far in these forums i have encountered the following:<P>1- suggestions of vicious revenge against the OW/OM including suggestions that BS' create threatening and abusive websites about them including doctored nude photos, that the police should be called into it and an amazingly sexist attitude, referring to women as WHORES and worse! (bear in mind please, MOST men in affairs tell these women the marriage is OVER, whether you want to believe it or not)<P>2- suggestions on how to avoid paying child support for a child conceived from an affair. i will refrain from calling this child an OC as it reflects the basic premise i've noticed here that these children have no right to exist. which is practically medeival.<P>3- personally, i was attacked and called a LIAR because someone didn't believe my story? no one ever bothered to reply to me with any cohesive or constructive advice, until AFTER they put me in a position where i had to defend my truth. <P>clearly i don't belong here (as i have been told several times -- after trying to make a constructive suggestion in one forum, i was referred to as a DUNG beetle???? bizarre and peculiar) as i had hoped this was a forum full of like-minded people. married and desperately doing what they could to make it work and bring love and harmony back to their lives. i am sad to say that it takes much work to find that in here.<P>i can't imagine that any counselor would advise this sort of behavior, and if this one does, something's WRONG!<P>please bear in mind, as well, that some of your petty and vicious behavior is actually litigious and, if out of decency, you can't take the high road, bear in mind that you are threatening the safety of your family by behaving in some of these felonious and hurtful behaviors. and the mental health of your children who watch you deny and refute the existence and care of another child.<P>

These forums are completely open to all.<P>The suggestions of a few... aren't always the best...<BR>The moments of biiterness <B>can</B> and <B>do</B> linger...<BR>...and when the pain from a spouse fighting our attempts recovery with an incredible ferocisty hits one square in the face...<BR>...thoughts will <B>not</B> be clear...<BR>...and a sounding board for "clarity" is just a little... to ask for.<P>These thoughts... are not at all indicative of the many good and helpful people on the forums...<BR>...and what benefit you can derive from them...<BR>...or even the quality of the person behind them.<P>Being called names and a liar are <B>never</B> warranted...<BR>...and in the heat of an argument... it is as it is...<BR>...we all say things we shouldn't...<BR>...that's why the world will never be erradicated of LBs.<P>The people here are <B>not</B> counselors...<BR>The people here (some at least) don't even believe in many of the MB concepts...<BR>...especially the very new to the forums...<P>Please don't judge the benefit gained here...<BR>...by the words/actions of a few!<P>Please consider the confusion many are in...<BR>...when the pain hurts a bit too much.<P> <P>Jim

Hi,<P>I'm sorry if you feel unwelcome or that you have been mistreated. I assume from the tone of your post that you are the unfaithful spouse, and it is true that most posters here are on the other side, so to speak. My husband is the betrayer in our marriage, but he posts here sometimes and is always treated with respect and care. It all depends on how you represent yourself on this site. Betrayers who are remorseful and sincere about atoning for their mistakes are treated in a more friendly manner than those who refuse to accept responsibility and admit their mistakes.<P>I haven't seen ANY of your other posts, so I don't know about the interaction you cited. Perhaps another site would be more comfortable or helpful for you. It probably would be difficult for you to receive much benefit from this forum after the incidents you mentioned, plus the tone of your above post.<P>I'm sorry you didn't find what you were looking for here, and hope you will have better luck elsewhere.<P>Peppermint

Hi Anthea.<P>From one social worker to another.<P>One of the central tenets of social work is to start where the client is. To me, this means overlooking a lot of pain, anger, and <BR>lashing out. Much of this has more to do with the responder than you.<P>On the other hand, as a social worker, you are called to be introspective and self analyzing. For me, but maybe not for you, this means that I must search myself and try to be intellectually consistent. For example, if I really beleive that it is in my children's best interests to have an intact family, I must be open to the possibliity of reconciliation, however painful that may be to me.<P>Thirdly, another core value of social work is client self determination. What is best for someone else may not be best for you. However, they have the right to make that decision. If you have been in the SW business for any time at all, you have stories of clients who did something that you thought was terrible, but was their informed choice. Those mothers that are looking for ways to not pay CS to the OC are looking to protect their families. Now you may disagree with their methods, but I support their right to the information.<P>Don't take this stuff so seriously. If you check back in my history on the board, I have also been the target of some slings and arrows because of my life choices. Can't change the past, just try to live a better future.<P>Good Luck to you.<P>Gramps

Anthea,<BR>Is using the correct, though derogatory term for someone "sexist"? My h's *former* OW had met me, knew he was married, she told me over a year into their physical affair that she didn't "date" married men, well he was/is married and so what did she call what she was doing? (rhetorical question, I have no idea what she thought she was doing, other than doing him.) <P>You spoke in the other thread of the "goodness" of women. She's not a good person, she may not be evil either, but in getting involved with my H and staying involved for 18 months, taking him away from his children & marriage, she did quite an equally as bad a thing as he did. Maybe worse since she had previously broken up her own marriage for some other guy. I happen to love my H, I don't love her, though I have learned to pity her--a small amount.<P>I thank God a child was not a result of that affair. But as you posted on the Pregnancy/Child Board, your H had children previous to your marriage, that is a completely different issue than a child born to an OW during marriage and the people on that board responded very angrily to you, but you are free to give your opinion, don't expect a lot of aggreement of the "goodness" of women from women who first were betrayed and also there is a child that is now part of their lives. Until some healing takes place that child will always be a reminder of the pain & betrayal of the affair.<P>You also say your affair outside of your marriage happened due to (your post):<P>"unforseen circumstances. this was not something i planned on. i value my marriage. but it is a rare ocassion when we meet someone with whom we have such a great deal in common. it did not begin as a sexual relationship and that was not the intention. however, i discovered during the course of this relationship that my judgement was bad. and that though it was a struggle for me to consider leaving my husband, this person had a history of cheating and didn't have similar respect for his wife or children."<P>This is just how most affairs start. Oh, and I was both a wayward & betrayed spouse, so I know more about this than I wish to.<P>These forums are used for venting, it something that some of us say what is on our minds without hurting our spouse. There isn't a lot of love for posters who defend the OP. Even as some of the WS are the OP in someone else's marriage, but if they, or you, are really wanting to rebuild their marriage, there is a lot of support.<P>We do rebuild marriages here, not everyone is angry, bitter or cruel, but many here can be if their buttons are pushed. Or a thread, like the one on revenge on the OP may bring out the worst in us--things most of us wouldn't do, but a few here have. It's a thread I didn't read, because I no longer care to give any brain space to think about revenge on the OW...(most of the time). After awhile, you learn what kinds of threads just won't help your frame of mind and you stay away from them.<P>You don't have to agree, you don't have to fall in some enforced line. The majority of us are here because of being on one or more of the painful sides of infidelity. Somedays literally everyone on the boards is having a bad day.<P>But on other days, sanity and marriages are helped and supported. I notice you didn't go through and pick out all the good things you've seen, only the bad. You can take any slant on MB that you want.<BR>

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST<P>This poster is an OW from another forum Affair-help.com. She has numerous identities that she has created she has posted as a BW, a cheating MM and even a marriage counselour. She has driven just about everyone away from the other forum except for the OW of course. She enjoys attention so if you don't post to the she will go away.

TMD, If you're talking about the Keybridge site and Kayla/susie/Dr. Eleanor--I thought so, too.

thank you for the few, but thoughtful and decent replies to this post. i especially appreciated the one from the fellow social worker! finally a kindred soul with some solid advice!<P>i was just feeling better when i got to the end of the thread and found more accusatory responses...frankly i don't know what the hell affair help is or what you people are talking about, but i can only say that maybe the mistrust in your lives is making you PARANOID! <P>what is hilarious to me is that most of what you are saying is SO out of left field i honestly don't know what the hell you people are talking about! and at this point i find it amusing! everytime i post something there are people telling me i'm not who i say i am and you haven't even gotten to know me yet!<P>it's starting to feel a little insane actually! umm...i'm not a mm, i was a bs at one point, i'm not a marriage counselor..never said i was! i don't know what the hell keybridge is, but i've never been there or dr. elenore for that matter. i don't really know what the heck you people are on about but you sure spend alot more time attacking people than talking!<P>seems like just cuz you don't like what i have to say you think i'm here to attack YOU.<BR>when the truth is i still don't know what's so offensive about my posts! that i think calling women whores and *****es is sexist and abusive? and being a dead beat parent is abhorrent. did i walk into some sort of evil parallel universe!<P>i'm not even hurt by it anymore. i think i gave folks a little too much credit sadly!<BR>

Anthea, perhaps you need to look a little more objectively and compassionately at the people who are posting here. Yes, there is some venom, and all BS can tell you that bitterness plays a major part in their lives. Yes, their are some who question your motives, but you have been somewhat inconsistent in your postings. And yes, some people have expressed anger with you. Why? Lets look at some excerpts from your posts:<P>"i was the OW of an WS who was diagnosed as manic-depressive. <BR>i can tell you now in retrospect with a better idea of what that means that his wife who has consistently taken him back and tried to make things better has destroyed her own self-esteem. <BR>she has also set a bad example for her daughters."<P><BR>So you cheated on your husband with a married man, whose wife took him back, tried to help save the marriage...and SHE'S setting a bad example for her kids? What would be a GOOD example? "oh, your dad's got a mental illness, so I left him" What kind of message is that?<P>Then:<P>"i have alot of male friends and i have to say, that though women are likely to walk away...if they stay..they mean it.<BR>many men on the other hand, continue to cheat as they are unlikely to have to confront the reasons for why they have done so in the first place."<P>You know, most of the people I've been trading stories with here are MEN who were faithful to the end...their wives were the ones who cheated, and continued to cheat even after they were found out. Don't lay the blame for all the world's woes at the feet of men. Sit down and chat with my STBX for awhile.<P>Then:<P>"i've discovered that my OM has given me an STD and it didn't come from me. my dr. is now going to give me an HIV test as well. my dr. suggested that i let the wife know since we know he is a liar and will not tell her. personally, i don't want to speak to him or her. and i don't want to upset her, but i do want to be responsible. i started by asking him to discuss it, but he's in complete denial about anything in regard to me now, since he's supposedly "trying to get back with his wife" anyway, but regardless, he's left ALOT of unfinished business. i don't think his wife has any idea that we actually had a physical affair, but just thinks i'm delusional."<P>Yes, I'd say you're delusional! Let me get this straight: You got an STD from someone else's husband, and you think you're trying to be RESPONSIBLE??? You take him to task for being a "liar" but what did you do? Scr**ed another woman's husband??? And you don't want to upset her...that is really rich! You scr**ed her husband, got an STD from him, and you don't want to UPSET her?<P>I'm sorry if I'm sounding a little mean, but you are sending mixed messages here. On the one hand, you're saying you are in recovery and trying to save your marriage, but on the other hand you're slamming all men as cheating liars, and throwing venom at your ex-OM's wife for being "stupid" for taking him back...what gives?<P>I am even more shocked to find that you claim to be a social worker. After seeing the pain and destruction that affairs and divorce cause, how can you justify your own actions?<BR><p>[This message has been edited by cjack (edited February 12, 2001).]

Anthea,<P>It would appear that you might not return to read this but I'll post it just in case. Sorry for your poor first impression of these boards. I'm glad too see that this sight can attract people of your disposition and caliber of emotional control that many of the rest us can only hope to achieve during a moment of pain, rage or terror. <P>Life is full of good and bad. The parts you choose to pick up and carry around with you are mostly a matter of choice. I would ask you to look at these postings and try too see the good, even those rageful venting ones. If someone from this site flamed me for one of my positions, outside of a little reciprocating banter, I would feel good knowing that I let that person alleviate some of what's bothering them outside of their own home at no real emotional cost to me. Many times I have found venting here as a much better alternative to screaming at the top of my lungs or beating my head on a wall. I even participated in the revenge thread you mentioned and found most of it intended to be humorous. <P>Just imagine how interesting and exciting life would be if we all thought alike and no one ever stretched our view of the world by challenging our position. I guess what I'm saying here is if you have to pick up and carry something around you didn’t care for found on this site, then drop it on our head and try to expand our view of the world to at least the point of knowing were you're coming from. It would seem to me to be far more productive than making a generalized declaration and a quick exit.<P>I would be more than happy to loan out a few layers of my skin (as it has become quite thick at this point) so you stick around long enough to share your view of this challenge we are all facing. Even if it is long enough to tell me that I'm a !@#$! for asking you to do so.<P><BR>Best Regards,<BR>Mike<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hi Infidelity (edited February 14, 2001).]