I decieded to talk to the Harleys about plan B and wouldnt you know it, this is the week if the cruise so they are not available.<P>So I have to wait til next Wed. Maybe I will work on my letter before then. I think I am ready. I think I dont want to continue as we are any more. Of course that could change by tomorrow. <P>Lora

Last week when I talked to Steve Harley I had finished my Plan B letter and was ready to give it to my H, on the advice of Steve H and several people on this forum. Immediately after I gave it to him though, I blew it. He was raging at me after reading an e-mail from a far-away friend who responded to my venting about OW repeating my description - "fat, ugly, w****" - and questioning whether he might be using drugs (he has history of serious substance abuse) because of his strange behavior. My resolve crumbled in the face of his rage and I pleaded with him to stop the horrible accusations he was making. Later he called as though nothing had happened saying we should be "just friends." I clearly am not strong enough yet to maintain a good Plan B - especially since we own and operate a business together. I wish you better luck and a stronger resolve than me.

Letstry,<P>Sounds like you H is using 2 typical male communication devices. A good offense is the best defense, and if I pretend it doesnt exist, it doesnt.<P>He used anger and acusing you to stop your plan. He put you on the defensive and changed your resolve. I think you should just say I'm sorry if reading that hurt you and get back to your plan.<P>As far as being friends, tell him or write him again, that you have no interst in being friends with him while he is with OW. That you want to be his wife and his best friend and wont settle for less. Reread that plan B letter and mean it!<P>I think I will have it easy since my H doesnt talk to me anyway. A plan B letter should make him a happy camper...giving him exactly what he wants.. me asking him to not call when he doesnt want to.<BR>Lora

Great suggestions, but why is it so hard for me to hear that feedback? It's the same feedback I've gotten several times here as well as from Steve Harley. Here's the "buts": I've only been Plan A'ing for a month or so, H and I work together, which makes coordinating Plan B difficult, I'm afraid I'll blow it again, I go through horrible withdrawal every time I don't see him for a few days (I have to add that after about a week I start feeling a little better), my feelings change every day with his behavior, i.e. if he "loves" me, I think I should continue Plan A, if he hates me, Plan B, if he's indifferent, I'm confused. Today I'd probably be giving him exactly what he wants, too.<P>One more thing. We've been having heavy snow, which means several of our employees need rides to and from work. H has been pretty uninvolved since the A started because he feels uncomfortable (knows he's lost respect from most if not all our employees). Today he offered to pick up and drive at the change of shift. He showed up at work with OW, former employee, in his car. The woman he dropped off at work said he was acting rediculous, like he's 17 yrs old (He's actually 48). It was humiliating for me since everyone at work knows about A to have it rubbed in my face.<P>Sorry to use your thread to focus on myself. I'm pretty preoccupied these days... I hope Plan B works out for you, even if your H doesn't seem to care. If it doesn't work with him, I hope it helps you.

Letstry,<P>I know how hard it is to let go. I have that same feeling that somehow I can hang on to him by plan a or by keeping some contact with his mail or litening to his voice mail.<BR>But it really seems sometimes when you really let them go it changes the dynamics of your relationship. All of a sudden when you stop moving towards him, he stops running away.<P>Your H sounds like he is still deep in the fog of his affair, defending OW, showing up at work with her. It sounds really disrepectful to you and I think if you stand up for yourself it will be a good thing. <BR>Lora

Lora,<BR>Thanks for your caring responses since I know you must be hurting, too, to have arrived at your decision. On your suggestion, I went to reread Plan B letter and found that H had deleted it - I found it in the recycle bin... Even though he had his copy already, this one had a note at the bottom for OW. The letter referred to our recent lovemaking, something I'm sure he doesn't want her to know about! Sadly, I only wrote it a week ago, but I couldn't have written with the sentiment today.<BR>You say your Plan B letter will make your H a <BR>"happy camper." Do you still have any hope of saving your marriage, or are you doing this mostly for yourself?

Do I have any hope of saving my marriage? <P>Some days yes and some days no. Sometimes I can see that his affair will never work.. she is married and has children. But then somedays I dont think we could make our marrige ever work again either. I relize how hard it is for him to express himself, and I think he has low selfesteem as well. I have spent a year working on those same problems,it was grueling and I feel like I have just begun and I just dont know if he would be willing to do the same. <P>Maybe I think plan B will let me let go of that last little bit of hope for our marrige and let me move on. <BR>Lora

Your feelings sound so familiar to me. I also believe that the affair will end, eventually. She's married and has a 3 yr. old. She's 22 and he's 48. He is acting and sounding totally unlike himself since he's been with her. He's cut off all interaction with his family and only speaks to the kids in passing (they are his sister's kids - she and her H lost custody due to drug abuse and we have legal custody), he no longer comes to work, but he used to be there every day and very involved in all decisions. She really is fat and unattractive. He described her lovingly (!) as "the strongest woman I ever met, I think she was meant to be a man," and went on to describe their "great" idea - for her to shave her head and him to grow his long so that from behind people would think he was the girl... This from a formerly relatively sane man. Even though I didn't really discover the affair until after they moved in together at the beginning of December (he said he was living alone but I went to where he was staying while he was gone and talked to her), and he denies anything before that except "friendship," it's really been going on for years. He fired 2 women for saying they'd witnessed her giving him a blow-job 3 years ago while I was away visiting my father (of course, at the time, I believed him). She told an ex-friend, still an employee, that they were screwing around the whole time. Well, he stopped having sex with me for two years, right after I was diagnosed with breast cancer (imagine how that made me feel), so that makes sense. And now he blames me for everything wrong in our relationship. Sorry, I'm getting carried away.<P>I relate to your comment about how you've been working for a year on your self-esteem issues and how you don't know if he'd be willing to do the same. I read in a book called "Getting the Love You Want" that couples usually have the same issues but opposite ways of expressing them. Even my H recognizes this at times (he rages, I withdraw, for example), but most of the time his stance is that he isn't interested in working on anything and just wants to stay where he feels good. I also fear that when/if his affair ends, it may be too late for us. <P>I also think of Plan B as a way to let go and move on. I know this isn't necessarily the Harley's point of view, but if/when I finally do it, it will be for that reason, otherwise I'll be doing it as a manipulation to scare him into coming back, which I know won't work. I just don't know if I'm ready to take that step.<P>I'll be interested to hear how it works out for you. Good luck. I appreciate this dialogue with you, but it's too bad no one else, someone with more experience for your sake, has joined in.

One more thing. You may already know this, but there are lots of good Plan B letters on this site - I think I got them in links in Notable Posts about Plan B by NSR. I'd send you my botched one if you'd be interested. I borrowed heavily from the ones I read here but added my own details.

Geeze,<BR>Are you my twin? I had breast ca 4 years ago now.<P>I withdraw and my H rages too, although at the end he just stopped speaking to me. <P>Cracked me up about the hair thing. Now that you should write down so that you can remind him of it when he comes back to reality. So it doesnt sound like physical attraction is a big part of their relationship. Sounds more like admiration of a young inexperianced unattractive woman. I heard the friends thing for a year too. When he said he was trying to end it with her it was the most he ever admitted to.<P>I dont think plan B is supposed to be a punishment, it is supposed to be more for you to survive the waiting. When they are continueing the affair it hurts so much to hear their back and forth, get your hopes up only to figure out they are back at it next time you talk.<P>I sort of copied the plan B letter from the book, I just dont have the energy or desire to make it too detailed. Maybe I did wait too long to send it.<BR>Lora<p>[This message has been edited by Lora (edited February 13, 2001).]

You know, my memory's really shot since the chemo and the instant menopause, or maybe it's the stress? But, I don't think I'll forget that one...<P>I know about the purpose of Plan B, but I just know what my real motives have been, though they're changing now.<P>You wouldn't want to see my Plan B letter. As I said, even though I only wrote it a week ago, I could not write all the loving sentiments right now. I'd write something much more short and sweet. My H is avoiding me right now anyway. Every time he does this, I go through withdrawals. About when I start to feel better, he calls or contacts me.<P>Are you giving a copy to the OW? Are you going to wait until you talk to the Harley's again before you deliver it/them?

I know what you mean. When H wasnt talking to me I did well, then the whole Christmas and contact happened and I have been having a hard time ever since.<P>I am undecieded about the letter to OW. I would love to send it to her home for her and her H to read, but dont have the adress. Well, maybe not but its an evil thought of mine. They work at the airport and I am not sure I can mail it to her there. So I am still debating. I will wait to talk to the Harleys, and I may wait til after we do our taxes too.<P>Ive waited this long...<BR>Lora

I told you my H deleted the letter I wrote to OW as recommended by the Harley's. Obviously he didn't want her to read it - probably didn't want her to know he was "cheating" on her. So much for the "honesty" he says they have in their relationship. The Harley's recommend it for that very reason since WSs often lie to OPs. Imagine lying to your "soulmate"? I forgot about taxes, that's food for thought. No matter how I do Plan B, I can't cut off all contact since H and I own a business together (in fact, I should be at work now rather than sitting here on the computer at home). We have monthly meetings we both have to be at, at the very least.<P>My devious thought this morning was this: H and I were supposed to be at wedding of his ex-wife's daughter Feb. 23. She (bride) and I have gotten kind of close recently and she's been calling me and leaving messages. I didn't call back until today because I was feeling too humiliated. Well, she'd heard because her mom (H's ex) told her he might come with his new girlfriend. I told her it was fine if she invited H and OW, thinking of my own motives not bride's, because I think he'd be ashamed to bring her. But bride doesn't want strangers at her wedding anyway. I felt kind of selfish, but I had this great picture of bride calling H, OW always answers, and inviting her to wedding so H would have to take her... <P>On a somewhat different subject: what are you doing for/about Valentine's day? I've been dreading it. A friend who's H is out of town just invited me out to dinner. Nice of her, that helps. Are you doing something nice for yourself?

My H has never admitted the affair to his family either, I dont think he ever will take her there.<P>I have been home sick the past 2 days and plan to stay home tomorrow too. Since my eyes are already watering I wont be able to tell the difference. Maybe I will go get some cold meds and some chocolate to celebrate.<BR>Lora

Ha Ha, very funny. Well, one way or another, we'll get through it. I just had a long conversation with my step son (He's only 2 yrs younger than OW). He was lecturing me about staying on Plan B - I guess his dad told him about it!