Guess who came to see me today at work?<P>NO, not Bill Clinton...<P>Not Hilary either.<P>My husband came in to see me at work today. No, he didn't come to wish me a belated Happy Valentine's Day.<P>No, he came to tell me that he got word back from the bank that they wouldn't take his name off of the joint checking account - he has to close it and I have to open a new account. I was calm and cool to him, but NOT HAPPY. It really sucks that I have to suffer because HE gets crazy.<P>And he wanted to add that he and I have to get together sometime soon so that he can come and get his tools.<P>Huh?<P>You know, I really should NOT be surprised by anything he does, especially after being on this forum for over two years... but I CANNOT believe he really believes that anything in my home belongs to him anymore! If it wasn't so hurtful it'd be amusing...<P>And then, after he told me that stuff, he hung around and talked to me and just kind of rambled about things.<P>How does one say "No, you cannot come into my home and take a single thing out of it" in a loving and non-LB manner? I'm not joking about this - I truly need help with this. I am trying to write a letter - I think it needs to be a Plan B letter, and it needs to be clear that anything he left behind no longer belongs to him.<P>Suggestions are welcome. Thank you all in advance.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

My husband left taking absolutely nothing with him. Apparently OW (married) also did the same. They (undoubtedly my H not her, she's only 22, he's 48) have bought furniture, washer/dryer, all new clothes, that I know of, who knows what else. He also bought himself an old Porsche and has apparently tried to buy a new house!<P>I know how you feel about him coming in your house, but even though it may seem morally wrong, I don't know what your legal rights are. In this state everything is community property, so I guess his Porsche is my Porsche, his house would be my house, whatever that means... His purpose seems, at least in part, to be to make me out to be the greedy one with the house and all its contents in my possession, since he's said as much. I also have the kids he's abandonned along with me.<P>It's just so amazing how hurtful they can be over and over again with seeming oblivion. As my H always says, "I didn't mean to hurt you." Yeah, right, did you ever think about NOT hurting me instead of just doing one insensitive thing after another? Sorry to be venting on your thread, but I think you need to find out what your legal rights are as far as him coming and taking things from your home, which I'm assuming belongs to both of you.

<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited February 16, 2001).]

terri,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How does one say "No, you cannot come into my home and take a single thing out of it" in a loving and non-LB manner? I'm not joking about this - I truly need help with this. I am trying to write a letter - I think it needs to be a Plan B letter, and it needs to be clear that anything he left behind no longer belongs to him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You don't need advice. You just need to write the letter. Just write it AND deliver it---following through with this is important. IMO you've been in Plan A too long (for your marriage's sake), and I would just go through this process of a no-contact separation, even though it may mean the end of your marriage.<P>Because it's very unlikely that staying in the current pattern is going to do you or the marriage any good.<P>God bless, terri.<P><BR>

Hey Terri,<P>I went thru the same gig with getting Vals name off the account, no surprise there.<P>She asked for her Cardioglide and stepper a few weeks ago. I think it was a BS attempt to contact me. Haven't heard about the equipment since. The stuff is just taking up space in the attic. When the warmer weather comes, I just open the window and start chucking stuff out. My own way of house cleaning.<P>I tend to agree with K, it's past time.<P>I have been D for over a month and she is Plan Aing me now. Go figure.<P>He wants his stuff back now? Too bad, how sad. Tell him to build a bridge and get over it. I would avoid his calls.<P>It's time for Terri to heal. You must fix yourself first. Took me awhile to learn that.<P>Wishing us all the Best,<P>Zippy

Terri,<P>You have been in Plan A way too long. Being in Plan A too long has enabled your H's inconsiderate behavior. It has taught him how to treat you with disrespect.<P>If you need to say something to him, be honest with him. Contact him only through Plan B.<P>If he wants his stuff...then he should have gotten it out long ago. He hasn't been living with you anyway. Your house isn't a stopover or a storage shed!<P>Are you legally separated? If you aren't, then I think that you should think about it, so that you can protect yourself.<P>Stop allowing your H to treat you like this. Allow him to experience what the consequences to his actions are.

<BR>I agree with K that you've been in Plan A too long (I remember saying this at your 13 month mark, believe it or not). However, he's legally still your husband and while its past time for Plan B, he probably has legal options to *force* you to give him some of the assets in your house. My view is that you should POJA a separation aggreement with him soon and don't abuse the fact that its "your house" if you have any hope remaining of reconciliation. I doubt he'll come around at this stage in the game, but slapping him around pre-separation kind of negates the self-growth part of Plan A IMO.<P>Bystander

My stbx did the same thing about a month ago, looking for some blanket that her aunt made for her. I truely did not know what she was talking about, and told her so.<P>She has also asked for some pictures, since she also left without thinking of any of that stuff. Had she asked shortly after she left (almost a year ago) I would have said no problem. Now, gimme your TS card and I'll punch it for you.<P>Of course, I will be the bad guy here. Anything I do that is not exactly what she wants makes me the bad guy. Not my problem. Either she will get over it or she won't.<P>On a related note, my 7 year old will not allow any pictures of his mother displayed in our house. We had a family picture with her in it up. He took one look at it, said "there is something wrong with this picture" and asked us to take it down.<P>Out of the mouths of babes.

when my H moved out I packed for him. He left almost everything, furniture, stereo video, tv, computer.<BR>After he moved out he had still his stuff here(he was going to share a place with his niece and he had a limited space so he just left stuff here), and it really irritated me so I just told him that I will be put them outside at certain date, time, and he took them finally. After that he never ever asked me to take his stuff(well, he already gave me these valuables so he can't change his mind!) from MY place.<P>I think that you write him a letter is the best way, and after that he won't have a wrong idea of getting *his* stuff from YOUR place.<P>Meg<BR>

I'm sorry that I haven't carried on my attempt to save my marriage in the manner in which many of you seem to believe that I should. I have done the best that I can do with the situation that I am in and with what I believe to be the best way to approach it. I want to point out that I did not ask to be told IF I should go to Plan B - I asked for help writing my Plan B letter.<P>I am disappointed in some of your responses to me. Whether or not it is anyone's opinion that I have been in Plan A too long or what, my situation is what it is. When I posted my original message, I was angry at my husband. I DID need help trying to say what I need to say without it being angry too - and I asked for that help.<P>I had truly believed that is what I would have gotten from the people I have supported for so long on this forum - help. I am not saying that your observations are wrong or bad - just that what I need right now is certainly not to be told "you've been enabling him" - what I need is "here is how I would say that."<P>Part of me wants to have a tantrum and say that I don't want to post here anymore (I already sat here and cried). But another part of me realizes that nobody here really knows what it is to walk in the shoes of any other forum member. Nobody really knows what is going on, what I or anyone else is truly feeling inside - what our personal experience with our spouses tells us or what our own personal belief systems tell us. So nobody can truly know how long anyone else should stay in Plan ANYTHING... and nobody can really understand how hurtful it is to me to get what amounts to judgment rather than constructive assistance.<P>I will say this: I really don't think I will post any more about my own marriage. I'll look in regularly and try to offer constructive assistance to others as I have always done. I think I've learned a lot of lessons this week...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Hey Terri,<BR>Dont take it personally, we are all just trying to figure out what the best thing to do is. Remember that everyone who is on this board is the fixer of their relationship. We want to fix ours and yours and everyones. Noone has all the right answers. You could have done things letter perfect and maybe it still wouldnt have made a difference.<P>I think the point to remember again is that plan B is mostly for you. At some point you have to put yourself first. If you are like most of us we realize after awhile, that talking to our spouses while they continue the affair and we continue to have some hope just to have it dashed again, is a very draining and demoralizing thing. After awhile of not talking to them you do start to feel stronger and realize that you can go on. Then for me once I talk to him again I am just thrown back into dispair and confusion. <P>Anyhow we all are just doing the best that we can. Take care of you. <BR>Lora

Terri,<P>You & I have been on this forum long enough to know that when any of us posts a message, we will not always agree with the advice that is given by other forum members.<P>If you are disappointed in me or anyone else on this forum, because of our responses, please don't take it personally. We respond as honestly as we can.<P>I, being one of the old-timers here, have been reading your posts and have been trying to keep up-to-date on your progress. We care about you and want you to take care of you.<P>Just because you don't like a person's advice, doesn't mean that it should discourage you from ever posting again. Isn't that what this public forum is for? To get advice, whether we think it benefits us or not? There are plenty of people here with different kinds of opinions.<P>We're looking at your situation from "an outsider's point of view" and want to help. You've been hurting for a long time and want you to be happy again.<P>Don't be discouraged. Keep posting.

Terri,<P>You do what you feel is the best for you, that is all anyone can do. <P>Plan B I have never gotten that far nor will I if we seperate again, that is it for me, my H has put me through enough. I can look myself, my sons, my MIL & most importantly God in the eye & say I tried, maybe not always well but I tried & I can live at peace with that.<P>I am not very good with words, much less giving them to some else but do what is right for you. when I do write my H or more like when sometimes it would take me a wk to write what I wanted, i write, edit, sit on it, think, pray, reread it & sometimes send. You should see my draft file, I have so many I have never sent.<P>sorry that anyone hurt you, doubt if they intended to do so. Prayers your way.

Terri,<BR>Maybe the "I'm new here excuse" is kind of lame, but I don't have any idea what kind of advice to give you. I don't have any idea what to do about my own situation. I did send a Plan B letter based on letters I found through links in the Notable Posts section. I then did exactly what everyone told me not to do and begged and pleaded with my husband not to call me evil because I suspect him of substance abuse and voiced as much to a trusted friend via e-mail. <P>You are one of the people who's posts I look for because you've been around here a long time and seem to have a lot of wisdom to offer others. You're definately right that no one knows what anyone else is going through, but I think we're all here because we're hoping that people here are a lot more likely to understand and empathize than our families and friends who've never been through anything like this.

Terri,<P>I did not respond to your first post because I don't know what will work. I have told my H that I does not have "free access" to the house, but I am not sure that they hear what they don't want to hear. My H has been gone two years, he divorced me, the separation agreement states that we have already divided up the stuff, yet he still has many of his belongings here. I am not going to prevent him from taking the stuff that he brought into the marriage, but he does not seem to be in any hurry to get it. He obviously trusts me not to throw it out. <P>I think a lot of people really do not want to hear about situations where the Harley methods have not worked, or they want to convince themeselves that they really have worked because they no longer love the WS. People really want to believe that within a relatively short time frame, either the WS comes back, or you don't care anymore.

Dear Terri,<P>I know you probably are feeling with his latest comments and requests that he is taking steps to move further away from reconcilliation. I know that hurts, especially after all you have been doing for the past years.<P>Terri, you were specific with your request for help. I'm sorry that this thread just caused you more pain, but believe me - you are appreciated deeply on this board - at least by me, and I suspect by many others. We do care about you, AND your marriage.<P>I read this last night, and didn't respond, and then read your last response, and didn't response, and I've been hurting for you all night. I just dont' know what to say, except sending hugs, and hope that you are feeling better?<P>God Bless You.<BR>TNT

The hardest thing to accept is as Nellie said, that maybe in ones own marriage these methods didn't work and our spouse is maybe never going to reconcile. Terri I didn't respond to your post before but I wanted to now to say this. You are not part of some small number of people whose spouse doesn't come back if he doesn't come back. It happens to many of us. Nellie is right. We don't want to hear about the ones that don't come back. And when the don't come back that makes it so much harder because we've hung on so long to those statistics and that hope. I am only just now reaching the point of accepting that my husband is not coming back and I have been in a Plan B I suppose you'd call it since our divorce in December. I also still have some of my husbands at my house which was our house for over 20 years. In a way I don't want him to come and get them. I guess thats the last bit of hope holding on.

Dear Terri,<P>I am truly sorry to hear of all the pain you are going through. You have been a source of great encouragement to many (myself included). It is true that we all do not know (nor should know) all the details that affect the feelings and personal decisions of others. Often the best way is the hardest way to take. When we do not have full control (in a loving way over someone's life - like a mother with a child), we cannot stop them from their very visible foolishness. <P>I know that. I personally do all within my power to stop someone from making a fool out of themselves and instead of gratitude I get yelled at and many other things. This happens not just with our WS but even in other areas of our life (like work, etc.). Does that mean we stop caring and trying? Maybe, depends on how strong our character is. We all have to live with ourselves. <P>In my case, my H did take 'most of his stuff', I told him what is left belongs to me (in this state that is legal) and then promptly changed the locks. Initially he became violently angry in his outbursts (only verbally) and I had to look past that. <P>Within 1 week, he calmed down and realized that if he wanted anything in the house, he would have to be nicer to me. Which he did. He has since learned to respect my home, asks to come and knocks at the door (like any other visitor). <P>This step which I considered at the time 'drastic' actually worked. I needed him to respect me. I did it not knowing his final reaction. But for that matter neither did he. Why am I telling you all this? To show that even when we are in the middle of a situation, regardless of how well we know someone, time, thinking and things can change to a course we may have never thought of. <P>Am I trying to get your hopes up for a reconciliation? No. I personally do not have control over that (or I would). What I am trying to do is help keep you positive on yourself and see life as it really is: People can change for the good or the bad, we individually can control those within our home (ourselves and children). The rest (WS, OP, relatives, friends, etc.) will do what they choose and the consequences are their own. Sometimes it may touch or hit our lives, but that is the part we need to acknowlege and watch from a safe distance. If and when we are asked (by WS) for assistance &/or forgiveness (whatever it may be), then the ball is back in our court and the decision now is up to us. <P>Sorry for rambling. You are an important person. At this time your pain can not be taken completely away by all who care. But just know that you are "2 good 2 B 4gotten". (Something that was popular when I was in high school - is that giving away my age?)<P>Take Care,<BR>L.

Oh Terri I'm so sorry that you got your feelings hurt here. You are going through so much right now and to think that something made you cry from here, well it just makes me sad. <P>I truly hope you don't stop posting about your situation as you don't need to isolate yourself in this. I read this thread and I don't think anybody meant to hurt your feelings. What I do think is that it is much easier to tell someone else what they should *definitely* do, when you aren't in their situation. It's not out of a judgmental spirit. Really. It's kind of a way to stand up for yourself in telling someone else what they *ought* to do. I know because I did this last week. I posted that I would NO WAY consider taking my H back if he cheated again. Bravado bravado bravado. But, last night something happened to make me suspicious of him (unfounded, thank God) and I had to rethink that *great advice* I was giving.<P>Nothing wrong with telling us, "Hey! I didn't ask your advice about that! Back off!" But, we can't expect to talk about such hurtful, potentially explosive topics as adultery and failing marriages and never step on each other's toes. Hoping yours are feeling better. Love, DI

It is uncomfortable, but we learn the most from those who disagree with us. I don't revel in anyone else's pain, but I don't think it's bad that you're struggling right now with your next move. That internal conflict is the precursor to change. It's tremendous progress that you're reacting angrily to his request to get stuff from your home and the inconveniences his decisions have caused to your life. It tells me that you're reaching the end of your tolerance of his ongoing disrespect. GOOD!<P>There really isn't value in you or anyone else examining or judging what has been done thus far, but there is tremendous value in examining your go-forward alternatives. You are at a pivotal moment, which is why I'm writing to you.<P>Almost everyone who posts here has helpful intentions, whether or not they express themselves sensitively. You can gain alot from the collective learning of this incredible group of people by overlooking the occasionally gruff manner of delivery and focusing on the messages themselves.