ok i have a few updates, h was over here yesterday again, still flirting even walked in on me getting change and tried to touch me, i told him to not to start something that he couldn't finish. lol. anyway, he was looking for something that he left he along time ago and i wasn't sure where it was. he said something about the things that meant something to him was gone. i walked outside and he followed me apologizing saying that it wasn't me that he just has lost so much. then i started crying, we had a very long talk, i told him that i wanted my life back, that everthing that i wanted was gone. alot of other things but he said that he apologizes for touching me the way that he has been but he wanted to and it's taken everything he has to not swoop me up a run off with me, and that he misses me, and that he wants to come home but that he needed to get his **** together that it wasn't right for him to run to me, to her, to me, and then her again. he said that she is totally out of the picture so that we didn't have to worry about her. he hugged me so many times then he asked if he could kiss me and i told him that i would melt. then he said how about an eskimo kiss, i was still crying so he kissed my eyes, then was licking my nose to wipe the tears away. i was dieing inside. i was still crying and he said why are you crying, we are having a good talk something that we needed and that he felt good about it. i just told him that i'm a failure. he said no your not you have been put through so many test and that i had passed, i told him no i haven't cause i still don't have what i want. then i told him something that i was keeping to myself. i said i know it is wrong to feel the way i do but that i was jealous of the kids, and he said because they get to spend time with me and i told him yes. he said that he couldn't believe that he choose ow over his kids but he needed to establish a relationship with them again. we talked about so many that my mind is still clutter, but he felt he needed this time to figure him out but he had no right asking me to keep my life on hold. he also said that he change so much that in a month i might not even want him, i told him as i pointed to his heart that he was in there and that i did want him. we talked a little more then he had to go and he kissed me on the lips real quick and said ha i got one. i was up all night thinking cause i still really didn't know what was going to go on, just that i knew he does miss me and does what to come home. he told his brother that he is a fool for destroying his family. so this morning i called him and he sounded happy to hear from me and all i said is that i was thinking and the one thing that i meant to say was what he thought about us moving slow and dating, he said that we could do that, but he didn't want me to put my life on hold that he still felt that if i wanted to go out like i have been that he felt i didn't have to call him and that if he wanted to go have a couple of beers that he could. i said i understood that i wasn't going to stop going out and he said that he would like it and that we could go out like once a week or something like that. i don't kno i was very nervous asking him. h has been the one this whole time talking about not wanting to give me false hope and the kids will know that we would go out so i'm thinking maybe we need to do this to bring back the bond. and he didn't say anything about seeing other people just that he felt that i should still go out like i have been. what do you think i should do

please help, i need some advice, would this be a good thing or a bad thing?

If you are asking if you should date other people, then my advice is DON'T do it if you have any hope of saving your marriage. That could make your H feel justified in continuing to cheat. By all means, go out with female friends or in groups that do not break down into "couples", and have fun, but no dating, IMO. <P>If you are asking if you should date your H, that would be an excellent opportunity to Plan A him.

yes that is what i am asking if i should date my h?

i have another question with anyone who might have advice. is it normal for h to want to date first and go slow instead of moving back in? i know he needs to get his head straight but by what he said last night, read above, i do know that he wants to be with me. thanks for any help that you can give me

I don't know if it is normal but I think it is sweet. Wouldn't it give you both time to feel comfortable with each other again. Just my guess. good luck.

Dear HB,<P>If there is sincerity and truth in your H's words, work with it. My H said that at one point, then went with OW. Then came back and said more but some of the feelings were not as intense. As the time went on, each time H tried to come back it was not as intense. <P>If you want your H back (under the proper conditions) and his is willing work with you at his pace (if he needs to take it slow, he may be scared), then go for it. You are not breaking any laws here. Sounds like your H is trying to keep some decency or respect for you in this reconciliation process. <P>I think one of the important steps is to identify his true motives. If this is true, it is a good sign. I think more of us wish we had your situation.<P><BR>L.<BR>

yes i guess you are right, i guess i am just kinda of scared. it's been a tough year. i do know that the ow is out of the picture, she had lied to much to him and certain things she had done to him. he had to learn it on his own. i'm just worried that with us living apart he might run into someone else. he brother had told me last night that he still believes that i deserve someone better. that he does love me but wants to make sure that i don't miss out on something. he said that you can tell him that you do want him but he has to feel it. i just don't understand sometimes the way his mind works. i know that he does not want to hurt me again and he wants to be sure. he didn't want to move right back here and in a month still be unsure, which i can understand. he did say that he wanted to run right back here but that wouldn't be right. but it's really hard not having him here with me everyday, not hearing his voice. i don't want to push him cause i know that would be wrong but then i don't want to put a even greater distance between us. the talk we had the other day was a good one, he even said that he felt good about it. but i don't want to bug him with calling him and stuff or should i? he was sick last night so he didn't come over with his brother and my son wanted to go back with them so i let him. maybe spending alot of time with the kids might trigger something in him. i had a long talk last night with his mother and she said that he had once told him that he had a woman who he loved dearly at home with him but the she wasn't really there. i understand the distance that we had, long story. maybe he just wants to be sure. it just hurt cause i know he loves me and misses me and why isn't he here then.

ok one more update, i let my son go with his uncle, who is staying in the rv with h, to stay over night with h. just spoke with sherry, sister in law, who said that son had woke up h and h was like what are you doing here, then he got up, read my letter i wrote him, ate and went out. this was all in 45 min from son getting there. this is what i don't understand. he has a chance to spend the night with his son and he goes out, my son was hurt. he is going to a different dive bar, it's like a repeat offense. there is a friend there, i heard from sister in law, that's a bartender who is a female. just like the other one. i don't want to start reading to much into this but i'm getting scared. sherry said even if something does happen there's nothing there. i now that in the beginning he ran to bars so that he didn't have to think and didn't want to be alone, but he had his son there last night. i spoke with his mom and she doesn't understand it. he is still running away. should i be worry or not?

One thing you need to keep in mind.....he can say ANYTHING, but actions speak louder than words and give you the true picture of what's going on in his head.Do you like what his actions are telling you? I think there lies your answer.

when we talked the other night yes i did like his actions and i believed him, you know the eyes can tell everything. i just don't understand what last night was about, and part of me is scared.

I see his actions as contradictory. When you speak of the other night it seems that it may have been motivated by strong physical desires.He's been toying with you. We all know men can and will tell us what we want to hear when they are desiring physical satisfaction. I know I would feel disrespected if my fence sitting H tried to come on to me physically and tried to get his needs met without first really considering ME and recommitting to the marriage. I think there is the smell of manipulation here,especially in light of his actions last night. He's acting selfish and self-centered and above all he's not considering or caring about the pain his actions are causing his children. He did what he wanted despite the fact that his child was with him and needed to spend time with him. That's what I mean about actions speaking louder than words. Don't let him confuse you. Leave sex completely out of the picture and see how he behaves. Then you will see the real H and where he is in regards to his desire to recover the marriage.

i don't really think that the other night was a result of physical desire considering that he did walk in on me changing earlier, one time, then it was just flirting stuff cause the kids were around. now the day before there was a hell of alot more. maybe i'm stupid and you are right. maybe me and his family are just seeing things that aren't there. i'm going to take your advice. i went and got my son from over there. sister in law was watching him while h worked, the way i seen it is that he had his chance to spend sometime with his son and choosed to go out. and we will not be here this afternoon and i let her know that so that she could tell him that we are going 4 wheeling. let that burn his butt and also i am moving across country on the 23 cause i just can't do this anymore. so let him do the dating thing on his own, i have pushed many men away cause of my love for him. she told me that he kissed our son before he went to work while he was sleeping, ya bet that made him feel better. maybe he doesn't really want his family back like he says, maybe he was lieing to me about going slow and dating, lord knows that i saw it. i'm just tired, i hope everything works out for you guys, my prayers are with you even though it didn't do anything for me.<BR>take care.

hrtbroken,<BR>I agree with mthrrbard about noting whether actions and words are in alignment. <P>And the eyes do not tell everything, particularly with cheaters, who nearly without fail, must lie.<P>Prior to my H's affair, I used to kid him about his expression never allowing him to lie. During his affair he could look straight into my eyes, with the most sincere look on his face and in his tone...and blatantly lie his fool head off.<P>Kissing, affection, sex are not the kind of actions mthrrbard was talking about. She's talking about the fact he still wants to go out to bars, not tell you, not invite you along. He'd rather do that than show you he's trying new behaviors or to be with his son.<P>Should you be scared? Not necessarily, but you should have your eyes wide open. Be aware.<P>And, I'm a little confused...what night was he sick? The same night as he went to the bar? If so, sensible people don't go drinking when they are sick...but liars use any alibi to slip out of things they want to get out of.<P>One thing of background on me, my H left 7 times. It really does not help anything to rush back into a reconciliation, at least in my hard-learned opinion, waiting until expectations are expressed and agreed upon--the MB 4 rulles of successful marriage as a guideline--is a good thing.<P>If he screws around & hangs out at bars when he's telling you he wants you, then it wasn't at the point where it was going to work anyway. "Let me come home or I can't control myself" is not a good plan and generally doomed to failure, because without fail, someday you'll be not at home for some reason, or he'll be out of town. <P>I don't think separation is good for a marriage, but once it has happened rushing back together without settling some issues may not help as much as you would hope it would.<P>As for dating your H, as long as you are in Plan A...go for it <p>[This message has been edited by Lor (Lor) (edited March 01, 2001).]

i just post something and i don't know where it went. when we talk the other night and then discuss seeing eachother, he said that he also didn't want me to quit going out and doing things and didn't want me to feel like i needed to call for permission and that if he wanted to go out and have a few beers he wanted to be able. see when this all started it was only a couple of weeks into the a and he told me cause the guilt was getting to him. there was also the fact of me telling him what i did about 4yrs ago in the beginning of our relationship when we had broke up that put a wedge between us and pushed us farther, so yes part of me still trusts him. i'm not trying to defend him but i just don't know what to think. last night was wrong of him cause he should of spent the evening with our son since he is the one having a harder time with this situation. and believe me, i think if all he wanted was sex, he would. i was teasing him one time about just getting it to satisfied my needs and he was upset saying that he couldn't believe that i could just do that and send him out the door, that we don't just ---- we make love and that there was too many feelings there to just do that. so please help me.

just wanted to see if anyone ws out there and maybe new what is going through h heads and maybe what i should do?

ok one more update and right now i am mad as hell. spoke with a mutual friend of ours who told me that h brought this new friend over a friend of ours. this is another bartender like the other one at a dive bar, she has 5 kids oldest is 19, now remember h is 26, and sil told me that she looks older than her and talks trashy. so what is this about? he wants to date me and is hanging around her. i called him this morning, i haven't spoken to him in a couple of days, and asked if he was bringing me money for our kids, he said yes , cheerfully like he was glad to hear from me. said he was going to bring 200. he asked if that was good. i said that since he hasn't paid for 3wks that i was counting on all of that to pay my rent. so he said well then you need like 600 and i said ya. he said that he didn't have that much but he could probably give me 300. then he said that he wanted to take the kids saturday night somewhere, actually told me and then i told him that son was upset regarding other night. he said that he explain it to him, that if someone had called him and told him that he was coming, he said he had someone waiting on him, ya right. the i told him to leave the money in the mailbox, and he asked why, i said because, then he asked why agian, i said because then he said what are you mad at me again, i didn't say anything then i said bye an hung up on him before i would say something that i would regret. what is this about?is he just trying to sow his wild oats? these trashy woman, if he wants his family so bad what is he doing with someone else? and with someone 20 to 25 yrs older with 5 kids, what about his own? i need help before i explode

Hrtbroken,<BR>You didn't reply to my previous post, so I suspect you don't like what I am saying.<P>Your H is behaving like a classic betrayer, telling you, the wife, that he wants you, loves you, intends to come back to you AND also continues with affair-behavior, hanging out in bars, schmoozing other women, drinking. This is also known as "fence-sitting", "having your cake & eating it too", "limbo"...a lot of us have been there. It is a frustrating and draining time.<P>He doesn't have the money you and the kids need, but has enough to go drinking. His actions show that you are not his priority.<P>If you want him and this marriage, at this point you need to decide if you want to Plan A him, giving him time to work some of this out of his system and hopefully fully come to his senses. You may want to read the thread on Plan A discussion by Distressed as there is a lot of talk on dealing with spouses who are on the fence, as yours is.

Lor is right on the money! Hrtbroken, I don't know how much more you need to see to determine that he is not serious about recommitting to the marriage right now. He's obviously not concerned about his kids emotionally or financially. He wants to keep you as his back up plan by offering you, HIS WIFE, "dates", all the while continuing to persue one woman after another and act irresponsibly leaving his visiting kids alone while he goes out to bars spending money he needs to give you to support them.<P>You have said in the past that you are doing Plan B. However your actions do not resemble Plan B at all. You are driving yourself crazy trying to microanalyze everything he says and does and trying to find bits of hope in very confusing behavior. GO BACK TO A STRICT PLAN B!. Read up on what Plan B is and how to do it! <P>You have mentioned his mom and sister and it sounds as though you have a good support system there. Enlist their help as your intermediaries and do not have any contact with H until he is ready to SHOW you he is willing to recommit to the marriage. When he needs to get the kids he picks them up at his mom's or his sister's and returns them there as well. Mom and sis relay ALL communication regarding anything that needs to be communicated.You need to have some stability in your life and it is obviously not going to come from him right now. Take control of your life and your kids and let him be until he's ready. All this ,of course, is only my humble, but strong opinion.Take it for what it's worth.

thanks for the reply i just posted another topic to lor if you would like to read it. please respond