hi i did response to your response, i don't know if you read it. i do agree with you, about him not paying the money an everything. i just don't understand him, i understand with him telling that it wouldn't be right for him to come home now until he is straight in his mind, but with the dating and seeing me, if he wanted that, to reconnect and redescover ourselve, what is he doing. a friend of mine said that i am reading to much into it that we only had the talk on tuesday and that i really don't know what this new girl is. she thought that i shouldn't of called him this morning and tell him what i did. that i need to keep up the communication or i will loose him to someone else, that telling him to leave the money in the mailbox was wrong snd now he thinks that i am mad at him. that he is probably thinking things over and he did agree with dating eachother. i did do the plan a and was on the plan b when ow put him in jail and he finally realize that he screwed up. so do i go back to plan a and do the dating and keep my mouth shut about knowing what i know? i just keep hearing what he is telling other people, like he destroyed his family for nothing and he can't believe he left his family for her? i'm caught, do i keep being nice to him? do i let him know and ask if she is his new girlfriend? or do i not speak to him at all and move across country, let him see what it really be like without us. i'm sorry i don't want to sound like a fool, but i do believe everything he said the other night, and he did tell me that he felt if he wanted to go have a couple of beers that he wanted to do that. like i said, he's the one and came and told me about the affair after they only slept with eachother a couple of times, so yes i do have some trust still there, i just don't want to loose him to someone else. part thinks if he has something going on with this new one, it won't last cause it's almost the same type of person as before. come on she's a bartender too but with 5 kids and almost old enough to be his mother. please help<p>[This message has been edited by hrtbroken (edited March 02, 2001).]

By continuing to go to bars with other women he is telling you he wants to connect and discover other women at the same time he wants to "reconnect and rediscover" you. You need to ask yourself if this is something you are willing to be a part of?? If you are that is your choice, if not, it seems that Plan A only serves to reward him for his bad behavior as you have been in this situation trying to be nice and supportive and show him what a good wife you can be for quite some time. That has had no effect on him. Continuing to do more of the same is going to get you more of the same. If you feel strong enough to continue in this fashion then by all means continue to Plan A. However,it sounds as though you are falling apart and need some stability back in your life, for YOU and your kids.Only you have the power to control your life. Have you sought any professional help in this situation? Friends are often not the best source of advise for they are too close to the situation and have a difficult time being objective. <P>Like both Lor and I said before, his actions don't match up with his words. It doesn't matter what he says to other people about screwing up and losing his family if he is not willing to DO anything to fix it. Talk is cheap. Sounds like he's just trying to get sympathy and understanding from others and is just fine and dandy going about indulging himself however he sees fit, without any care or concern for you,not even to give you the money his kids need to have a roof over their heads and food on their table.<P>Once again,my opinion only, but I'd have a standing arrangement that he gives the money to his mom or his sister and keep him away from you and your house. So what if he thinks you are mad at him! I think you are a little more than mad at this point and rightfully so. Your friend advises to keep up the communication or lose him to someone else?????? It sounds, by his actions that he's already gone. The communications you are having with him only serve to confuse you and make you miserable and offer no concrete plan to reconstruct the marriage and no indication that he is willing to recommit at this point.You can continue to believe everything he said the other night or you can look at what he does and believe that.Why would you want to date him when he continues to date others?

I don't know if you got my response to your last post. But here I go again. Do you believe everything you hear? He is only telling you these things to keep a hold of you. He needs a crutch to hold on to and your it. He's going to keep doing what he is doing no matter what. He only is keeping "good" with you and making you believe everything he says so that he has someone to run to and feel sorry for him when things happen. He is keeping your hopes up so that don't do away with him totaly. Your his crutch in times of need. And as long as you keep believe every little thing he says he's going to keep feeding it to you every single time. Like everyone has said "his actions speak louder then his words!"

survivor, i did reply to your post, i don't know if you have checked it. i'm just stupid and a fool. i quick, i'm done. they won, hope things go different for you.<BR>darleen

Hrtbroken,<BR>Indeed, on the other thread you posted again after I did, but you didn't answer the questions I raised in my post, that's what I meant, and probably what surviorthru means as well.<P>I doubt that it is the intention of any of us posting to you to make you feel stupid, foolish, and to break you down. We'd like you and your husband to get back together, with him as a truly loving, honest, faithful, good-daddy husband.<P>I know exactly how much I wanted to believe my H when he was saying, then doing what yours is. I wanted to believe him so much that I did believe him...and then I was horridly confused because I couldn't figure out why, if he loved me so much, why he couldn't live with me and treat me well...and just tell me the truth of where he was going and what (er, who) he was doing?<P>My confusion cleared when I realized he went back to the OW time and time again...and I realized that he truly wanted me AND he truly wanted to act like he was single. It's a juggling act that in my H's case lasted almost 2 years. There were times I was sure the word "Idiot" was stamped on my forehead in indelible ink.<P>I sometimes do reply to what is in a single thread, rather than go and find the background, and I had not read your "jail" thread. I didn't realize you had moved to Plan B. In that case, the answer is, you do not date your spouse. In Plan B you are not his best friend, you are not his lover, you are not his counselor. You co-parent, and that's about it. If he says and shows the OW(s) is/are out of his life, then you can consider dating. Plan B is how you protect your emotions.<P>My H & I have been back together now for 9 months, after almost 2 years of on and off separations. He truly changed and the way he proved it to me was no contact with any other woman, giving me email & voice mail passwords, going to counseling--alone until I agreed to go back, took his anti-depressants (he was clinically depressed through much of that previous time), he stopped going to bars without me, invited me everywhere outside of work that he went, I also can drop in at his office anytime, we call each other usually twice a day. Before he reached that turnaround, he needed his "space" and time with his "friends".<P>At one point I basically said he could spend the rest of his life going out with his friends, but none of those friends would be me.<P>There's no way I could force my H to do any of these things, and... I tried! But once he realized he waslosing/had lost me, and the oldest kid wasn't any too fond of him either, it finally sunk into him that wasn't really what he wanted either.<P>Your friend says you can lose your H...yeah, you can, you have. Take a long look at what he is right now. That is real. You mourn the man he was, but that isn't who he is right now. Do you really mind losing a wayward spouse, a liar, a drinker, a responsibility slacker? You have good reason to be mad, and by God, he should not expect you to be anything but mad as a hatter. It is to your credit that he still feels your love more than your anger--and I'm not saying let him have it, that would be a love buster, but you need to realize at some point that you are angry...you're a little too scared for that knowledge or emotion to be at the top, but check the recovery board threads, anger pops up regularly as a topic.<P>And, lastly, just because your H is this way now, is not an indication it is forever. My H came to his senses, it took a long time and we got to the brink of divorce, but he is now a good husband and a wiser, stronger person, both his actions and words say that he loves me. Every now and then we both screw up, but for the majority of the time, our actions and words are consistant. It becomes very confusing when they are not and I believe that at least some of your at-wit's-end feelings are exactly these contradictory, confusing messages you H is giving you. <P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

well the one thing that i do know is that the ow is out of the picture, i know that for a fact but he's going to new bars and has met a FRIEND, just a friend he says, who's a bartender like the last one, real winners, and what my freind and sil, and bil, and mil say, he hasn't talked about her and mil didn't know anything about her and that i have a bigger bond with him then she does right now and that i really don't know what is going on. but you know i'm a fool. they think i need to keep the comunication up and get things back slower that way. but i can't handle him seeing me and other woman but we didn't talk about that. so i don't know what to do. i feel like giving him any pictures i have of him along with the chain that he had given me for chrismas, he snuck it to me behind ow back, in his face. also, when we went to get his stuff out of ow car on tues night, the first thing he told bil to get was the his wedding band he had hidden in the car cause it meant a great deal to him, ya his bil had to tell me that. i didn't think he still had it, i had to pawn mine and i lost it. so it's things like that that is bothering me.

lor, i've been waiting to hear from you. i didnt' hear from h yesterday since i called him about the money in the morning, about dropping it by in my mailbox yesterday, it did not happen. my mom watched the kids last night and i went to a mutual friends house to talk and vent. my husband who is h friend, was mad about him leaving son to go out the other night and said that he was done, that he doesn't even give me money and all that sort of thing. no wonder why h doesn't go around them or any of his friends and family cause he knows he is doing wrong. i do know him and i do believe that he is thinking all of this through. and the one thing that is really bothering me, me and h's friends wife discuss this, is the dating thing. he also told everyone that he didn't want to give any false hope and that is a big one, and friend said that maybe he wants to reconnect with you and wants to do it this way. and we also talk about him lying, if what he told me the other night if it was all a lie. i really don't think so , he has this thing of wanting me to look him in the eyes when we have a heart to heart and when i don't he lifts my head, when he did lie to me he would never look me in the eyes, that's why i feel his feelings are true. i don't know what to believe, and the worse part he really doesn't know what i was mad at yesterday, probably figures it was about the money and him only given me 300 instead of 600. i don't know<BR> <P><BR>

ok tell me you told me so. didn't hear anything friday, we played phone tag all day saturday. h was taking kids to some monster show but told me that he was just taking the 2 boys, left him a vm telling him he needeed to take all 4. he called daughter around 5 and said bil was coming to pick them up. called him back to see what time they would be home and who they were taking. said they would be taking all 4 asked how he was going to fit all in truck said that karen was going, told him that i didn't think it was a good idea for him to be bringing ow in and out of my kids life. told me to have his kids ready. so hung up and bil got here he thought that i had known about it for a couple of days, i let them go only because the kids where ready and knew that they were going. so me and bil had a DISCUSSION. he had the nerve to tell me that these women don't mean a thing and that if he wanted to ---- this one and that one and bring different women into there lifew it shouldn't matter cause he loved those kids and that they loved him...bull****. he's the only one who sees it that way. he tried to grab me and i hit him...wished it was someone else. he talked about alot of bull**** then had the nerve to tell me that he wasn't going to tell me but h told him that he loved me to death and bil said if you love her go back and fix what was wrong and make it right said that she is still there and loves you, his response: he could never make it up to me and the kids what he did, he destroyed our family and everytime he would come look at me it will remind him of how he hurt me and how could not make it up to us, ya right. i looked at bil straight in the eyes and told him that he is a lyer and for him to tell him to stay the hell away from me, don't call me, do not step foot at my house, he new then not to say a word to me and he stop trying to defend him. i ripped the necklace that he gave me for christmas off and told him to tell him to shove it up his [censored] and that it didn't mean a damn. he thinks that we will get back together and i said that i didn't want him back. and then i called and left a vm on h phone telling basically the same thing i said to rick. he tried calling 3 different times and i didn't answer. bil was suppose to bring the kids home with him but only brought 2 and said h had the other 2 which i was very piss, ya with ow and her kids. then he had the nerve to drop them off in front of my house with her. that's ok cause when he left he got pulled over and went to jail and didn't get out till 7:30 last night, that's what he gets. he only met this girl last weekend, slept with her, she's the same trash as the other one, they bring her kids to a bar where they can get into so they can come, very nice. she's 15yrs older than him. they getter!!!! i am so pissed right now. so what is it that i do now? runaway?

Hrtbroken,<BR>My weekend was too busy for my to have computer time.<P>I advise you to go to Plan B. I doubt that dating him while he's doing this 2nd OW is a good thing for you. He's a jerk right now. Put him on his own to get himself back together. Plan B means he won't be yanking your chain and getting you angry. See a lawyer and determine if there is any way that you can legally set up visitation so that no OW is present.<P>You don't say why he was put in jail, but if it was DUI, and he had just dropped off the kids, then you may have legal recourse for him not to have unsupervised visitation. <P>This man has been in jail twice recently, whatever the cause, it was enough for the police to think he *should* be jailed. I think you need to look after yourself AND YOUR KIDS legally.<P>This isn't just about dating, this is about personal safety for you and your kids.

he was arrested for driving with a suspended liscense. if he wants to take me to court regarding vistation i have enough amunition on him to where he will loose so i know he will not push the issue. don't worry, i've learn the hard way, it's done. his bother actually had the nerve to ask me to wait 2wks before i decided to move to work on h. said he knows where he wants to be, i think i have waited enough and it's time for all the hurt and pain to stop. i know that i am going into my shell now, but it is now time for the kids to try and be happy. i am through with men and anything to do with them. it's funny how one person can do this to you. but i guess that is life. just want to know what i did so wrong to deserve this. take care

Hrtbroken,<BR>You didn't and do not deserve the actions, betrayal, lies and hurt of your H's affair. I repeat, you do not deserve this.<P>Unfortunately, you still have to play the cards you've now been dealt.<P>I strongly advise seeking counseling. I do not know how I would have made it through without my counselor, and once my H joined me, I don't think he thinks he could have made it without the counselor. <P>These MB boards have also been a lifesaver...but just as you've found, sometimes there aren't always people on the board who feel they can advise, the tougher the situation, the tougher it is to respond. I know it is not that people don't care care, sometimes a situation is too close to their own pain. Or the reader is wordless in the face of the poster's pain.<P>You can heal, but it does take time.

i do appreciate your responses to my post. i just had to face things i guess i new. it's hard when people, his family members and friends and himself, tell me things that he has said to show that he does care and want me back. all the lies....i can't hang on no more, i know that it has only been a yr but it seems like a lifetime. i don't talk to anyone except here so this past weekend i had anger, and tears and they are still coming. the way i feel is that i have lost and he has won. and thank you agian.

hrtbroken<P>You need to find a real live person to talk to also. Someone to love you and support you during this awful time. Either way. Pastor, Counselor, Support Group.<P>He doesn't Win. He actually loses only he doesn't know it. You need to remind yourself of that, He will be the big loser in the long run. You have gained alot from this experience (good and bad). <P>I know how utterly painful this is because I too am living with this. Sometimes I wish he was dead. (not really but yes). <P>Hopelessmom

hrtbroken,<P>I have read many of your posts and I really feel for you. Yes it sounds as if your H wants to play single but still have the "option" of being a H and father, neither of which he is being right now! I know how hard this is but PLEASE for your kid's sake plan B! When my H was pulling his single life craze I told him in no uncertain terms that our children WOULD NOT be involved. I would NEVER ever ever allow my children around OW, over my dead body. I also had him agree that if we got divorced that the children would NEVER be around any, I mean any, OW without my written permission, and 5 counseler visits with myself, my H and OW. If he violated this agreement he would only get supervised visitation. I checked with my lawyer and found legal ground for this. Have you consulted anyone? <BR>How horrible that not only has this man wrecked his family but he is dragging his children into this underworld of C@#P , by having pretend little fun outings with the new chick of the month. I know it just stinks having someone you loved and trusted act this way. Your H is acting like he is 12 yrs old and has shown that he is too immature to handle being a parent! I say enough is enough get those kids out of there! I hope you get some help or having a loving friend or family to help you. If you need a friend please e-mail me joys01@msn.com. I am sorry, I have been there and I know how much it hurts and stinks. Stay strong!<P><BR>joyful