Thank you in advance for taking the time to absorb this as it is pretty deep. I'm really looking for some guidance or a simple sanity check. Thanks.<P>I asked my H for a formal separation today. He has been living elsewhere (no contact with OW) for a month and the whole situation is just driving me nuts.<P>Last week I wrote him my forgiveness letter and put it in his car with a long stemmed rose, signed with love. In it I forgave him for being frail, for being human and for not having the knowledge or power to understand himself, me, or our marriage. I then cried for hours and ultimately began to feel better.<P>Then we had a coffee date to talk. This conversation along with five months of hearing the same things and some things he told to the counselor all brought me to a sense of what I knew was right to do (at the time and today, anyway). Here is what he has made me believe about us:<P>- That he never had "overwhelming feelings of romantic love" for me that he had for OW or for other girlfriends<BR>- That he has not been motivated to do for me as a result of said feelings (when I asked him why the OW got all the good stuff that I have been asking for for so many years - walks on the beach, orchids, picnics, poems (he has not in 13 years EVER written a poem for me)<BR>- He never had to pursue me and that contributes to the problem. I was always the one pursuing because I WAS madly in love with him<BR>- That during a pre-marital affair that lasted only a couple of month, or so I was told, that he was chosing between me and her. This was never revealed to me before, I was told it was just a fling. Luck me, I won <BR>- He recently questioned whether I got pregnant on purpose (I did not and would not) in order to trap him.<P>I have also had several observations lately:<P>- That he has for years used words like insecure and jealous to describe me when angry with me, but that HE is the one who has fueled these emotions by not giving me affection and attention. My counselors believes that I have been neglected. Then he used these "traits" against me to disguise his A. This is probably the cruelest thing.<BR>- That I have not been #1 to him in this relationship. I do not feel protected. Other things and other people have always come before me (not when it REALLY mattered, like when my grandfather died, but on a daily type of basis)<BR>- That he has just not seemed interested in our relationship in a number of years. I do all the planning for vacations, household projects, getting the cars fixed, outings, paying all the bills. What does he contribute? His pretty face? Some good sex? He hasn't made a habit of acknowledging mothers day!! <P>All of these things lead me to believe that the right thing to do was to ask for a formal separation so we can have some real space for a while. I only want him back if he comes back because he WANTS me and LOVES me, not out of a sense of obligation or of "caring" because those are not enought to get over this hump with. I need to be loved like I have never been loved before. I need to be protected, cherished. I need someone who is interested in me and in spending time and making time for me. I need to be #1 above all else in his life. I just don't believe my H can do these things.<P>So, tell me what I am missing here. Am I nuts? Am I going down a road that can't be reversed? Is this just the beginning of the end? Do you see what is worth saving?<P>Love to you all out there, -LL<P>[This message has been edited by LearningLife (edited March 11, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by LearningLife (edited March 11, 2001).]

Dear LL,<P>First of all big hugs. Hope you are feeling okay today.<P>Secondly, what a great thing you just did for yourself!!! I wish I was strong enough to do the same thing as well. I hope someday soon to be there. Reading posts from yourself, Burnedspouse and Orchid have really given me a lot of power back that I had given up in the struggle to keep my own marriage together. I was willing to make sacrifices for him but he was not willing to make any changes as that would be admitting fault. Recently he has been busy proving to himself that once again the A was justified because he wasn't happy in our marriage and that OW may have been the one for him (his soulmate). <P>LL so many things you said were true about not being number 1. People and things coming before you and not really participating in the growth of the relationship letting me plan all vacations and pay bills do all house and yard work etc.....<P>I want someone who will cherish and RESPECT me and be a partner in a relationship that is not afraid to grow and change. I want nothing more than to save my marraige but it will take some significant effort on the part of my husband and right now I don't think that he is not willing to do that. He has never been one to admit that he was wrong it is always someone else.<P>Thanks Again LearningLife, Burnedspouse and Orchid. I feel stronger today because of you guys!

Mar. 11, 2001<P>What is it with this "soulmate" business. Do they forget that once you and he were soulmates? YES! <BR>" overwhelming…romantic love", Not said, but that is the gist. Selective memory on their part.<P>LL, I also told my husband the similar to why the OW and not me. "I you would have expended the same amount of energy on our relationship that you are in this A, then we would not be in this situation. If you had given me al the "warm fuzzies" that you give her, I would have responded in kind. "<P>Guess this is the idea for Plan A. H may or not may have responded to this type of action years ago, but then I always felt rejected and could not risk new rejections. Perhaps, he was feeling the same when he made certain overtures and I was still in a rejected state. Insecure? Yes I was and am, but fighting to regain my self esteem and confidence. <P>Don't know whether throwing him out because he refused to stop contact with OW was the best idea. He did't want to go because "we still get along". 6 weeks later - he seems quite comfortable with it. His A is going stronger than ever after his weekend vacation with OW. Via the grapevine, "it was wonderful, we are so compatible."<P>On these posts I have often heard to take it by babysteps, and I have come to believe they are right. So I may revert back to establishing a renewed friendship ( which he wants, to make him feel better I assume.) Maybe, when he is with her he will remember what he left was not a miserable, unhappy wife, but a wonderful person who has and is always there for him. AND, maybe I can rebuild myself by not being consumed with anger and resentment … but seeing myself as a wonderful person who has given her all for the love of my husband. It may be a healing process. He will have doubts ( after the bud falls from the rose) and may regret that he did not try harder … He will have only himself to blame.<P>Went to church today … It was all about how love works. It is the giver in us that must always be at work. In that way we are doing what is right … and love never fails.<P>God, help me. I don't know if I have the strength to overcome my "taker".<P>Much love to you all.<P>PS: My story reposted by Orchid on 3/9 as "for whatami"<BR>

I am having second thoughs about my actions today. Can someone with some experience please offer advice...am I making a mistake by not putting forth more effort myself? I am just so tired and my actions have no impact and sometimes I just have nothing positive to give so I give nothing. This separation is an attempt to protect myself from being hurt by him any more. I worry not so much for me, but for my family...my kids love and need their dad and I feel like I am the one to blame now for ending this situation. It is also confusing me that my mom and dad both think I am doing the right thing by separating. Are they seeing something even more than I am? <P>HopelessinAZ, thank you for letting me know that some of my other posts have uplifted you. I'm glad to know that somehow I have been able to contribute to this board that I am trying to take so much from. You made me feel valuable. Thank you also for the hug.<P>-LL

LL-<P>Just me again and I have no experience to offer but feel so much the same way that you do. I at times want him out to try and get over all this great pain I feel. But letting go is the last thing I want. <P>I read a book "When The One You Love Wants To Leave" It is about separating and how it may be the only way to ultimatly save your marriage. (ie give them what they think they want and let them see how they like it). I struggle with this daily. My husbands total lack of communication on anything to do with our relationship leaves me at a loss. I have no idea what he is thinking planning etc. Makes me angry as this leaves him in complete control. But I don't want to push him into anything he could then come back and blame me for. The destruction of our marriage will lie totally on his shoulders. I am not begging him to stay neither am I pushing him out at this time. If he does ultimatly decide to stay he will need to do some real self examinations as I will not accept the man he has become.<P>Stay strong!!! You will be the winner in this situation either way.

Dear LL,<P>I have read your posts and feel we have traveled down the same path. My H and yours could be 'brothers', they have both said and done many of the same things. You know what, even though those are the words they are mouthing, when push comes to shove they do not understand what they are saying. It may take a while for them to come to that realization but it is too obvious. While still in the fog, there is a lot of justification on their part to continue in their course. Don't take too much of what they say personally. When they come back to reality and then say hurtful things, then it is the time to take a real look at what you have in front of you.<P>I have asked H, if you really were 'never in love with me', then why do you keep trying to come back? I have noticed that when commitment is asked (by both myself or OW), H backs off and goes in the other direction. So the waffling continues. See if we really were as bad as they are making us out to be, it would be easy to leave and it would be easier for us to let go. Hmmmmm another way to view that pile of manure. Negative viewpoint: It is just a pile of .... Postive viewpoint: With all this manure, there must a horse around here somewhere!!!<P>The OW's of this world are only more than happy to stroke their egos and tell them what a bad marriage the WS's have and how bad their wives have been to them. I actually hear OW tell that to my H last 2 weeks ago. She desparately needed to make me look bad so that she could keep her 'claws' in H. OW claimed 'truth is pure' while telling him that OW loved him from the bottom of her heart, when just 2 weeks before that she threatened to go off and spend a weekend with another male friend if H did not come back to her. Real love? From the bottom of what? Disregard the fact that you have done and been doing everything you outlined above. H still felt sorry for OW. Disgusting to me but very real to H. I needed to not be so vocal in my opinion. That was hard. <P>My H just said again today, that my efforts to keep our marriage an option (mind you not as is but as it should be) is what is making it difficult for him to throw it away with a divorce. Divorce is the direction he is currently seeking but he keeps asking me (everyday for the past 3 days) am I sure we should divorce? Why does he keep asking?<BR>Because he can not justify the divorce. <P>I too have been the one carrying the brunt of this family, emotionally, financially, etc. Makes me wonder at times, why am I trying to hold onto this man? The simple answer is that I do love him and care that he gets well again. There are good things about his character and he can be contributing member to his family. How to get him to this state of mind and body? Much of that is up to him. I can only there for support. How much longer can I hold this end up? That is the question in play at the momment. I have been in this nightmare for since Nov 2000. Not long for some but very long for me. <P>For you, the path you take may be similar or better, depending on where your H takes you. This is not a course we can easily control the destination. Like all the others, you are in my thoughts and I pray that we all survive this roller coaster ride. We will because we are not in the fog. <P>Take Care and remember we are all here for you.<BR>L.<P>PS I like your user name. It fits all of us. What a lesson we are being taught.<P>

The feeling you have expressed sound so familiar.... I asked for a formal separation when I was totally exhausted. I did regret it after I moved out, the house went on the market, etc. Now that we are back together after a year's plus separation, I think back on it and wished I had stayed and given it some more time. However, each situation is different and you know your limits. <P>Missed something before ... you said he is already living elsewhere. By all means I would get a formal separation agreement. Just because its signed doesn't mean you can't still work on the marriage. You need to protect yourself financially and legally.<p>[This message has been edited by Janie (edited March 12, 2001).]