I had a friend call Ow husband to see if she was home this week while my H was on a vacation. His story of who he was going with just sounded a little fishy to me and my lie radar was turned on. so guess what? She is out of town!<P>So after a week of seeing me, she sucked him right back into the affair and they deceided to go on a little trip. That really sucks. I dont know how to go on any more. what is the point of fighting her when he has appaerntly made his choice already? <P>I want to call her H so bad, maybe it doenst matter any more if I make things worse with my H and I. Things are not good anyway. I must have been in that fog myself to think he would want to come back to me. <P>Lora

I am so, so sorry. Please feel my big hug being sent your way.<BR>-LL

Lora, I answered your e-mail. I am so sorry. I know it's trite to say I feel your pain, but since I'm going through a similar situation, I really do. Didn't Jenn Harley tell you it was ok to call OW's H? If so, why not? When I did the thing with the lawyer that threw a big mirror up in front of H's face he kicked my door in but then came, briefly, to his senses. Having to face the consequences of his behavior isn't necessarily a bad thing. There was a thread yesterday, maybe still active, about telling OP's spouse. Seemed like nobody wanted to do it, but those who'd been told by their WS's OP's spouse were very glad to have been told. Maybe he knows more than you think and feels the same way about not telling you. How could an A have gone on between his W and your H for 2 years without him having a clue? Do what you feel is right.

Hi Lora,<P>Your H. just isn't ready to end affair, unfortunately.<P>This is hard for me also to grasp--the ambivalence. <P>Harleys and other books say that whatever keeps them attracted to each other is not deep and is very shallow--no depth like history you two shared.<P>Time and patience and long suffering. It may or not pay off for me or for you, but I will hang in there even if a d. knocks me down further. I will continue with sending my signals of "its safe to come back with no love busters coming from me"--EVEN IN LIGHT OF CONDITIONS OF INFIDELITY AND WAFFLING. LIKE SO MANY ON FORUM SAY--PREMATURE MOVES ARE USUALLY WEAK. <P>THINKING OF YOU. DON'T GIVE UP. ELO

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

LL, Thanks for the hug. I need it.<P>Letstry,<BR>I dont know what to do about her H. I wish he would call me. I called Jennifer to try and make an appointment with her and will try and follow her advice if I dont throw caution to the wind and call him first.<P>elo,<BR>Thanks, I know its not over yet. I guess I have not had the waffling so in my face before. In the past he didnt want me at all, so I was used to that. When he showed signs of wanting me I took it wrong I guess, as meaning he was ending it with her.<P>OOOO, <BR>So you are saying itwas a good thing you told? Was there fallout from your wife?<P>Lora<BR>

It took me a long time to realize that my husband's behavior around me was much more related to what was going on between him and the OW than it was to what I was doing. This is really a key realization and frankly, a big part of the reason the Harley's recommend Plan B.<P>You need to see a few definitive things before you have anything of value: 1) acknowledgment from your spouse of their role in this situation (i.e. some sense of remorse and concern for your feelings), 2) a commitment to ending things properly and definitively with the OP and following through on it, and 3) agreement to the extraordinary precautions necessary to rebuild trust (giving you their passwords, being accessible 100% of the time, sharing detailed schedule information, eliminating contact with the OP, etc.).<P>I can't tell you how much waffling I've interpretted from my own wayward's behavior and how much I've seen amongst the people on this board and those I've e-mailed. Save yourself some pain and hold off on celebrations until you see the things I've listed.<P>In the meantime, do something really special for yourself. You deserve it.

Lora - as dismal as it may seem, don't throw in the towel. The time you spent with him is in his memory and I'll bet you stack up better than OW. Think of this as another dip on the rollercoaster ride. PTC.<P>Dave

Lora,<P>Here is hoping that wherever they are it rains the whole time & that the OW LB's about everything, she whines the whole time, that your H has fond memories of trips that ya'll have taken, etc.<P>NOW go out this week & do nice things for yourself, try not to think about the lying.......Enjoy you.<P>YOu have hung on a very long time, you can get through this, YOU are a wonderful person. YOur H doesn't know what he is missing. BE STRONG

{{{{{Lora}}}}}<P>I am so sorry that this has happened. This is the way I think of it-she had to probably come up with the idea of going on a vacation to get your H back-they needed this "excitement" to maintain their "fantasy world". Let her become the nag....you did not have to go to such extravegent means for your h to contact you...just my opinion.....hang in there, because I think we are all hanging over the same cliff and I don't want tosee anyone let go!!!!!

Distressed,<BR>Very good advice. I though we were working our way up to those negotiations. He apparently was not on that page yet.<P>Dave,<BR>Well, I have settled down a little now, so I can be a little more objective. I will be patient a while longer.<P>Thanks Sing,<BR>As a matter of fact I am planing a trip to Mexico in 10 days and I will have a great time!<P>TRS,<BR>yes, I have to wonder if this is to reel him back in when he was starting to be distant. I only hope it is a stressful trip and they fight alot... <BR>Lora

Lora,<P> This is Beth keeping up with you,I am so sorry. <P> Love and Prayers,beth

Hi Lora. My sweet Lord, but your man is out of his mind. You are such a beautiful person, and as true as one could get. With adoration like that who needs it form another woman?<P>I am so sorry that this is happening to you. After all that waiting, you get a taste of the good stuff and then he snuffs it again. I can't stand it. <P>I agree that you might as well tell the ow's H. What the hell. It is not an LB now, H is being unfair to all of you, so is ow! Put her in the boiling oil for a while. It may relieve her H immensley to know it is not him! That his W is insane too!<P>Any way, take care, and please try to muddle through this. If you need to call you have my number. We can muddle together! <P>Beth

Dear Lora,<P>I am sorry to hear of the bad turn of events. If it helps, here is my story. H did take OW on a 3 day vacation. The weather was nice and the location was beautiful. I can tell where it was now - Yosemite. How sad, it used to be one of my favorite places. <P>Anyway, OW may have thought she was having a 'good time'. They stayed in an ok hotel (not the Ahawanee (not sure of the spelling - H couldn't afford that one!). H had a bad time. Too many memories of being their with his family. He said he even cried as they were walking around the park. All in all it was not the trip he thought it would be. He came back and broke up with her. Unfortunately, it did not last long, but then they broke up again and now it is on rocky ground. OW is getting a bit tired of his waffling also. <P>So my point is, if the weather and surrounding was nice maybe the company wasn't. It is a possibilty. You could be spoiling it by proxy. What a shame!!! <P>Ok, enough of my sarcasism. You take care of yourself. That time was a bit stressful for me, I had to force myself to keep busy but it worked. I actually prayed for rain but it think it turned out better than that. <P>Take Care,<P>L.

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

Hi Beth,<P>I know you are always lurking out there somewhere. <P>Burned spouse,<BR>Ya, I couldnt beleieve it either. How could he be so sweet to me one week and go on this trip 2 weks later. I think I liked him better when he was at lest consistant.<P>Orchid,<BR>Thank you for the lovely story. It gave me a little hope. After all, he has been trying to break up with her since Jan, so maybe they will not be able to recapture the magic of the begining of the relationship. And once my H is not happy, the world knows it. It makes me a little happy to picture her giving her all to make sure he is having a good time and him being withdrawn and not talking. <P>The thing that really bothers me is that if he didnt lie about the location he was going to, then he may be staying at a friend of his and his wifes house, and it really bothers me that he has introduced her to them and they are having her in their home.<P><BR>OOOO, Thanks for the reply, I think I will talk to Jennifer first, as the idea of talking to her H scares me. <BR>Lora<BR>

I'm starting to wonder if there's some kind of screwy (pardon the pun) bug going around up here in Washington. My H went back to the "troth" too. I'm so sorry to hear what happened, Lora!<P>I guess the only thing that I can say is to try and not put your hopes so high when dealing with a WS...that way if they do change and elude the fog, great! But if not, it's not as much of a letdown. He did make some progress with you - baby steps, but it was progress. But b/c he hasn't cut off contact with the OW yet, he will always regress.<P>Stay strong, make time for yourself, and take things one day at a time.