I have been counseling with Steve Harley for a few months now and have been doing as good a Plan A as I possibly can. The realtionship with my wife has now reached the separation standpoint. She moved out last week and we are sharing custody of our two daughters. One week at her place, one week with me. Fortunately, the two places are in the same town so it has no effect on the kids shooling. Tonight is the first night I have been without them <P>Steve has recommended that now would be a good time to move into Plan B. At the same time, I'm to inform the kids and immediate family of my wife's affair. Just inform them and to back off. Sort of like shaking a hornet's nest and running, Steve says.<P>I'm very apprehensive about this and the reaction my wife will have because I'm not giving her a chance to explain it to the kids. Has anyone else had experience in this area? What was the WS reaction?<P>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited March 11, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited March 11, 2001).]

i told my kids almost from the begining, my 9yr old is not stupid and she would hear things, not intentionally, but she would listen. anyway, my children were 3, 5, 1 and then 9, and they asked me questions and i told them the truth. i wasn't going to lie for him. then they asked him about his new girlfriend name trish, and ya he was pissed but they was nothing he could say about it. so they new daddy ranaway something they still say, meaning daddy ranaway from us, but like i say, they said to him you ran away to be with another women. they used to say things like we can take her daddy since she took ours. the sad thing about it is now they think we can take other peoples daddy's since our's was taking. anyway, they need to feel the shame and quilt, and i am the only one who has told them everything, he just walked out the door and left everything to me. hope this helps you

Depends on the ages of your children, but with Steve H. telling you to do so, I would do it.<P>It almost killed my H to tell our OS then almost 15 that he was having an A, but I left him no choice. Our religious beliefs just wouldn't handle the mom & dad don't love each other any more rot. My H had to tell our son after son heard us arguing, we never did much of it, & laughingly asked if we were getting a divorce, & I told him maybe then my H had to explain. Don't think my H will ever forgive me for that but our son was too smart for anything but the truth. Our YS just knows mommy & daddy didn't live together for while, & that they still don't sleep together but he turns 9 today, if/when we end this, I will tell him the truth. The truth hurts everyone but lies hurt more.<P>Good luck, prayers for you & your children.<BR>

I'm curious as to when you'd tell them everything, and when you'd just give them the "mom and dad have problems" story. The first counsellor I saw about this (at that time didn't know about A) just said to use the generic stuff, lay no blame. Steve Harley didn't say anything to me about telling them about an A. Mine are only 5 and almost 3, so maybe that is why. Anyone have insight? Sorry to bust in on this with no useful help, but it is an important topic. I'd love to burst the "official" story.

My daughters are 9 and 14. We gave them the "Mommy and Daddy have problems story" back at the beginning, when I also believed that. You see, the OP in my wife's life just happens to be a woman who is also my wife's boss and a close friend to my girls for several years.<P>I mean, this revelation of the affair is really going to blow everyone's mind. My wife, because she has interpreted my Plan A as showing her that I don't have the cahonies to do anything drastic about it. My kids, because my wife has continued to bring this OP in as a part of their life. <P>Steve was also able to talk to my wife as was another counselor. It has pretty much been determined that my wife is not gay and that this is mainly an emotional affair. I also firmly believe that this OP, though also married but with no kids, was the instigator in this affair and used her position and the fact that my wife confided in her about our problems for her own benefit. I am even investigating the possibilty of legal action against this OP. At the very least, I could cost her her job. But I don't want to do that both because its not in line with Plan A and it will also cost my wife her job. Although I do realize she will have to leave eventually.<p>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited March 11, 2001).]

AlwaysHopeful,<P>I've followed some of your posts in the past, and given that this is your first night without your children, my thoughts are with you. It is hard to start this shared custody (understatement).

Hi Always,<P>I recently posted my story about informing our 6 year old son. Children are people and should be treated with dignity and respect. They also know a lot more than they lead others to believe. <P>Your children will probably confide in the parent they are the closest with. I have always directed our son's questions about his father to his father. H did not like that at first but I have continued to inform him that his son is not in the dark about what is going on. Our 6 year old has done the following:<P>1. Asked many thought provoking questions about H.<BR>2. Said he was too embarressed to talk to H about his leaving his family.<BR>3. On his own, our son decided to write a letter to his dad<BR>and did it (4 pointed sentences - 2 questions & 2 statements). He put it in an envelope & I delivered it.<BR>Hit H real hard. <BR>4. Son even asked: "Why can't dad figure out that it is wrong for a father to leave his family, I know it's wrong - how come he doesn't?"<P>5. Latest question from son: "If dad is not coming back because he thinks he can not be a good husband and father, then how can he even marry someone eles? Because he can't even be a good husband? Dad used to be a good father for 6 years, why did he change to a bad father?" There were a couple more questions, but I think you can see where his little mind is going. <P>As of this evening, this is where it stands. H has been informed of these questions. H is still in the fog. Not much hope for H since he isn't moved by his own child's concern for his welfare. <P>Hope there is a better response with yours. <P>L.<BR>

AH,<P>As painful as it maybe your 14 yr will need the truth. They are too smart for anything else at this age.<P>I have never not had my boys, when my H & I lived apart, he was at our house every day. I had planned on them going to him at nights on the weekend but my OS refused to go & my YS only went 1 or 2 times. <P>I can't even begin to guess how tough this 1st wk will be for you. Do things you put off doing because you have the kids, me it would be read but go to do something fun.<P>Good LUck.

We told our oldest two children...boys...ages...14 and 16. They know about these things...and this was such a shock at our house...and we were a couple who never argued in front of the kids..and I never cried much except over a death..so they KNEW something BAD had happened. We HAD to tell them. The oldest took it the hardest as he adored his Daddy so much and was in such shock over him doing this. I offered to get both of them someone from church to talk with them and counsel with them..but they both said that was too embarassing. I told them they needed someone they could confide in besides family..who were all obviously too torn up to be of much help to their needs. The 16 YO finally said he had some close friends that lived in towns not near here and he would talk to some of them. THAT was magic for him! He had rounded up his support team! Children NEED support in this as well as we the wounded spouses! They have ALSO been betrayed by the wayward parent! I encourage you to tell older children...but to make sure they have someone JUST for them to vent to. My 14 year old was too embarassed he said to tell ANYONE (I thought this was so sad)...but my oldest son telling his friends...helped...as they also rallied around and supported my 14 YO as well.<P>Now...my 7 YOD...did not know about these kind of things yet. But she knew something was terribly wrong. She is very emotional and I was crying almost constantly the first few days. She kept asking me questions and I kept answering them as best as I could to a 7 YO. Finally I told my H about her questions and told him I felt he should be the one to have to deal with it since he caused it and not me. I told her Daddy would explain it to her..I asked her if she wanted me to be with her when he talked to her...or is she just wanted to be alone with him. She quickly said..."Oh, Mommy! I want you in there! I can tell Daddy has hurt you and I am afraid he may hurt me too!" That broke my heart!!!! So children are listening and know MUCH more than we realize. MY H talked to her (and it was good therapy for him to have to look into the innocent eyes of his 7 year old dauhter and tell her these things)....he told her he had been very bad...that he had done things that had hurt Mommy and hurt Mommy's feelings in the worst way. He told her that he had done Mommy so bad that even God would understand if Mommy left Daddy and never lived with him again. It was a very good talk he gave her and she seemed to accept it and has not asked hardly any questions since! When he later asked her if she understood all he had said..she said "yes sir!...I have a friend and he makes fun of me sometimes and that hurts my feelings too real bad!" oh to be innocent again!! ) <BR>But when she says her prayers at nights...she prays for me and her Daddy. That he will be good to me and that he will not be bad anymore. She also prays for the other woman sometimes that she will leave us alone and that she will be good. <P>Our other child is only 1...so no problems there. He only had to deal with the stress of Daddy not being there for several days when we left at first. And since we have come back home..he is overly clingy with his Daddy. So while he does not understand....he has suffered as well.<P>I think children should be told...as much as they are able to understand. And perhaps we can use this to teach them and prepare them to never do these type of things to their loved ones. Perhaps they can see the pain it causes the loved one..and the pain it causes the fornicator as well. They can see the ugly side of this and perhaps shield themselves from making the same mistake.<BR>Hope this helps. Pray about it and choose your words wisely. God will help you with this.<BR>my two cents..........

AH - I strongly recommend telling the whole truth. When we separated, my wife was denying the affair and she denies it to this day. So our explanation was the routine Mommy and Daddy are having problems - which I now regret. I should have insisted on the truth - even if she denied it. I've tried to make up for lost ground with my son by slowly telling him the truth, but is is reluctant to accept this because of the lies his Mom tells him.<P>WAT

I have no problem with telling my kids the truth. I'm actually looking forward to it and have been for quite some time. Up to now I have felt very guilty keeping the truth from them. Like I am a part of my wife's coverup. I'm more worried on how they will handle it emotionally, especially the nine year old. At fourteen, my oldest daughter will understand and probably already suspects anyway. This OP has been like an aunt to my youngest one who really looks up to her. She buys her things from time to time (the witch!). My youngest is really going to be an emotional mess with this. I am arranging for both girls to have immediate access to counseling if they need it.<P>The only other fear I have is that it might drive my wife further away and destroy everything I have set up with Plan A. But I have followed the Harley advice up to now and I'm not going to alter that.<P>I will keep you posted...

AH,<P>Don't second guess your children. It is a LB to make a disrespectful judgement. Yes, I know this is supposed to be about the spouse. But think a minute. I suspect that the children know or suspect more than you realize. In addition you know it will be difficult for them especially since it will indicate to them that you are ending the marriage.<P>You can tell them that you are not, but use it as a method to teach them that secrets and lies are not productive. I wouldn't paint W as a "bad guy" but she is doing something wrong.<P>Finally, you have heard from an expert Steve Harley. The rest of us are just amateurs. So I say follow his advice. As you recall "No Pain, No Gain".<P>Go for it and God Bless,<P>JL

My stbx did the "mommy and daddy are having problems" bit for a while. I finally had to call her on this. You see, IMHO, when she says we are "having" problems, this gives my son the false hope that when we don't have problems anymore, we will be a family again. She has stated that she has no intention of doing anything to make our marriage work. So I told her that we are not "having" problems, but that we "had" problems and her solution was to get a divorce. She needed to explain that to son. I don't know that she has, but I haven't gotten any questions from him in a couple of weeks.<P>I also believe that it is in the best interests of the children to tell them the truth as far as they can understand it. When asked by my son why mommy will not live with us, I told him that he needed to ask his moimmy, but in my opinion, she would rather see OM every day than she would see him. He asked her about this, and of course, she refuses to discuss it with him. She has just about lost him. Even at 7, he has no respect and does not trust her. Too bad that she can not see what she is doing to her relationship with him.

JL-<P>I'm not quite sure what you mean about second guessing my children. As I said before, I believe the oldest one is very close to figuring the whole thing out. Also, what do you mean about indicating to them that I am ending the marriage. Nothing could be further from the truth and I will be sure to let them know that. They already know that I did not want Mommy to move out and that I love her completely. I have never painted a disrespectful picture of her and won't do that even in revealing her affair to them.

Always Hopeful,<P>What I was trying to say in a very flippant way, was that you are worrying about how they react, with the implicit assumption that they won't figure it out. I apologize if I came across wrong.<P>I was really driving at the point that even your youngst knows something is up so they may not react as you expect them to do. Further, if you plan to divorce your W, then tell them that, but I was under the impression that you were still trying to salvage the marriage. If the latter is the case, then you are not ending the marriage. At worst your W is ending the marriage. Whatever, the current situation is tell them what it is, but try and ease their fears about the future.<P>You said you won't paint a disrespectful picture, then fine we understand each other.<P>That was all I was really trying to say.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

We have been advised both ways and have chosen not to tell the kids. They are older,23,18 and 19. Away at college, They saw stuff and pretty much know already. But my feeling is, since they "know" anyway, why should their father, who they love, humiliate himself to them? The A is over and has been for awhile and we are working to get past this.It's been 6 1/2 months since D Day. When is it really none of their business, the kids,I mean?

Wounded-<P>That situation would be entirely different from mine. Yours is in recovery, I'm trying to get there. As far as it being none of there business, it is very interesting that you should say that. That is EXACTLY the point of view my wife has on the subject. You see, I have brought up the subject about the family knowing the truth on a few occassions. My wife has stated that all anyone needed to know, including our daughters, is the "Daddy and Mommy are having problems" scenario. She talks to me about accepting the reality of how much she loves this OP, but at the same time believes that no one will ever find out about it. When she first informed me of the affair several months ago, she told me this OP didn't want even me to know the truth because the OP thought I would use the kids against my wife in some way. What a croc! The only thing the OP is worried about is herself and that the kids might get in her way!<P>I fully believe that the two of them are so far in the fog at this point that they don't know what reality even is. I'm hoping that the revelation to the kids, however hard it will be on them, will bring things crashing down so much that it may shake off some of this fog. We'll see...<P>JL-<P>Sorry. Didn't mean to make it sound like I was snapping at you. I appreciate your viewpoint . I'm just pretty apprehensive about the upcoming few days and am praying that with God's help everything will come out alright.<P>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited March 13, 2001).]<P>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited March 13, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited March 13, 2001).]

Hopeful ,You weren't snapping, were you?<P>And Yes, you are right, We are in different stages and let me tell you, in your situation, THE WHOLE WORLD would know. If he were not home, if he were with her, there would not be person I wouldn't tell. When we talked divorce, once or twice, I said I would divorce him for adultery and name her a co-respondant. And I would have, too, never hesitated. I'm still pissed her H doesn't know. <BR>But I am scared to tell him because we don't know what he will do. Not with her, neither I nor My H care what happens to her. But will the guy make death threats or what? My H let this wacko into our lives, I don't want to introduce another one.

AH,<P>No problem. This is a very dicy situation. But you know honesty will still prevail. People can heal from honesty, but it is hard to heal from the lies. I think you know that already.<P>As for the boss and your W, my guess is that your W is not her first experience with an employee or subordinate. I have no idea how your W will come out of this, but I am guessing not well. She will have the guilt of the affair and the stigma of her choice of lovers. It will be very difficult.<P>That is why most people, and certainly I am one, think that in complicated situations more than any other time simple honesty is the best. It is to hard to figure out how to finesse things so that no one gets hurt, but the situation is explained enough to satisfy some people and protect others.<P>Good luck and God Bless,<P>JL

JL-<P>I have absolutely no doubt that my wife is going to have severe problems coming out of this. From what I have read in the Harley books, that is pretty much to be expected. Another thing that I have a problem with with the Harley therory of Plan B is that it is designed to protect the BS from losing any more love for the WS. I can understand that, but won't it be replaced by the BS worrying how the WS is reacting to PLan B? I will also be very apprehensive how she will deal with the kids knowing and if she may do something drastic. I'm going to have the kids for at least 4 to 5 days after they are informed. I know my wife and I know there will be problems.