Hello all,<P>Being a member of this forum is useful and supportive for me.<P>Still, however, it is so hard to make decisions that I want to make but I want them to maximize the chances for reconciliation.<P>Affair 1 year old.<BR>H started d. 2x, stopped d. 2x<BR>Currently - no d. action.<BR>I am standing for my marriage and he knows this. <BR>REcently sent a Plan A-ish letter.<BR>He is still in very thick fog and lost deeeeeeeeeeeeep in the forest of passion. <P>What is your best advice (from experience, reading), to help me bring my H from deep in the passion quagmire, quicksand of the affair closer to the reality of life where his wife and 3 children are patiently waiting for him?<P>The $64,000 question, right?<P>

Hi elo,<P> I see from your posts you are from N.O....My daughter goes to Tulane!Did you survive Mardi Gras?<P> Anyway, for me the answer is Plan B. Plan A just about set me over the edge but Plan B was a relief . The key is to do it seriously, get bank accts lined up etc. and then follow through with the no contact. My H said seeing how life was going to be shocked him. Before that he waffled and sat on the fence.<P>We are in recovery for almost 2yrs....a very up and down 2yrs. but we are now doing really well. I have 4kids so Plan B can be done with kids. Have you talked to Steve H? He was very helpful......LU

Speaking from being a WS myself the best advice that I can give you is moving to a strong and hard Plan B. Please remember that your spouse will do what he is able to get away with. You have made it clear that you don't want a divorce and as far as he's concerned he can take his time deciding what he wants and you'll still be there for him. If he wants a divorce he needs to see exactly what is all involved with that. My attorney (who is a good friend) deals with strictly family law and deals with divorce on a daily basis. He said a lot of times it is one that wants a divorce and not the other. He said that the percentage is pretty good in regards to stopping the divorce once a temporary hearing is set up (if the one wanting the divorce is the one that ends up being the NCP and the child support payer). All of a sudden they are standing outside the home looking in. Visitation is "set up" and that is painful for them. In some states child support can be set so high that they can hardly support themselves and if spousal is added to that they are almost forced to live off of someone else just to keep up with their financial obligations. They find out very fast that the grass isn't greener. And, if through all of this you can still be polite but get on with your life it often makes the WS take a second look. Right now he has you chasing him and he's not finding that attractive. In the mind of a WS you look needy. Nobody finds a needy person attractive. The OW makes him work. Eventually she may tell him to choose and if he decides to stay with you she'll be fine but he had better now try and change his mind because "she'll" only give him one chance. Here is you, the weak one taking seconds with his heart, attention and time. Tell me what looks MORE attractive? Open his eyes to reality and you just might see a change. The begging, the crying...use your friends and family for that. Appear to be a woman that has had just about enough and I really think your chances of recovery in your marriage will improve. BUT, if he still wants the divorce you will find yourself a stronger person just from pretending that you are. It starts to be real, not pretend and that in itself will make you feel better. Hang in there, you CAN do it!

Plan B worked well for me to, though it's about preserving your love and focusing on yourself, not a manipulation to get your H back. There are no guarantees. There are people on this forum who advocate staying with a good Plan A. Have you read lostva's post in the notable post section?<P>I'm sorry for your pain. Plan B helped me detach somewhat, at least from the daily reminders of the A. Not to say it wasn't always on my mind, but I was able to function better and focus on myself. Antidepressants helped too!

elo,<P>talk to the Harley's & if on their advice go to Plan B.<P>I wish i had consulted them before I moved here with my H. <P>

Lu, BonnieSept, Trs, Sing,<BR>Thanks for replys.<P>I spoke to Dr. Harley on radio show on 2/26 and I had a counseling session with S. Harley on 3/2. I spoke to S. H. longer so he heard more in depth about my story.<P>Dr. Harley recommended Plan A for 3 weeks and into Plan B.<BR>S. Harley recommended Plan A for longer 2-3 months then into Plan B. <P>I explained main points:<BR>1. affair 1 year old.<BR>2. H started and stopped d. 2x.<BR>3. no present action on d.<BR>4. I will stand for my marriage.<BR>5. alcohol a major factor-ow is alcohol drug/abuser<BR>6. My husband does not appear to want to talk to me.<BR>7. Very little to no contact with kids.<BR>8. Ow holding real tight; even brought her 13 year old dtr. to live with her.(and he hardly sees our bea. 3 kids)<BR>9. financial devastation-foreclosure, bankruptcy-H doesn't <BR>seem to care at all.<BR>10. I am utterly exhausted; raising 3 children (16 year old boy, 11, 13 year old girls)<BR>11. I have a full time job as a teacher and a part-time job as a tutor to make ends meet.<BR>12. I filed for child support in Aug 00 when he stopped sending me money (like I was told would happen)<BR>13. He defied judgment until FEB 01 when he was told by agency to disclose employer or then would revoke his drivers license.<BR>14. I have received two checks for total of $600.<P>After affair started, H and ow were in an accident in his truck on a wet night both drunk; both hospitalized. I found out because of accident. He promised he would leave her alone, but the forces were greater than I could have imagined. She is a sly and shrewd person: she filed a bodily lawsuit against our auto ins. policy and got $25, 000...and they were off and running and the affair continues.<P>He left on 3/13/00, came back for 10 days, and left again on 3/30/00. Told me he had to be "TRUE TO HIMSELF" -THE <BR>ULTIMATE CRUEL SELF-INDULGENT AND SELFISH ACT A PERSON COULD COMMITT. <P>It has been one year-and I am still utterly devastated; I love my H and I hate what he has done to us all.<P>Yes, I still love him. I know that the road ahead is going to be long no matter what happens.<P>Well, I sent a Plan-Aish letter. (read it on plan A thread <BR>2/27/01). I am keeping my expectations VERY low. Since he doesn't even talk to me now, I expect divorce.<P>I have made efforts to communicate.<P>I don't know if I can go to Plan B. I read so many pros and cons of it. Trying to grasp a good handle on B to see if I can do it.<P>At this time, he doesn't even talk to me so what good will Plan B do. He will laugh in my face--<P>My only hope, which I am even afraid to link onto too tight, is that the affair will die a natural death. I know he has to be having financial problems--because we have financial problems. <P>Will it die a natural death like the experts say it will?<BR>Will it die a natural death before a divorce is final?<P>I am an emotional wreck. Harley's recommend anti-depressants if you go into B. Some of you have told me about the anti-depressants you are on or have tried.<P>One more main point: I told S. Harley about financial problems. He was very adamant about my calling MIL and asking her advice and suggestions about financial problems.<BR>I told harley I don't know if I can do it. <P>MIL wrote and told me H life is normal and mine is a mess.<BR>She doesn't know the truth, the whole truth and the only truths. She hears his tainted side of the story--surprised? of course not. \\<P>So that is why I hesitate to contact her. So sometimes, I wonder if counseling with Harleys is for me.<P>Well, I'll close. Thanks. replys appreciated. elo<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elo:<BR><B><BR>What is your best advice (from experience, reading), to help me bring my H from deep in the passion quagmire, quicksand of the affair closer to the reality of life where his wife and 3 children are patiently waiting for him?<P>The $64,000 question, right?<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Elo,<P>I tried to read up on some of your threads, but there are quite a few . My wife saw her OM for a few months after d-day by sneaking around, but her A died as he depleted his balance in her love bank, to use Harley terminology.<P>I don't know that you can bring him out of the "fog"--you just have to hope it happens. In the meanwhile you do as good a Plan A as you can and try to be an attractive alternative for him to return to when he comes to his senses. If he never does, then doing Plan A kills your love for him and you're more ready to move on if that time comes.<P>When you're close to losing all love for him it's time for Plan B. This preserves some love in case he does return, and prevents lovebusting by you when you've reached the end of your endurance.<P>Without more knowledge of your exact situation it's hard to speak to timeframes, but that's my understanding of the principles. I'm also a big advocate of reading the books and the Harley principles at the main web site.<P>The alcohol, if abused, is another complicating factor. Recovery may be difficult until it is addressed, as it is an addiction just like an affair. Possible bipolar is another complicating factor. A person in a manic state is almost impossible to reason with in my experience, but I'm not sure how seriously convinced you were of that.<P>I'd tend to go with S. Harley's advice, unless there's been a big change in your situation.<P>I'm not sure that Plan B is often effective without some months of a good Plan A. Again, you want to leave him with the memory of you being a strong, attractive alternative to return to if and when he comes to his senses.<P>Just my thoughts.<P>Best wishes,<P>Steve<p>[This message has been edited by StillHers (edited March 15, 2001).]

Dear Elo,<P>Originally posted by elo:<P>What is your best advice (from experience, reading), to help me bring my H from deep in the passion quagmire, quicksand of the affair closer to the reality of life where his wife and 3 children are patiently waiting for him?<BR>The $64,000 question, right?<P>Just a suggestion, you may want to look at the post on this General Questions II site entitled: What if WS thinks they are not in the fog? I have received some straight answers that is helping me see the need to adjust my 'giver's attitude' from turning into a destructive enabler's attitude. Can I be my own worse enemy in this healing process? Maybe. This was brought out to my attention in a straight and loving way. <P>Hope this helps. <P>L.<P><BR>

Hi Orchid,<P>Thanks for reply. I did read the post and the replys and I printed them out. I like to read through them and highlight comments and suggestions that I feel can help me.<P>Thanks for suggesting this to me.<P>I am following your story.<P>My children all wrote to my H several times in the first 3-4 months and he seldom acknowledged their letters-he did <BR>briefly mention that Nicole's letter really touched him-but he did not tell her directly-he mentioned it to me when we were communicating more late last year.<P>I have tried to keep the lines of communicating open-but to not avail. I am CONVINCED that the ow and alcohol keep him DISTRACTED FROM WHAT REALLY MATTERS IN LIFE--AND SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE IS DOING.<P>Will be back. elo