Give us a hand, eh? This is a little different, but should be quick and easy. <P>1.) If I am a single person and a friend for a significant time of a single person of the opposite sex, what are appropriate ways to behave when my friend marries? <BR>How should I treat my friend and the spouse?<P>2.) Same as above, except my newly married opposite sex friend and I have a party--type relationship, drinking, cruising, etc.<P>3.) Is it ever acceptible for a friend, male or female, of your spouse, male or female, to insist that their relationship specifically exclude you? (I would appreciate it if you could try this one on with the understanding that there is no past relationship, good or bad between you and the friend. You have basically simply married their friend.)<P>Does gender play into this? Does it matter if he spouse with the friend is the husband? the wife? If these are same sex friends? opposite sex friends? <P>Now, what would you really anticipate someone in this situation would actually do, not in a perfect world but in this one - any of them, friend, spouse, or friend/spouse?<P>Quick addition: do not assume there is an adultery issue here, okay?<P><p>[This message has been edited by dragantraces (edited March 14, 2001).]

Well, after going through a great deal of crap about this (with some other junk thrown in), including spending the better part of a week in my car, I thought I'd try you guys again.<P>When do you think it is proper/appropriate/whatever to put friends before your spouse? Please consider my post above.

Never put friends before a spouse.<BR>A spouse is suppose to be your other half--married and become one.<BR>If you are a friend--they marry--you become a friend of the spouse--a "family" friend--not an individual friend...<BR>A spouse and marriage come first before anything else..<BR>You are not a "FREIND" to anyone if you are not a friend with the spouse--<BR>relate that to an affair-which you are not--but if you are a true friend- and your friend has an affair--you would tell the spouse--if you didn't you are a friend to neither...Look at this as being one in marriage--What one knows (no secrets) the other should also know. When a friend marries you have no choice but to change your friendship--things can not be the same as when that person was single..It is different world, different set of rules of what is appropriate behavior in your friendship~nothing can be disrespectful to the spouse.<BR>Basically, Do you want to be a good friend-- or do you want to be a good "wife" and "mother", or good "husband" and "father"....Definition of a good friend changes in order to be the good "spouse" and "parent".<BR>There can not be a held in confidence with a friend--behind the spouses back.<BR>Also, whatever you discuss with a "friend" expect it to be discussed with the spouse--that is the territory- they are one person now--anything you tell one spouse is to be known by the other...If you hear a married friend say this is confidence--it is between you and them and their spouse-<BR>It is the responsibility of the spouses to know that if one spouse holds someone's confidence that the other spouse, also, holds that confidence.<BR>A friend would never become before a spouse--<BR>coming before a spouse is destroying a marriage.<BR>A friend would not be part of destroying a "friend's" marriage...That would not be a friend--but a down right enemy of the family...( this reply is just making sick...)

Deleted...<p>[This message has been edited by LostNco (edited April 14, 2001).]

And what if the friend tries to befriend the spouse and the spouse refuses to befriend the friend? even to the point of being rude to them..even if the friend is same sex??

Kind of confused in that last statement...<BR>If the spouse who married your friend is rude to you...basically, could be a feeling of being threatened. However, it may also, just be a point of view.<P>My wedding for example...I was very busy, was being rushed by photographer to quickly grab my H to cut the cake--major time line crunch..I go to grab him and he wants me to meet his friend "female" with his male friend I had met before..She I had not. But never felt comfortable with their friendship--it crossed boundaries, very disrespectful...so a friendship could never be between her and I...already destroyed before it could happen.<BR>So, anyway, between everything I had to do...i said nice to meet you and said we have to go cut the cake...<BR>Well, she compained to my H later on that I snubbed her and my h came back to me to say she felt this way and that...I was like to bad. He basically says that he couldn't believe I did that...disrespects me by telling her that. This should have been a flag for me...but I ignored the fact my h was taking her feelings over mine. i didn't snub her, I didn't even get to say Hi to half my family because of circumstance-(-infant child with DS I had to care for while getting married)<P>Anyway, the point was that her feelings shouldn't have come over mine....I didn't snub her, but she thought I did.<BR>The fact that she felt she could complain to my H about me reveals that their friendship was above our marriage and our friendship--which I was with my H before he ever met her.<BR>Basically, if the spouse can't be your friend, you may just have to let the friend go...a true friend wouldn't be a threat to a marriage or cause trouble between spouses. That is the best I can do..If you want the friend to be happy, the spouse has to be happy....A marriage comes first, Friends come below that...usually below more--like children and other things...<P>Don't know if this is helping with your dilemma. <BR>Despite what many people think members of the opposite sex can't really be friends...why...Look at this board...all affairs begin by being friends first...noone knows who that person can be, if that friendship could be the one that could result in an affair...Hardly anyone thinks they will have an affair or be the type of person that can....<BR>My H knows that now...after my 8 freaking years of telling him the rules of opposite sex friendships....His behavior leads to an affair...didn't believe me and oh--has an affair...now he is changing his belief system and his relationships. It is just to complicated...If you can't live without being friends without the opposite sex-don't get married..you can be friends with whomever you want to without worrying about someone else's feelings.. Otherwise, you need to live in a marriage where you respect and honor another person..Those two words take a lot of work to accomplish.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by crete (edited April 04, 2001).]

[/b]1.) If I am a single person and a friend for a significant time of a single person of the opposite sex, what are appropriate ways to behave when my friend marries? <BR>How should I treat my friend and the spouse? [/b]<P>I'd say you and your spouse invite the friend and spouse to do some things together. Occasional lunches etc alone with the friend are OK in my book, but not continual activities alone, and spouses should be invited some of the time.<P><B>2.) Same as above, except my newly married opposite sex friend and I have a party--type relationship, drinking, cruising, etc.</B><P>Well, I think your relationship has to change its nature a bit, or be allowed to fall away. <P><B>3.) Is it ever acceptible for a friend, male or female, of your spouse, male or female, to insist that their relationship specifically exclude you? </B><P>No, it is not. There may be times you are not along, but for one to insist that the spouse be excluded would be quite inappropriate.<P>My 2 cents...<P>Kathi

Thanks for the replies. I do want to clarify that what I originally posted was to some extent hypothetical. I am not the "friend", I am married (6 years) to the guy who has a single female friend. She wants to come for a visit in May and see my husband and his 12 year old son, but specifically insists that I am not to be a part of her vacation. She claims to be a great lover of children, yet refuses to really acknowledge the existance of my 13 year old daughter, who is also my husband's biological daughter. (Yeah, it really is as confusing as it sounds.) The friend has met the son before, but never the daughter.<P>While my husband has had many affairs, that sincerely isn't my concern. It's the disrespect and arrogance of even considering visiting my husband and demanding that I be excluded. She can't seem to see any problem with it and insists that I have to be a real problem for my husband since obviously, in her little mind anyway, the only possible objection is that I don't trust him. (That is not the issue, and even if it were, he isn't trustworthy - and she knows it!)<P>Kathi~ If she were married it would be much less likely that this would be a problem. I suspect that her husband would have something to say about the appropriateness of spouse being left out. But she's not married. Her position was that Since I wouldn't include her if I were making holiday plans, why should she include me. My response was that she was correct. Since she has never been a friend of mine I wouldn't include her in my holiday plans. Unless I was planning to come visit her husband. <P>Crete~ You make exactly the points I tried to:<BR> 1.) No friend would ever consider such actions. Doing so exposes one as not a friend and as actually being an enemy of the marriage. My counselor, who read the email exchanged in all this, goes so far as to say this girl is an enemy specifically to me.<BR> 2.) There is a great emotional betrayal for a spouse to have private/secret/confidential conversations with someone of the opposite sex. The spouse should be talking that way only with their spouse. The friend needs to find same sex friends or single opposite sex friends to speak to this way.<BR> 3.) It is the responsibilty of the spouse who has the friendship to make it clear that the friend is out of line. Not to blame his or her partner for putting a crimp in the friendship, but to set the 'friend' straight, in no uncertain terms, that what they are asking is beyond the pale and won't be considered. If the friendship can't include both partners to the marriage, ending the friendship wouldn't be causing the loss of much.<P>Thorned Rose~ In this instance she has never made any attempt to befriend me. She sends correspondence to my husband and virtually never mentions me. I send family Christmas cards out and include her, even sending her personal notes catching her up on things like my husband's health since I have been told she is a friend and I know he is a lousy correspondent. (The only time she's ever mentioned me was to berate him for the fact that he has to hear how he's doing from me. Really good friends, these two, eh?) In the course of the recent crap I invited her to come on up for her visit and to plan on spending with my husband... and the rest of his family, including me. She was not pleased.<P><BR>Okay, folks...<BR>Scenario 1: Your spouse has a friend demanding to exclude you. a.What would your spouse actually do? b.What would you actually do?<P>Scenario 2: You have a friend demanding to exclude your spouse. a.What would your spouse actually do? b.What would you actually do?<P>[This message has been edited by dragantraces (edited April 09, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by dragantraces (edited April 09, 2001).]

This is sooo not right...<BR>There is no way in He** that I would let another woman come into my home and exclude me from my husband..<BR>And I know that there would be no way in He** that my H would allow me to.<BR>As far as I'm concerned children or not---you don't go on a date with someone else (and yes--children to can go on a "date"---doesn't make it sound as bad does it--)<BR>A friend should be a "family" friend..<BR>She knows exactly what she is doing.<BR>And if your H has had previous affairs--he should be well versed in this process. He has to know what this wench is doing.<BR>It really bothers me and you I am sure that your H has no concern about your feelings. Why? Why would he choose the feelings of another woman over yours? Doesn't that show who he cares more for.<BR>That is not how a marriage is suppose to be.<BR>She is definitely not a friend of your Hs either--<BR>No friend would cause problems (come between) a man and his wife...She is doing that and she knows it--she is a very mean and vindictive person...Coniving and manipulative.<BR>A friend would never do these things...<BR>How is your H so blinded?<BR>I know mine was....Thankfully, he woke up and ended those female relationships ...he realized from me what they were doing and how they were not his friends..(unfortunately it took an affair for him to realize the other friendships were bad) . He has grown, I am glad that even if he wasn't with me anymore, he realized what they finally were.<BR>I wish that people could see people for who they really are. I really feel like I had to "brain wash" my H back to reality.<P>She knows exaclty what she is doing..<BR>It is not necessarily that your H can't be trusted.<BR>It is absolutely that she can not be trusted....<BR>I would really like to slap her for you!!!<p>[This message has been edited by crete (edited April 09, 2001).]

Deleted...<p>[This message has been edited by LostNco (edited April 14, 2001).]

Crete, YOU GO!!!!

Wow, I'm with crete - that is SOOOOO not right!<P>I have always gotten along better with men than with women, to be honest, and have never had any kind of relationship with any of them which I would not share with their wives. There have been times when I would rather have talked to my male friend if I called or something, however, I felt that it was NOT my right to insist on any kind of private time with him. Being a friend to both of them is important and essential to me, and by doing so, I have earned their (very justified) trust and eventually the wives have been comfortable enough to occasionally allow us those "private moments" to talk.<P>And I would NEVER ever ever ever ever betray that kind of trust. Nor would I ever dream of insisting that I GET that kind of trust.<P>Your husband is being disrespectful if he allows this woman to dictate to him regarding your "presence" in her "vacation". It is HIS place to tell her "Both of us, or nothing..." There are plenty of places in the world for her to vacation - she shouldn't choose to do so in your marriage, and your husband shouldn't allow her to make that choice.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>