tanya, i'm not doing too good. he just came back from boston yesterday, went up there w/ his brother to get his bother stuff, they are moving here. anyway, h was joking with me when they got here, i had sil here w/ me so they had to come get here, anyway pulling my hair and stuff. i don't know if i told you about ow#2 and her getting out of picture, seems she wanted more than he wanted. anyway we were all suppose to go out to eat after they put the stuff in storage but by the time they got done it was 930 pm and they were all tired so we said we would do it at another time. so i thought. my sil called me, wait let me back up a bit. i figured out his cell password, still know him better than he knows himself. i listen and i did erase some, i'm bad, but he had a few from ow #1, who was very nasty and vandictive, i'm not worry about that one, she is over with. but there was one from the new one, which i did erase. anyway like i said sil called me this morning and she doesn't know what is going on. said that h told her while they were in boston about karen and about her being physco too and that he was done with it and that she got the impression, cause of the way he was frasing words, that it was ok to tell me. anyway she said that when they got back to the rv h had taken a shower and was on the phone w/ his mom then he left, supposely to ow #2. she said that her and her h got into a fight about it cause she feels like i am being pushed around by it and that she is in the middle, i told her that i didn't want her to be in the middle, she said that is not what she meant. said that he needed to be honest with her cause she didn't think he was and what the hell is my h doing, especially with this other old ----. he said that she had her **** together and the rumors aren't true that guys at the bar gave h a high five when he got her, you know what i mean, and said that alot of guys have tried for the past year. she's a ---- and is 20yrs older than him. what is he doing is he stringing me along, what does he want from me. i haven't called and i don't intend to, been kind of upset since i heard this morning. talked with his mom and she don't know cause he told her that it was on it's way out and about what happen. and he still says that he wants to date. ya right, how many times do i have to get my heart ripped out, why am i soooooo stupid. what the hell have i done? he talks about our relationship and says it was a 9 the whole time, we never really argued and he tells sil and bil that he cries all the time cause he misses us. like he is showing it. please help, i don't know what to do

Hrtbroken...one question. Have you thought about maybe going have divorce papers served to him? I know that probably isn't what you really want but I think it would be a wake up call to him. From what you are saying he seems to think that you will always be there no matter what he does. And from what I see in your posts that he is stringing right along and you are falling for it every time. He holds on to you until something else comes along. Then he lets go and "tries" it with the OW. Then when that doesn't go right then he starts telling you things that you want to hear so that you will be there right beside him until he decides to cling onto someone else for a week. I really do think divorce papers being served to him will be a slap in the face and make him realize that your not going to wait for him to make up YOUR mind. If that doesn't wake him up and make him want to go to counseling together and drop all the ow. Then he isn't sincere about coming back home. From what I have read in the post it's been a long year. How much longer are you going to sit there and put your kids and yourself through this torture???????

i've decided that i am not going to accept any of his phone calls, and i don't want him to come over here. the hard part is that we have kids and i remember on a lot of occasions when i didn't want to speak to him my oldest daughter would tell him that i didn't feel like talking and he would say, at a later date that i have to talk with him, that we had to for at least 18yrs. so how do i do this with the kids, i don't want to discuss even the kids with him, it hurts to much, and becides he doesn't ask like everday things of how they are, how they doing in school, ect....and he doesn't ask about the baby, he doesn't talk yet so he can't talk to him on the phone. sil had just left and told me that he did stay home last night, and she said she thinks that he is still in limbo. ya right, he still thinks we are suppose to do the dating thing. i'm not going to call him and be nasty, i'm just not going to do anything. i asked sil if she new if he was planning to give me any money tomorrow and she said that she didn't know. i asked her if she wouldn't mind to get the money from him and bring it to me herself, she said that she would, i just told her to tell him, so he wouldn't get pissed off at her, that he just hurts to much for all of us for him to come here. your right he needs to get smacked in the face with reality. he will get mad when he gets the papers from cs. you see when we had our court date he didn't show up, since he didn't file any taxes when went by minimal wage, so i called them up a couple of wks ago and i told them that that wasn't fare, so they are demanding him to supply a current pay stub. what is funny is that he is self employed, condtruction, and when he does a job they are like 4000.00 a wk in his name then he has to pay the people he has working for him. so they will base it on that. and since he is behind big time they already issue to supend his liscence, which right now won't matter cause he doesn't have one and that is why he went to jail twice, and he is suppose to pay to get it back this week or next before he goes to court and then they are going to take it again for the non payment if it isn't already. i will laugh if he goes and pays the 2000.00 to get it back and they won't give it to him. then they are going to arrest him for non payment. and that night he talked to me about taking one child each night to sleep over with him, says since he hasn't been around all 4 in a while he couldn't handle it, like i am. so, he's not going to have it his way, if it went through the courts, he is going to have all at one time and it will be every other weekend from saturday morning to sunday night. let him see how it is with out his family. and i hope he feels like **** cause this new old trash bar ---- has a boy 6yrs old, let him look at him everytime and see what a piece of ---- he is for not being with his own children and that temper of a woman and wonder who and when she is doing. these woman are everything he stood against, i remember one night along time ago he went to a strip bar with some friends and i asked him what they get from going there. he said all he did was play pool, i said what if i worked in one of those places or those dive bars if he still would be with me. he said he would of ---- me, but he wouldn't be with me. so go figure. i'm just tired of this ride and all i keep wondering what is it that i have done to deserve this. i lost my home, starting to do it again, i lost a car and was with out one for months, struggleing with money and all this time he went to living with the first ow to his dad's, then to the first ow, and now in his mom's rv, his truck broke down, she got him a car, when he left her she took it back and his brother is letting him use his extra truck!!!where is his come around! you know, what comes around goes around! it is all happening to me and the kids cause of what he did, and he is walking around with out a care in the world. they say things happen for a reason and i sure the hell can't figure this one out.

Hrtbroken...you really didn't answer my question about divorce. It's been a year. What you need to do is sit down with him somewhere. No kids, no nothing. Not at your home. Maybe meet at a restaurant and ask him to go to counseling with you on a permanent basis. If he says he can't right now then THAT'S YOUR ANSWER. He doesn't want to work on the relationship. That the whole time he has been feeding you a line of bull****! If he doesn't have any woman in his life then there shouldn't be a problem with finding time to go. He has no one to answer to, so he can't say OW wouldn't let him go. Ask him, are you IN LOVE with me. Then say don't answer that right this instant. I want you to sit and do some soul searching and think am I in love with her or is it just that I love her. Alot of men can't say that they are in love with there wifes! He has been gone a year and has had plenty of playtime and that may be what he wants. So if it is...let it be. You file for divorce get yourself and your kids lifes together and quit believing all his lies!!! You sound very gullable and maybe he thinks that too so he is going to keep feeding it to you. Have you ever really sat down and thought hmmmm...is the reason for him treating me like this is because he doesn't really want to be with me but he doesn't want me with anyone else either so he keeps feeding me this bull**** so that I wont fall for someone else?? Maybe if you really sat down and read these post that everyone else is writing to you when you ask for help and let it soak in then you would probably find 99.9 % of your answers. It seems like you are'nt really wanting to take it all in because you have your mind set to a certain way and even if people are here trying to help you that your still going to ask the same questions..."what should I do". There are many of people that have suggested what you should do. And maybe if you took what they said into consideration and tried it then maybe most of your questions would be answered. Not trying to be hard on you. Just want you to look deep down inside and see what he has done to you and your children and if you really want to live like this for the rest of your life and for your children think that this is how life is supposed to be when they get older.

Dear Heart,<P>You sound like me but have been going through it longer and with more children to care for. My heart goes out to you. <P>You though are a survivor. You have held your family together and from what I read have the support of relatives and friends. This is and more are your positive points. I want you to remember to look at your positive points and accomplishments before you allow pity to swallow you up. <P>It is ok to feel sorry for yourself but not swallow you up. This is the tough love part. Please read the post on the General Questions II site about: What if the WS thinks they are not in the fog?<P>I asked this question yesterday and received some straight answers. A bit for me to swallow, but real medicine at the right time. I had to look at myself (really the only part of this relationship that I have control over) and face my issues and make the required changes. <P>Hope this helps you. It certainly has been a turning point for me. <P>Take Care, <BR>L.

i really do appreciate the replies and do listen. i guess i just needed a kick in the pants and my reality check, at least for my children. speaking of the devil, he just called here and i didn't answered left a message all nice. but anyway, i do appreciate it, this is a rough thing for all of us, and i always thought if someone had done this to me that would be it. i mean i had boyfriends that did this and i walked away. but this is hard.<BR>orchid- i did read your post and it meant alot of sense thanks. i know i will probably be going back and fourth with my emotions, i which i could stop them and just be cold, but it's not that easy. anyway, thanks ....oh if you have time, read the flower post