Friends, Yesterday, after our session with the counselor (during which my H (EA)said mostly, he had learned not to trust the people he works with) we went to H office. He was putting in a phone line and I just sat at his desk. He gave me a folder of his itinerary to look over, but I didn't have my glasses on and decided to play a game on the computer. After a few games I glanced around the desktop and saw that there were two mahagony clocks and a magnifying glass with a mahagony handle in a velvet stand. <P>When H came back into the office I thought I would ask and not let my imagination spin stories. So I said " will you tell me where some of these things came from" and he said the smaller clock was just left in his previous office, so he brought that along. The magnifying glass was given to him by OW. There it was front and center right on the edge of his desk pad. On the way home I said that I had asked him if there were any gifts exchanged and at that time he had said no. He gave all the office girls calendars at Christmas and plants on Secretary's Day. OW's plant was larger than the others. H says he forgot about the glass being a gift from her. I told him I felt hopeless, I thought we have come to an impasse and I needed him to choose to work on "us". I have been working at this for 9 months now, by myself, and I have no hope left. I feel numb. <P>I have given H a couple things for his office. A pen that looks like a walking stick and a pewter coca cola train and a rotary picture album. I only saw the little train on a shelf on an adjacent table. He says the pen was also on the desk (I didn't see it or the photo) <P>This morning I asked when he would be back in his office so that I could come down and pick up some things. He told me 2 PM. H asked why I wanted to do that and I told him I hadn't realized it was a competition, and I was withdrawing.<BR>Tell me if I am wrong here, please. Thanks, L

Why don't you just ask him point-blank if he is ready to give up the gifts <I>she</I> gave him (instead of taking back the gifts <I>you</I> gave him)? You can take them to the Salvation Army, or whatever, so that maybe someone else can be helped by the proceeds of their sale. Or you could just destroy them yourself. <P>I can't guarantee that these items were on his mind or were not on his mind at any given point in time. I can tell you that guys are less mindful than women. He doesn't get any credit for being thorough and searching in his answers to the questions about gifts, but don't flame him in your own mind either, just because you wanted him <I>all the way back</I> and it's apparent that some of the dust of the affair is still clinging to his apparel. <P>He may have never thought of them when he answered, or he may have minimized their importance and significance in his own mind (they sound a lot more like corporate tchotchkes rather than extremely personal items like underwear, clothing, photos, etc.). In any case, now you know about them, and if they go away you and he will be free.<P>If you really had <I>cojones</I>, you would show up with more luxurious <I>replacement</I> items, and <I>as lovingly as possible</I> make the swap.

Thanks sisyphus,<BR> I have just been so bummed all day. <BR> He didn't call so I could meet him at his office, he went there before he called. He asked if I wanted him to bring the things home or come and get them. I told him he could bring them. He asked,what did I want. I said, my photo (which he couldn't even find), the pen and the train. <BR>He called back a few minutes later and had found the photo in the rotary album instead of the frame I gave with it. He wants to keep it there. <P>He wants to go to a movie tonight. I am surprised He started talking about the academy awards, etc. Do I approach him again on his display of her gift "front and center", or just take my things and shut up. <P>You are probably right. He says he never thought of that as a gift from her, it was just part of his 'stuff' when he moved to this job. I never saw it before.<P>I need to mention something that I am relating to this particular gift. My H had an Atlas of our state and in there at the spot of her northern retreat, was a very small arrow. He says he put it there, "he doesn't know why". I said when I found it (I looked because he was so nervous about the Atlas) ...it's such a small mark, only to be noticed by two people... and he said probably. <P>Now I see she gave him a magnifying glass. He says it was some years ago, but so was the Atlas new at that time. I am so tired of this and I know that is a common refrain. <P>L

From his point of view this is a very long time to want to reach back and find things to beat him up over. It's a lovebuster to him that you are behaving this way. <P>Of course, he is not seeing your side as the BS, who is looking at these items <I>now</I> that have not been <I>purged</I> and that he passes off as nothing (he didn't bother to purge or disclose them, and now it's catching up to him). <P>It's not that he <I>wants</I> to hurt you like this. He's just keeping his <I>head down</I> so it won't get <I>shot off</I>. <P>Although he doesn't deserve to be met halfway, there is a possibility you and he can get through this if you were to say to him something like: "Please understand, every time I find some object, gift, notation, etc. that has her in any way shape or form as its origin, it is like I feel a knife twisting in my gut. It doesn't matter that you're not doing anything "right now" ... I'm finding out about it "right now" and it's as if I've stepped on a very old but live land mine from a war that is over. It can't keep happening. Because when I get hurt, I'm going to hurt you. I need a real, <I>concerted</I> effort out of you to round up all of the <I>cursed objects</I>, whether at home, at the office, or in the car(s), and disclose and dispose. If I believe that effort is real, and thorough; then if I ever find anything again I can console myself with the knowledge that you did your best, and I won't feel <I>as hurt</I>. But right now they're ripping me (and hence <I>us</I>) apart, every time they show up. I love you, but if we're going to make it you have to help with this situation."<BR>_______________________________________________________<P>I also feel like it's a lovebuster on your part to want to pull those things out of his office. Even if he doesn't resist, he <I>resents</I>. You might tell him that <I>if</I> he does a thorough purge that satisfies you, you will let him put them back. Keep them where he can't be <I>tempted</I> to <I>take</I> them back without your approval. Out of sight, out of mind. Don't tease him with opportunities for him to lovebust.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited March 15, 2001).]

Ok, if stand back aways it looks vaguely like a LB. I told him in an email and told him to keep the items I gave him there. <BR>I hope you don't mind if I quoted you pretty liberally in my second email to him. <BR>I want to tell you that after we talked on the phone, he sent a bouquet of flowers, the note says that I am the only one he loves. <BR>That is why I sent the second email, a thank you and apology for over reacting to the display of her gift. I don't think he got that email before he wrote one to me, saying that the first thing he did when he got to work was move the glass off the desk and he is bringing it home for me to do what ever I will.<BR>When I saw that glass, an expensive looking item, next to the little pewter train, I really felt outdone. I guess my wanting mine back was so he wouldn't see them together with her gift. I don't know. <BR> <BR>Thanks again for your valued response, it is hard to think straight when you think you are feeling a set-back has occurred. <P>I think I will try and make the evening go much better for him. It's not good to be the shrew! L

I don't know your story but will share what my husband and I did. He was the unfaithful one and the affair was revealed and ended three years ago. We consider ourselves healed and very happy today. Now....<P>I asked about gifts very early on and my husband said he hadn't received any from the ow, but he did give her some small things. I asked him to ask her to return them and sat with him as he wrote the email and gave her the instructions how to return them. One was a gift certificate to a book store...she wrote us a check to reimburse us. The others were returned in a cardboard box with a note of apology. Had she given him any gifts, I would have asked him to either return them to her or throw them away....no other options. There is no need for any reminder of an affair to remain in your lives.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

Thanks HGB.<BR>Well, the update is that he kept my gifts at work and brought her gifts home in a box, a couple of nice coffee mugs and the fancy magnifying glass with stand. The next day (yesterday) we were leaving for the store and he said...I have put something into the trash, if you want to look at it, okay. I had no idea at first, was it an animal, trash, or a bag of kitty litter...I didn't know. I walked over there and it was a complete set of grill tools with a suede glove. It looked very expensive. <BR> I went back to the car and tried to pour a sipper cup of juice for our GGrand son who was with us, but spilled some of it because I was shaking. <BR>I told him maybe I better not go, and he asked me to please, please understand that he loved me and only me and had made the decision to bring those things into the open so that he would never have to explain them later, there was nothing else that he could remember getting, and he said he thought about home, office, and his van. I went with him and felt better the more I thought about it. <BR>Last night we weren't alone until after 10 PM so I asked him to give me a little time to talk before he got too tired. <BR>He started the conversation by saying why he had brought the things for me and said he never, got her anything other than what he got the other office girls, calendars at Christmas and a plant at Secretary Day. He was always flabergasted when she gave him a gift, but never reciprocated, only thanked her. <BR>I told him I would like to send it all to her husband with a note, but he hasn't said anything in reply to that. <BR>I feel much better today and I told him so, I feel that we are both on the same side of this situation finally. Can it be that some action can change my outlook? I hope it is permanent. <BR>Like Sisyphus said, he could set us free if he disclosed and disposed. H was affected by the email that contained excerpts of Sisyphus idea. <BR>We leave for a week long trip tomorrow morning, but I will check the forum tonight, thanks again,<BR>L<BR>