H sent no contact letter a few weeks ago after trying to break off relationship several times. I was blind copied on the email to her, so she doesn't know that I know there was a no contact letter.<P>There has still been contact, as OW still continues to call H---"minimally" he says, and he "usually" doesn't answer the phone when she calls. He left town for business last night, so while I knew he was on the flight, I checked his cell phone voice mail, and there was another message from her. This one indicated that he'd left her a message earlier, and that she was expecting his call when he got to his destination.<P>I left message for H to call as soon as he landed because we needed to talk. He of course denied everything, but when I finally said that I'd heard the message he got very angry and defensive (no surprise there). He insists that there is nothing left of their relationship, but she just calls to talk. I kept pushing the issue and he finally said that he'd take care of it. But, will he??? I have no reason to believe that he will at this point.<P>He gets angry when I snoop, but the point is that I always find something. I think he finally understood that today when I talked to him. I told him that if I didn't have any reason to snoop, then I wouldn't, but because I keep finding voice mails, text pgs, etc. that I'm going to keep doing it. He says it's going behind his back, I say it's not because I told him I was going to keep doing it until it stops. How do we build back any trust whatsoever if this crap still keeps happening???<P>What do I do? I really would like to call OW and ask her to please leave him alone, as he's trying to rebuild his marriage. Is this a bad idea? Do I just ignore her and try to go on as if she's non existant? Problem is, things start to get better between H and I, and then it's so obvious when there's been contact because things backslide again. Until it finally stops for good, I'm just afraid that we're going to continue in this cycle, and after a year, I can't do it much longer. <P>Please help, I'm so tired of this that I don't know how much longer I can hang on.....

hurtinginil - I wish I could directly relate, but I can imagine your frustration. I'd bet many "no contacts" start off slow. May I suggest you post your question on the Recovery forum and maybe you'll get more responses.<P>Dave

hurtinginil,<P>Since I first came here, I remember you being here as well. I'm so sorry for your predicament.<P>In answer to your query, OW won't give up because your H hasn't. <P>An "e-mail" no contact letter is a very bad idea. How do you know he didn't amend the original and send her something completely different than what you got? A handwritten no contact letter would have been best, you get to give final proof-reading approval, and then YOU should seal and mail it to her.<P>But anyway, do you think your H was ready to cut off contact to begin with? Don't his actions show he's still sitting on the fence?<P>What are we supposed to do when our guys aren't following thru and we're losing our love units, hurtinginil? <BR>

Hurtin,<BR>If he wasn't going behind your back, you wouldn't be going behind his back. He's not honest, or at least not forthcoming, but expects you to trust him.<P>Are you guys in counseling? I find that if my counselor says the same thing I say, my H can "hear" it, whether H has just tuned me out, or whatever, hearing from another man makes an impact on him.<P>Last month my H asked me if he was never going to be able to have female friends (after lunching with 2 female co-workers). I said, sure he could have all the female friends he wanted, but none of them would be me. (we already established last year when I served D papers that I was not going to be anything but a slightly polite ex-wife/cordial co-parent.)<P>I think in your situation, with no contact relatively new, I'd wait through the withdrawal awhile longer, but have a talk with him that withdrawal is set back to ground zero with new contact.<P>Later on, and I don't know how compatible this is with MB, I'd ask him to call the OW in my presence to tell her he was with me and no more contact. In fact (suddenly recalling!) I did do this, but she wasn't home, and the other time she wasn't in her office. But the fact that he seemed willing was in my H's favor. Your H's reaction to the request will tell you something--whether he is protecting you or the OW, if he doesn't want to do it, he may be doing some fence-sitting.<P>But definitely try counseling if you aren't already, go alone if he won't go (something that also indicates how willing he is to work on your relationship).<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

ExOW hung on like a pit bull here. She saw my H as her ticket out of the land of white trash and wasn't about to let go easily of what was probably her only chance at the cushy life she desperatley wanted. She was a single Mom, crappy job, no education. She had nothing to lose by hanging on until the bitter end. H broke off the EMR on his own. I know for a fact that he told her it was completely over and not to contact him anymore. When she called to spill the beans she (stupidly for her) told me everything he had said to her to end the EMR. Of course she then said that she neve r wanted to speak to the "lying bas---d" again anyway and I was welcome to him. Of course she started calling him and begging for more contact immediately. We didn't do a no contact letter. I know it works for some people but for her ANY contact from him would have been a good thing and encoraged her. So started the harassment, hang ups, endless calls to his work, voicemails etc. Finally one day I had had enough. I blew a fuse and called her, basically told her to leave us the f--k alone, she had already caused enough pain, our baby was about to be born and we were staying together. She then said "I can be friends with whoever I want. If I want to call him I will. I don't care about you or your baby. I'm glad you are in pain. I was hurt by all of this too." Then I REALLY laid into her. I informed her that from that point on she would deal exclusively with me or the police. Our numbers were being changed, H was getting caller ID on his work phone and not answering any unidentified calls or her calls (he was already not answering as much as possible). That was finally the end. She went away. I continued to check up on him for a long time. He never got mad because he had nothing to hide. I do think that lots of no contacts don't exactly get off to a running start. Often to the OP "no contact" means "I have to contact him right now to argue about no contact." Hang in there.

She's contacting him because he's in contact with her. He gets angry at you for "snooping" because he's still hiding things. What are the ramifications if he does keep in contact with her? Are you just telling him yet again to stop or does he understand that one more contact means he's out? A lot of how long an affair continues depends on how YOU handle it. If he really wanted out of his marriage to be with her he would have done it already. He hasn't. But if he REALLY wanted to work on his marriage and wanted forgiveness he would have stopped all contact with her. In his eyes he's got it good right now. The both of you fighting over him. I say you need to have repercussions if he continues to sneak behind your back.<P>

I've been there and in my situation, she was always calling/emailing him because he was in contact. My gut feeling always told me that & I'd discover it as well by checking up on him just as you are. I did contact OW. I sent her a nasty email several months ago & although my H was angry, I didn't care. I felt I had nothing to lose at that point and the intention was to hurt her. I found out through my H that it did. Then a couple of months ago I contacted her again as she was trying to meet up with him to 'say goodbye' for the 100th time. One of those 'goodbyes' led to them having sex again 2 weeks after I gave birth. He threatened to walk out after telling me he'd recommitted to our marriage 3 weeks earlier. Anyway she hung up on me. H got mad for contacting her & said he didn't want to call her again. I said as long as she's after my H, I can call her. She can contact him all she wants & he doesn't have to contact her - but they always seem to reconnect because HE allows it. We need to go with our intuition. I know many people on this site say don't contact OW but I wish I had long ago & everyday that the affair lasted. I want to make her life just as miserable as she made mine.<BR>Your H has to earn back your trust & one way is for him to be an open book - check his messages - if he has nothing to hide, then he won't care.<BR>H says it is definitely over & has been since Oct but I can't help but think he's lying & giving me false hope again. It's very frustrating. Even though he is in my life right now & working on our marriage, I can't help but look back at all the pain and lies, this on-going affair that continued throughout my entire pregnancy. I feel angry at myself for being his doormat, for believing all his lies when the truth was there all along. But if at the end of it all I get what I want - for us to be a happy family together & a H who loves me as much as I love him - then I have to say it would all be worth it. I just wish people would understand the pain that they cause before they actually do anything. We don't need to suffer this much just to prove our love and that we are worth keeping.<BR>good luck

Thanks everyone for the replies. I know that it's basically because he isn't following through and is contacting her and allowing her to contact him. I guess I just need to make a decision how to proceed. Maybe it's time to throw in the towel and stop fighting a losing battle.....

Hurtinginil,<BR>I've been where you are just recently. Two weeks ago I discovered secret e-mail account and seen(by checking his cell phone on calls received and dialed) that they were still calling each other. Like you I had never told him of any consequences if he continued to call her, so he did figuring that I'd just continue to take it. Well, this time I didn't. I blew up and did a lot of crying. Told him that my son and I couldn't take this kind of emotional abuse anymore. He was going on a golf vacation with guys he'd worked with for 20yrs. before the company shut down and I told him to decide then who and what he wanted. I told him the terms if he chose me and his family and I told him what would happen if he chose to deceit me again about not being in contact with her.<P>Well, he chose me. And for the first time since our alleged recovery,Sept 2000 I think he's actually doing what he said he'd do and break off contact(at least on a personal level since she does work for him). I say this because for the first time ever I see that he is in withdrawl. I'm being especially loving and considerate and I hope he'll see that the grass was actually greener at home.<P>I know this isn't the MB principles but my husband was quite content to have his cake and eat it to. I don't know that this works for everybody. But I knew my husband; he hates confrontation and avoids it with a passion. He'd probably would have stayed on that fence indefinitely. I don't know what the future holds, if he'll backslide or not. I know it's more difficult since she still works there. But she's playing the woman scorned big time and LBing all over the place since he's told her it's finished and he's not contacting her anymore. He told her he loves his wife and hopes he can make up for what he's done and she blew up big time. He says she's not the woman he thought she was, that maybe she never was. <P>Anyway, I sent you an e-mail. Feel free to contact me anytime.Don't throw in the towel unless you don't love him anymore.I know how hard it is to give and give and give and receive little to nothing in return in the way of love. I think in lot of cases the wayward spouses haven't lost their love for us, they've just misplaced it like car keys. Eventually, they will find it.

Aries, hi there! I got your email, and we are so close in proximity to one another (less than a mile), that it is very weird. I'll reply to your email or give you a call as soon as I get my kids their lunch.<P>Talk to you soon!

Come on, girl, this is Birdbeak we're talking about here! Freud only knows what that Valley Girl's mindset is . Hel-LO! Her family is supporting her affair (see boys and girls, inbreeding is baaaaaaad! )<P>You <I>know</I> that I think that you should call the witch. Your H is playing you both - the difference is, you know it, and she doesn't. I really don't think that it would hurt to shatter the perfect image that she has of your H. And if she is so "in love" with him, it'll be one hell of a wake-up call to hear the things that he's been telling <I>you</I> concerning your recovery and marriage. Amazing, you would think that a woman trying to make it in Corporate America would have a brain, or at least some common sense!<P>You have to be civil (or nice, if you can pull off that kind of Academy Award winning performance) Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, right? But this way, you find out all of the information that you need to know (and them some, I'm sure), AND you pull the wool off of her "MM can do no wrong" thinking. E-mail her if that's the only way you feel comfortable, but that would give her too much time to think and convince herself that "it couldn't be true." If you present her with the facts of what he told you and are physically there to answer her questions, she'll have to believe it. Rule #1 of Basic 101 Sales is to close at the time of presentation!<P>If you need help with what to say, I will even help you formulate a script. I <I>knew</I> that your H would do what he did - I can't believe the nerve of these guys! But I'm saying that I knew because my H has done the same damn thing, and it sucks.<P>E-mail me at home if you need to. My phone is screwy right now, so I don't know when I'll be able to get incoming calls. Good luck!<P>