Okay, I know I'm going to make people mad, but you know what, I just don't care.<P>There were probably a hundred times when I could have said some things, but I held my tongue out of respect for the BSs and their feelings. Many times, I invite WSs to contact me by email - because some of the things they (we) want to get off our chest - well, it would only cause the BSs more harm than good. And, I think this site is dedicated to building marriages, not riping them apart. Alot of the things a WS feels - well, it's passing feelings - the rollercoaster. It passes - so I don't want some things to be said "in the heat of the moment" that would cause more pain than good for WSs. <P>But, where I get frustrated, and I'm not coming down on anyone, but the source of my frustration comes from people who think that having an affair is okay. That they're looking to justify what they are either doing or what they want to do. I know BS put up with a lot of selfish behavior on the part of the WS, but to try and justify adultery on the basis of your emotional needs not being met, well as a WS, I know that is bu--sh--! I have more than once admitted that the A was totally my fault - yes, my marriage was vulnerable, but I was the one who had the affair - crossed that line - traveled to the abyss. But I have always been accountable for my actions. I never blamed anyone but myself.<P>And, when BSs - and we've seen it before where someone wants to contemplate having an affair - because they've put so much into it, trying to reel their WS in, that their needs are going unmet. Then, they come on here, and want us to say - "Gee, since your needs are not being met, sounds great, go have sex with another man outside of marriage - you deserve to be happy." Yea, well, maybe you deserve to be happy, but don't make having an affair legitimate - it isn't. I don't want to hear excuses - I've given them all myself. I don't want to hear how much you have lived through - and nothing has gotten better, you are no longer happy. If you are considering having an affair, then why come to a marriage"builders" site and look for justification? approval?<P>I'm the worst, I actually looked for justification for having an affair in the Bible - trust me you won't find any. I'm just really tired and frustrated that people can wiggle a situation around, to try and justify their behavior, their wants their needs. If you want to have an affair - or are considering it - I could talk until I'm blue in the face about how rotten you will feel afterwards, but don't come on here looking for people to say "gee, you deserve to have a little sex on the side." <P>Okay my vent is over. Sorry to all those I offended. I'm sure there are many.<P>

Deleted<P><p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited March 20, 2001).]

Well said, SKM. Couldn't agree more.....

Ditto,SKM. You would think that with all the pain that was endured, maybe still enduring, a person would think more than twice. Of course, I am the BS. <BR>And yeah, self-respect is a big one for me. The person with the alias didn't say if the OM is married. How could anyone, especially one who has been through it, cause that pain to another?<BR>I hope she does the right thing. Was her H not having his EN met justification for an A, in her case? I betch it wasn't and it didn't make it OK with her then.

SKM,<P> Amen to you !!......I swear you must be Dr.Phil McGraw in disguise, you tell it like it is!.....Thanks....LU

You know what bothers me about that post too?<P>The woman didn't have the guts to say who she was.<P>Over on the divorced board there was a group of people who admitted to meeting someone on the Marriage Builders website, which of course opened them up to huge flaming.<P>I'm not saying what they did is right, but at least all of them (but one) had the guts to use their "name" (the one used here on Marriage Builders). <P><BR>

Nothing much to add here, just throwing my support behind SKM. Hey, SKM, I can't think that standing up and saying affairs can't be justified is going to offend anyone, especially here. You're right. All of us have problems in our lives. There are right and wrong ways to deal with those problems and we each, as adults, choose what our responses will be. I made the wrong (weak) choice and made up all sorts of creative justifications for it, but the justifications don't work. Integrity works. Self-respect works. Doing the right thing works. Affairs not only ravage marriages, but individuals, attacking integrity and self-respect. How can throwing shame, guilt, fear, anger, deceit, selfishness, and ruin on a bad situation make it better? I don't think it can. You're right, SKM: affairs can't be justified. As a recovering WS, I've come to realize it's really a matter of right and wrong. Sometimes marriages have to end, but affairs are just wrong. At the core, I think it's that simple.

SKM- You truly are a wise and wonderful person. You have faced your downfalls and your demons head on and that takes courage and humility. As for the alias- I truly believe you sew what you reap, no matter how much you tell yourself you are sewing beautiful flowers they don't bloom. There is a reason they do not sell dandelions in flowershops. <BR>Bottom line is it is easier. Easier to deny reality and only listen to what you want to hear. TO blame others so as not to take responsibility for yourself. These people are just plain weak! My bil does the same thing. He abandoned his W and kids and married OW, but he did the right thing. His kids suffer which is so sad, but as for my sister she now thrives. I think he hates to see her happy. They hate and hate others because they really hate themselves. It is all fake and superficial, "I only love someone who is doing something for me", so they miss what love is all about. Sometimes I too get mad, but mostly it makes me feel sad, it is to bad they just don't "get it" and baby you "got it"! <P>Joyful

Thank you for the honest and wonderful bashing you gave me, wish you had had the guts to do it on my posting since you also do not like me using an alias. But I guess you preferred to give advice that you did not genuinely believe. I never asked for you or anyone else to say yes have an affair I asked if others had had the same feelings or faced the same dilemma and how they had handled them. I hope that when you came to this site as the WS you were greeted better than you have choosen to greet my question. Using an alias may be wrong in your eyes but it obviously was the right thing to do after reading your post. I can only imagine your response if I had used my other screen name. Would you have still listened to my advice that I so often have written on your post. How easy it has become for you to be judgemental when you originally hoped that you would not be judged as harshly as you have now judged me.

SKM, I agree with you 100%!! There is ZERO justification for what I did, even though I looked for every excuse in the book at the time. I also don't think a "revenge affair" is the answer either.

Although I agree with the intent of this post (no justification for an affair)-- I worry that "flaming" What2do is not only counterproductive but makes her feel like she can't reach out to those who might be able to help her.<P>Believe me, I've been on both sides of infidelity, and I've been flamed but GOOD on this site at times... <P>But more often than not, I've been treated with compassion. <P>I hope she can come back and get some help. Otherwise, aren't we just pushing her toward the obvious "only one" who understands her? I hope I'm making sense...<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Hey all...<BR>I think that most of us agree that there is not a good justification for an affair.<P>There are, however, contributing factors.<P>I read what2donow's post this am, and it has since been deleted, so I'm operating from memory, bear with me. As I recall, she was keenly feeling the lack of having her ENs met...a big "contributing factor". Lots of us have been there, and it does make having an affair look tempting, ya know ? But, instead of acting on those feelings right away, she is/was taking time to ponder, to discuss, to try and sort things out. Alias or not, that takes some guts.<P>W2DN...<BR>I do hope that you will consider the questions & thoughts posed to you on your thread...there are some good ones...and let the vents roll off your back. Its a volatile subject, and skins get thin.<P>As for me, yeah, I have thought of an affair at times, but decided that it would kill my soul. Luckily, the further along we go, the better my H is able to meet my ENs, so things are getting steadily better. But, I do recall being in a place where I doubted he could/would ever meet my needs. I guess if we'd ended up stuck there, I would have had to face some tough choices. <P>Good luck...<P>Kathi

I only posted twice here and by no means is this a flame to anyone but merely make an observation.<P>These forums are open to everyone. 'Rules of engagement' are that all seeking and wanting give support, help, advice are welcome. General etiquette is that try state your opinion without harsh tones. Remember we are all faceless people here and what others have to go by is just the way we described our own situation. At the end of the day, take what fits, what you want and disregard the rest and not to take it personally.<P>Having said that, there are harsh words being said in this thread but certainly not flaming. To What2DoNow, you have asked and received advices, although some were delivered heavy handedly. By stating that you are using alias is opening a can of worms. You must know that there is this possibility of exactly what happened. As I said before, take what fits and do not look upon this as attacking you personally because we are all faceless here.<P>Just my 2 cents worth and sorry if I have rambled.<P>EE

ditto SKM...

I also read the post by What2DoNow. Even though this seemed like an easy answer for most of us it was a true problem for them. I agree that there is no excuse for having an affair. But I also agree that we are not here to make people turn away from us by being so selective about what we decide is an appropriate question. I agree that all we may have accomplished here was to drive her towards the one person who knows how she feels and won't turn his back on her. I only wish that at times we would think before we said things that hurt others. The alias doesn't bother me so much since she may be ashamed of thinking these thoughts. I just feel it is awful that we have driven away someone who really needed us.<P>------------------<BR>Healing in NC

SKM<P>AMEN!!<P>My H was like you he has look to the Bible to justify his A. He has quoted me scripture on how I failed as a wife, that made his A, not as bad.<P>As always I admire you & the other WS that come here, & want to work on your marriage & admit what they have done is wrong, no matter how bad the marriage is.<P>Thanks for all you do,