What2donow -<P>Okay, the dust has settled - a little bit anyway.<P>First, I guess, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else on this site. This site is open to anyone, who has any question, or wants to post any thought. My new thread - honestly - was not intended to be a bashing of you or anyone else. I was frustrated, that's all. For almost a year, I've been coming here as a recovering WS - during that time, I have taken it upon myself to dis-sway anyone who was thinking about having an affair - just simply from my perspective and the H$ll I went through. My experience was not fun - it was eye-opening. <P>For months, I have seen posts from WS and BS spouses alike -that have been ugly. I myself have been ugly. The things I say don't come from being uncaring - I think I care too much - and there in lies the problem. I don't want you to go through the same things I did - if I can help it. I don't want to see other WSs or BSs go through the same things I did - because what I did was stupid, wrong and inexcusable. If anyone can experience H%ll on earth - I did - not during the A but after. <P>I think when anyone contemplates having an affair - or even tossing out questions related to the possibilities or the feelings they are going through - I want to counteract those feelings with reality - the aftermath - and sometimes, I get frustrated and say things rather harshly - for that I apologize, I was wrong. My ideas are the same, but I could have worded them a little more nicely.<P>As for my welcome to the marriage builder site - yes, I was welcomed - but I think I was generally accepted because I knew that what I had done was wrong and I was trying to make things right. Over the past year, I have gotten some very good advice - things I would have never thought about -and I appreciate every comment that was given to me - even if it was a bash, a slap in the face - a slap back into reality.<P>Sometimes, I got unsolicited jabs - sometimes I asked for it. One time, I asked if it was possible to ever be friends with the OM - you want to talk about harsh responses Someone told me "Go find a friend that you haven't slept with." And that has probably been the single most important piece of advice I have ever gotten here. It slapped me out of my so-called fantasy and back into real life - it kept me on track.<P>So, no I did not mean to bash you or anyone else. My frustration was simply as stated in my message. I now believe that adultery - or relations outside of marriage - is wrong. I had to learn that lesson the hard way - I just didn't want you to have to learn it through the same method.<BR>I have said it before, and I'll say it again - I can not, nor do I want to - judge anyone else or their circumstances. For months, I have prayed to God - everyday - that he give me guidance to say the right things, to give encouragement where encouragement is needed, to help me serve him by serving his people. I don't know much about anything, really, but I do know about the pitfalls of infidelity. I cannot force anyone to believe what I believe; I cannot even persuade them to think differently - but sometimes, I just feel like I have to say something - anything. And out of that, sometimes, I can say the wrong thing - that I'm not as compassionate as I should be and for that I apologize.<P>Again, I understand that you were asking a question about those "feelings" in your post - that's why I did not want to get out my frustration on your thread. I apologize that other people may have said some things out of frustration, too. I'm sure no one meant to hurt you personally. And, I, too am sorry that you felt as if you had to post under an anonymous alias - just so you could vent your true feelings and get honest answers to your questions.<P>I have never used an alias. But, I have intentionally not posted to threads that beat up on the OP or WSs. I can make fun of WS - because I was one, but some things that are said here can be very ugly at time - to those threads, I generally do not post my real feelings, or I do not post at all. And, in situations where I have no experience or any thoughts on how to help, I don't post. <P>Where I feel as if I have some experience, I feel compelled to respond. Again, I apologize that my response to your post, and my new thread, was not worded as good as it could have been. I was - frustrated - maybe I'm too concerned about other people and I should just focus on my own problems. I will try to do that.<P>Again, humbly I apologize if I offended you, or caused others to "Gang up" on you - that was not my intention. I just needed reassurance that everyone still believes that adultery is wrong - that there is no justification for it. I think Clarity said it best - some marriages survive others do not, but infidelity is not the right way to go in any circumstance. Anyway, sorry if I misinterpreted the context of your message - I never meant to hurt you. (God, seems like I'll never be able to stop saying that. . .) and that alone keeps me humble.<BR>

A sensitive and humble response. Nicely said, SKM.

SKM,<P>I hope it's okay to ride your coat tails.<P>What2DoNow,<P>I would like to offer my apologies too. It is not like me to judge, and I was wrong to say anything about your using<BR>an alias.<P>The fact was you were coming for help.<P>Please forgive me.

Dear SKM.<P>Your insights have helped me greatly to understand where my WH is coming from. I have even emailed some of your posts to him. Not that I get much response, but I know it has had some effects. Especially about the unique factor. Although, he still feels his A is "different". Know he considers now that it may not be. <P>Remember, the BS is often very angry and takes offense at anything that may hurt. Am sure that they have been grateful for your perspective as the WS. I certainly am. <P>You are truley doing God's work. Please don't stop. You have taken your pain and made it help others. Think that is why we are given these "crosses to bare". Most importantly it has brought you closer to Him.<P>Now, I would like to ask you something. My H went from a six month dreamy, starry eyed state where he was so understanding, kind, caring, etc., while he was carrying on an EA via phone and internet. It came from guilt and trying to ease my pain while he admittedly was continuing with this A and planned on being with her this summer. They spent 4 days together (PA now) the first of March,01. He came back in the same foggy state. Called me often and was really sweet.<P>By March 10th, his attitude became so different. Receptive to my calls, invitaions yet very buisness like and working harder than ever at our buisness. Seemed like he had lots on his mind. Was actually short with me sometimes. DIFFERENT.<P>Is he in a thinking mode? Did OW do something to burst the bubble? What do you think?<P>Hope it's alright to ask here. Really need your response. Actually, I feel it is a hopeful sign.<P>Will keep you in my prayers, as all of those here who suffer from the devastating A factor.<P> <BR>

Whatami - Thanks for your prayers. I sure could use them. As to your question, it's very difficult to speculate. Did he end the affair? March 1 - that's really recent. If you're not sure whether or not he ended the affair - I think that would be the first thing you need to know. During my A, I was "normal," in fact I was probably more nice than normal - because I didn't want my H to suspect anything. When the A went to a PA, well, I felt dirty, sleazy, ugly - and I knew I couldn't keep this a secret from him - so I confessed. I guess, I wouldn't want to speculate, since I don't know whether the affair is over or not. He could be being nice - because he realized his mistake or he could be being nice to keep up the facsade. Maybe if you gave me some more information. . .Does he admit the affair? Did you discover/confront him? Is he still living at home? I'm sorry I haven't been following your story, but I'll try to do a search on your username tomorrow - but if you want to fill me in - that might help. It's really hard to sepculate, though. I know that I was very moody during and after the A, and I was very selfish - only wanting to do what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it.<P>If the affair is over - he might swing up and down due to withdrawl. If the A is still on-going - it could be that something happened with the OW to burst his bubble, and you just ahve to keep doing Plan A - lure him back away from the OW and the illusion of love.

Your insights are so valuable to us, the BS, that you should continue to help and be honest. Even when it hurts.<P>"Only wanted to do what I wanted to do". You certainly have that right in re my WS.<P>Strange how God can turn your downfalls into a tool to help and support others. God forgives you, forgive yourself.<P>Don't know if I should be here on your thread with my questions, but I really wanted to know how the WS is reacting. And who better than to ask, but you.<P>For you, as for me, the emotioanl swings are unavoidable. I know that every swing up should be the ones we go with ( the ones that bring us closer to our goals) and the downward ones should be the ones we stop ourselves from thinking about. How fortunate your H is to have his W trying so hard. <P>Thanks for looking at my story. So repitious sometimes. Hope you're a speed reader. You'll probably see me all over the ball park. TRUE!<P>Took your advice and did some checking. The A is still alive but no longer seems to be residing on Cloud 9. Seems a big problem is the fact that his family and friends have stayed adamant in their rejection of both the A and of the OW. (Will not now or ever accept her) Both WS and OW have expressed to them that in time they might. Here I am hoping that some reality is taking hold. <P>I am plan A'ing but not to the point of gifts, notes etc. Today, I just want to tell H and OW "off". <P>The somewhat sad and resigned attitude of H since March 10th has me somewhat bewildered. Does't seem to as much fire behind his defenses of A and OW. Do you think that he is actually assesing the situation? I almost feel that he doesn't want to come back to the M that was lacking a lot of unmet EN, (on both sides) yet he is being drawn (manipulated by OW) to the "possibility" that the grass is greener illusion. I have told him I did not want the M as it was. I wanted to "try" to work it out with counseling and him to cut all contact with OW. These were the conditions when I told him to leave and not to come back to the home until he was willing to do this. <P>How would you have felt? <P>Anyway, dear. God bless you and your work. It is important. We can only try our best. (Hard to take my own advice.) God will do the rest. <P>

Whatami -<P>I am really sorry to hear that your H moved out and is still involved in the A. I hate to say it, but right now, the only thing that you can do is to Plan A your little heart out. Is he living with the OW? If so, the cracks in their relationship - well, it might just be a matter of time before the "novelty" of their relationship wears thin.<P>I read in a book somewhere when the affair hits the light of day - normally, the relationship lasts less than a year. And, there's several reasons for that - most of it being that reality sets in, and the WS realizes that not only is the grass not greener on the other side of the fence - there's also bare patches of ground and a little crabgrass mixed in.<P>For me, I think I ended the affair mainly because I couldn't keep lying to my H. I didn't know at the time that my marriage would work out or not, but I just had to try. For your H, I think, he's still in the relationship - full swing - the notorious fog. Right now, he may be seeing some of the OW's faults - some of the "Crabgrass" - but it's still not enough to lure him back home to safer ground.<P>It is totally your option about telling your H to leave, and for demanding no contact. But unfortunately, your demands, well, they probably fell on deaf eyes. He probably didn't really mind living home because really "maybe he should be with the OW - that it's fate, that she's his soulmate." So, if his goal is to end his marriage - that just pushed him one-step closer. I'm not saying he has the right goals or anything, I just know that it probably a little bit harder for him to see the good in you, the good things that you have to offer, the Plan A - when he is not around you everyday. Doesn't mean that he won't come to his senses - it might just take a while, that's all. I guess my may concern - and one that you may consider, is that if my H told me to leave and not come back until there was no contact with the OM - well, I'm not so sure I would have come back at all. Even if things didn't work out with the OM - I still - probably would have considered leaving my H.<P>I guess the important thing for me was that I kind of knew that what I was doing was wrong, and that I needed to understand why. But, your H may not be at that point right now - he may thinkg that there is nothing wrong with what he is doing - that yo don't love him anymore - cause look you throw him out - and I know you made a rational decision, but he's not really thinking rationally - he's just trying to justify his behavior and his relationship with the OW. At this point, you have to hope that the OW begins to lovebust and really show her ugly side - in order to point your H towards home.<P>I know how you feel, honestly, about not wanting your H in the house as long as he is in contact with the OW - but that was kind of like the last thing to come - at least for me, and I struggled with it - even though I was totally committed to trying to work things out.<P>I don't know, you may want to consider trying to beef up your Plan A, maybe even get him to move back home. If that is not an option, or he won't accept that, you may want to open the door for him (cause right now, while you may be doing plan A, he may thinkg the door is closed unless he ends relationship and ends all contact). I think maybe you might want to consider taking one step at a time, and the first step would be for him to end the A.<P>Maybe there's some way to tell him that you still love him, that you still care about him, and that if he wants to come home and try to work things out - that the door is always open. Again, it may fall on deaf ears, but at least he would know that he doesn't have to do this, that or the other before he can begin to try. I guess what I'm trying to say - at least from my perspective - that he may think that it will be too difficult to try. And you don't really want to make things difficult - you want to make them easier at this point.<P>For me, again, I had trouble with no contact - even though I was completely sorry and committed to rebuilding. No contact came and I strongely believe in the principle, but I think, right now, it might be a little unrealistic to expect that from your H. Again, completely right to want that, but I guess you have to look at the big picture. It's not about compromising your position or your intergrity or anything like that, but sometimes you have to make small goals, achieve small successes and then finally you get to the big goal.<P>I think all along I assessed the situation. Could be that you H is doing the same. Now's the time to step up plan a - not so much with cards and gifts, but letting him know that the door to reconciliation is still open and more importantly that you still love and care about him.<P>Anyway, just try to hang in there. I know there are a few people who are in similar situations. Unfortunately, only time will tell what's going on through his mind. For me, the one thing that my H did that really helped - was that he was always my best friend. I was able to talk to him openly and honestly about everything - without fear of being berrated. Maybe you can focus on just being your H's friend, get him to trust and confide in you versus the other woman. Somehow, you have to get that foothold into his heart. Yes, he may not be at home right now, but maybe in time, with God, I think all things are possible. So, have faith, patience, but also, maybe there are some things you can do to build that bridge between you and your H. Again, just something to think about.