hurts2much, thank you so much for sharing with me. I am so desperate to find a forum that is more in touch with reality than this forum seems. The people here who are recovering seem to do so very easily. And there are so many aspects of an affair that are not easy for me to digest.<P>My marriage was not perfect and my husband definitely had flaws, but because I thought he was honorable, trustworthy and respectful of me, I was able to overlook the other things. But now what? <P>Someone posted about their child asking how a dad could murder a mom and kids. I know this sounds melodramatic but I can't say my husband wouldn't do that either. He made me feel like I was his life so if he could destroy me by having an affair, who knows what else he could do? I never see this subject addressed. I wonder why? <P>Again, thank you so much. S.<P>ps I'm glad your days are better with your husband.

Hi Summertime,<P>I will give you the short answer to your murder question. Your H won't do that for the same reason he won't do many other things. You feel your H had the affair to hurt you. But I suspect he had it to address his problems, not cause you problems. I doubt that he didn't realize that having an affair, (If caught) would hurt you. <P>But something was wrong with him and he was trying to address it. The wrong way I agree, but I doubt that his intent was to harm you or anyone else. Just because someone lies about something doesn't mean everything about them is a lie. Consider something as simple as dieting. People lie to other people and themselves about dieting. Are they not to be trusted ever again? <P>I realize one issue isn't the same as the other. But that is exactly the point. You H made a hugh mistake, no doubt. But I suspect he has learned from it. Learned things about himself that he is greatly ashamed of. Learned that the answer he was seeking was not to be found in an other person. If he is truely remorseful, you are more likely to have a faithful spouse, than the rest of us who haven't been tested.<P>I see your issue as a glass half full or half empty. It will be your choice to decide. However, there is the other option and that is to fill the glass again or simply empty it out. Personally, I'm from the fill the glass up while you can camp. You never know where the next source of water will be.<P>I look forward to seeing what HGB has to say. She is a very smart lady. I hope she can help you. I know you are seeking help and surely wish I was capable of helping you. Maybe she can.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL, I think much of what you said is true. However, I don't know that he wouldn't murder. I won't put myself in the position of ever saying he wouldn't do whatever. He made a fool of me once, he won't do it again. He is a person I don't know.<P>As far as his not getting caught, he tells me he planned to confess the affair to me because he felt so guilty. I caught him first. So not getting caught was never an issue with him. According to his therapist and mine, he had problems within himself not with me. But the fact is he chose to deal with his problems in a way that would hurt me. And if he wasn't thinking about me, that is equally hurtful. A grown up man of 51 KNOWS having an affair is wrong. I can't rationalize any reason for his doing that.<P>The longer time goes on the more I realize I just don't want to be married to him. I need to find a way to recover alone. Can you help me with that? Thanks for your input. S.

I was the one who originally posted about my child's question about the man who murdered his family. I don't think that man murdered his family to hurt them, or get rid of them. He had been on prozac for depression, and it seems obvious that this was a case of severe mental illness (I don't believe that a mentally healthy person, no matter how evil, could commit such gruesome murders, especially of his own family), but he appeared to be fully functional right up until the night he killed them all.<P>But the point is that you can not know. Fortunately only a small percentage of people murder their spouses and children. But whether it is due to a character flaw or mental illness, you can not know when the person whom you have trusted for most of your life will suddenly become someone you don't recognize, someone who does not care how he, emotionally at least, hurts you or his children.

My h and I had been married 9 years when he had his affair(s)...one EA (he said it was 'friends') and one PA (one night stand). It has been around 2 years since those incidents, and we go through phases of recovering nicely and not recovering so nicely. Recovery has to have two willing partners and sometimes the past does rear its' ugly head on occasion--these are things that take a LONG time to overcome.<P>Nellie, you said:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...But whether it is due to a character flaw or mental illness, you can not know when the person whom you have trusted for most of your life will suddenly become someone you don't recognize, someone who does not care how he, emotionally at least, hurts you or his children.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If I were to actually believe this statement, I wouldn't be in my marriage right now. I can understand why you say this, dealing with all you have had to deal with, but I don't believe that this situation is that commonplace (maybe it is, but you can't go into marriage or keep 'on guard for this to happen, or you don't have a healthy marriage at all). <P>Also, I have also come to rely <B>heavily</B> upon myself for my own happiness. We should strive to better our marriages, certainly, but I have found that I can't become so entrenched in what my h does that I lose myself in the process (which happened after disclosure).

Kayleigh,<P>Unfortunately, I think this situation is quite commonplace. The author of "Sudden Endings" interviewed many, many women who were on the receiving end of "narcissistic rage" after long, seemingly happy marriages. I'm not sure I would have believed it myself until I experienced it. <P>Before I found out about the affair, I asked my H why a few months previously he had changed from the responsible, thoughtful man he used to be to staying away for many hours, never letting me know where he was, etc. -- and he said that he had "entered do-not-care mode" - in other words he no longer cared if what he was doing hurt us or not.

My H thought the marriage was great before and during the affair. He never wanted us to split and was very complimentary towards me always.<P>I'm the same as you. I needed for it all to make sense. It all really ended for me as soon as I found out about the affair, but I was still around because I needed to know everything. I wanted to know who, how often, why, when, where, who knew, yadda, yadda, yadda. But you are right. Affairs are illogical, and when I finally accepted that conclusion and let it go, I began to heal. There is no answer. There is nothing wrong with you. It's the WS's issue and there is nothing you can do to fix it. <P>I'm not someone who can tolerate adultery, so as much as I wanted to fix it, I couldn't. Even if the ex had done everything I needed for him to do to prove his love, he wouldn't have really changed, and I could never be whole again. It had to end... and I am happier that it did because I have to live in honesty.

<B>jcook</B><P>We have been married for 17 years and almost 4 months. We have been together going on 19 years. Our marriage has survived 2 years and a tad over one month since discovery. We have been in true recovery for 16 months. I can't tell you how long we were married when the affair started, because he doesn't really know any dates. So I would only know the answers to that if I ever got the opportunity to talk to her directly and the courage to ask. The affair last between two and five years. Secret friendship to start with and eventually became physical, then a total love affair. That time was probably between a year and two years.<P>I could have written much that <B>HGBrawner</B> said in her second to last post here. Except our marriage had gotten very bad. We both treated each other horribly and let life get in our way. There are many extenuating circumstances in our lives. I won't go into them here. I also was not sure if I loved my husband anymore and that was depressing me further. Midlife crisis had something to do with all of this as well as many other things. He turned to other woman; I turned farther into my own depression.<P>We have a better marriage now, and it isn't because of the affair either. Like <B>Nerlycrzy</B> said it was in spite of the affair. The affair and the fact that he was totally in love with her and did not believe he loved me any more at all was a huge wake up call for me. Upon discovery I immediately knew I did indeed love him.<P>We also have recovered because of what <B>HGBrawner</B> said, our commitment to each other and God. Our children, our history and tons of very hard work and pain. The benefits of going through all this though out way all of the pain. They honestly do. We would not have made it if it were not for God's blessings and grace.<P>The first eight months after discovery were incased with him still being in the fog. Those months though allowed us the time to build a bit and prepare for recovery.<P>We are in love now and it gets stronger everyday...easier and more relaxed. It is exciting and wonderful. Not without times of pain and triggers, but it is a remarkable metamorphous. We enjoy each other’s company and look at life very differently. He and I both want this marriage to work and look forward to whatever years the Lord blesses us with here on this earth together. There is "No out Clause" for us, just as God intended there not to be. We promised each other that 17 plus years ago, we promised God that and all the wonderful family and friends that witnessed our marriage and celebrated it with us. We are not going to break that promise again.<P>I understand much of what you are saying <B>Summertime</B>. I really didn't know my husband any longer, the one that was having the affair. Now I get to look forward to learning and knowing the man he is now and is becoming. It is a wonderful blessed experience. I too would have nearly bet my life on my husband never having an affair. I thought I knew him that well. I was totally blindsided by the discovery of it, even though I had suspected and questioned him about the possibility of his having one. Naturally he denied it. The man I knew and married wouldn't have had one. The man he had become because of life's trial and tribulations did. That doesn't negate the man he was, or is now. It only proves he is human and vulnerable to mistakes and bad judgments. It also doesn't negate who he was while he was having the affair. That man is a man he is ashamed of and says he will take the guilt from it all to his grave. He is no longer that man though, he has grown from his journey, just as I have grown and learned from mine.<P>Now, <B>Summertime</B> you ask <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Someone posted about their child asking how a dad could murder a mom and kids. I know this sounds melodramatic but I can't say my husband wouldn't do that either. He made me feel like I was his life so if he could destroy me by having an affair, who knows what else he could do? I never see this subject addressed. I wonder why? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can say that without a doubt my husband would not do that because even the horrible, hurtful and cruel man he had become during his affair (not to mention incredibly selfish, but none the less a lost man) would not have been capable of doing this. He isn't or wasn't capable of murdering anyone. Murder goes beyond the ability to have an affair or hurt someone emotionally. It is completely a different animal. I know that the pain from adultery feels so close to death and destruction as we could imagine murder would feel. I know I felt like I was dying or wished that death would come and allow me to escape from it. The point I am trying to make is, even though I believe part of my husband did have an affair to hurt me, mostly he had an affair because he went with the emotions that sprung forth from someone making him feel wonderful again. It was about him and how he was feeling and the "fix" that was presented to him at the time. It had very little to do with hurting me. <P>You also post <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>hurts2much, thank you so much for sharing with me. I am so desperate to find a forum that is more in touch with reality than this forum seems. The people here who are recovering seem to do so very easily. And there are so many aspects of an affair that are not easy for me to digest.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>First of all big <B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Summertime}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>This forum really is based in so much reality that it is scary. I have found very few situations on this forum where anyone is recovering very easily. Those are the rare and few exceptions. I also second your statement that there are many aspects of an affair you don't easily digest. I am not very sure that some of them I will ever digest. Nope, cause those aspects just plain stink!<P>My husband had gotten to the point of <B>Nellie's</B> husband and not cared. Still he never planned to be caught and went to great extremes not to be caught. He led a double life and that was killing his spirit and soul. Upon my anonymous phone call alerting me to the affair, he said his first reaction was relief! Relief that he no longer had to be that deceitful ugly man he had become. He felt like a huge weight had been lifted from his shoulders. He, the real and true basis of what he is, was not that man, and although he may never admit it, was not the man he was when he was with her. That was all based on fantasy, no real life problems or daily living. They never in all that time had an argument, saw the distasteful things spouses do when they live together and truly get to know one another nor were they able to ever move around freely with out hiding to some degree or another. That man wasn't him, but instead was someone he was creating much like an actor creates a character in a play or movie. <P><B>Summertime</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also what does it say about our husbands that they couldn't come to us if they were unhappy with themselves, which I think is the same case with my husband. I asked before but never got a response, why should we want to stay with weak men?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Your husband isn't a weak man; he was only a weak man when he was with her. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We've been together since we are 15 and 16 so the fact that I NEVER knew him has been devastating. Not only did he do what he did, but I didn't know the man I counted on. Shame on me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not shame on you. You did know the man he was before he had the affair and you have the opprotuntity to get to know the man he will become after the affair. The choice however is ulitimately yours. The man that was having the affair and the man that he was while he was with her, well that is the man you didn't know.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And the last question, which I understand you may not be able to answer is "What if God wasn't in your life?" Where would your marriage be now? Thanks, I hope I'm not prying too much. S.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I know I am answering questions, in fact most of them that are not directed at me but <B>HGBrawner</B> and I am sure her responses will be much better than mine, but...<P>If God were not in my life and in my husband's life, we would not have made it. The commitment and vows meant very much to both of us. Our daughter in common did too. God blessing us with the chance at recovery and his gracious gifts during this struggle is what is getting us through. He truly is an awesome God! <P>The choice is yours <B>Summertime</B> and only yours. I know for a fact this is doable. Back when this all became painfully apparent to me, I would have never bet that we would be here, but we are. I know I for one am not going to throw away the happiness God has provided for me, or the love my husband has for me. I love this man with all of my heart and my soul is promised to God.<P>I have learned one thing from all of this, and that's that no human, man or woman, should ever have the kind of trust we had for our spouses. Simply because they are human and can fall into temptation, doing things that can hurt us. The only being that we can trust to continually love us regardless of who we are, or what we are doing is God! At least for me I think that was my hugest error...allowing my husband to become what only God should have been.<P><B>Now this has turned into one of my painfully long posts. I never intended to say more than my stats here until I read the whole thread. Then I just couldn't keep my fingers from typing. Please forgive me all?</B><P>I would like to thank <B>jcook</B> for starting this thread, as it has some great thoughts, ideas and advise. Everyone here has said some very profound statements and shared their deepest thoughts with us all. To all of you I thank you.<P>Just before I end this I have to say...<P><B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Nellie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>I am so sorry for your immense pain. Please know my thoughts and prayers are with you. I pray that you will be healed from your pain and that you will find true happiness and light in your life.<P>Okay now I am going to say goodnight. <P>Mega hugs to all of you. Wishing you all the best weekend you can have. <BR> <P><BR>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><BR><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 23, 2001).]

Nellie, I hear ya. It's an incredibly confusing and painful situation to be placed in, and it's scary to know that we may not always know who we think we know best. I have to tell you what a wonderful mother you are, you have my utmost respect.<P>Sometimes it feels like you're stuck between wanting to trust and knowing what trusting gets you, though.

Kayleigh,<P>You are correct - I used to be a reasonably trusting person, at least of people I knew well, and look where it got me.

Samantha, first of all your post was very kind. But my husband is a very weak man. Perhaps this is what the therapist is focusing on hoping it will be something I can forgive. I have learned to see the weakness but I am not able to forgive the behavior. <P>Someone wrote their husband was in a mode that he just didn't care about his family--did not mean to hurt them. My husband claims he did not care about himself anymore which is why he had an affair (with a stripper). It was his way of destroying himself, which it did. He has begged me to stay to help him recover himself. And I am until September 1. Perhaps I will leave sooner if my stomach keeps hurting so much. And I am keeping my fingers crossed that I won't stay longer.<P>You wrote how much you enjoy each other. My husband and I always enjoyed it each other. We still do. Our marriage looks as good as it always did. We are both the types of people who get along well with others. Neither of us has tempers, we've never been competitive with each other. We just loved each other and our children. We were a good, and I thought strong family. We raised two children who would be a pride to any parents. They are both self-supporting and in this day and age that alone is an accomplishment . We laugh, we date, we have lots of sex. But inside I am dying because as Medea said, the honesty is gone. I have to leave for me to recover. <P>Good luck to you and I am sorry I don't have the compassion inside me that you have. S.<P><BR>

Summertime,<P>May I make a few suggestions? I realize that you aren't religous. I also realize that your question earlier about the necessity of having God in your life in order to recover had a different meaning than the people here expected.<P>Let me start by saying that I am older than your H and you. I have been around more than a few blocks in my life and I have seen a great deal of life. Further, logic is my specialty, I am a scientist. So please understand what I am going to say is not meant to hurt you. Indeed I hope it causes you to pause and think.<P>First, you have indeed failed your H. You were not the perfect W and your marriage was not perfect. Logic dictates that you are seeing things through very distorted glasses. You failed your H, because you thought he was some sort of superman. You probably treated him as such, expecting him to take care of all of his own problems without your help. Indeed I will submit to you, that he could not bring to you his problems because you would have put him down and shamed him. You WANTED and NEEDED superman, so he was. <P>BUT the problem was/is he isn't superman. He was simply a man with no where to turn, certainly he could not turn to you, and it is difficult for a father to turn to his children with his internal failings. He had a mid-life crisis because he knew what you should have known; he was human and he needed your understanding and help.<P>You have failed him. Period and his assessment of you is proving to be right. I know what he was going through and had it not been for finding this site I might have easily of done what he did or simply announced to my W that I wanted a divorce before I did it. I doubt that either action would have been pain free. Indeed, I suspect now, although at the time I didn't think so,that simply announcing I was out of here and wanted a divorce would have been more painful. Complete and total rejection of her at every level. Just as you are about to do to your H.<P>I cannot think of a better way to simply level someone. <P>You H's actions are very "logical". The problem you have in seeing the logic of it, is:<P>1. You never knew him well enough, he had to be "Superman".<P>2. You have never failed in your life.<P>3. You never saw the pain he was in. <P>He had an affair with a stripper? Quite simply he wasn't trying to replace you, he was seeking relief from the pain and emptiness in his life. He was in pain and you never knew it, because you never looked, you never asked, and honestly you never cared. You needed "superman" and you got him. You were happy enough with that.<P>Summertime, marriage is for humans. It is a constant testing, learning, and growing exercise. Successful marriages require give and take, forgiveness, kindness, gentleness, and most of all the realization that your partner for life is not perfect. <P>For if we were perfect we would not need religion would we? We would not have to make vows. You trusted your H, because it was easier, than working on your marriage all of these years. I will say this and I will say it to all reading this, TRUST is often used as a crutch to coverup the fact that we have/are failing as spouses. We TRUST that although we ignor fundamental needs of our spouse that they won't react. THey won't hurt, they won't give up, they won't seek the healing balm from some place else.<P><B>WE ARE WRONG!!! </B> <P>Reread your marriage vows. It doesn't say I will trust my W/H. It doesn't say that trust should replace forgiveness, kindness, understanding,...etc.<P>Summertime you are wallowing in your despair. I suspect you are seriously depressed by all of this. Seek help. Try some medication. When your fog lifts you will see you are lying to your H even today. You are in this marriage "acting" happily married, but you are not. You H is trying because he believes there is hope for your marriage. You "know" differently and you are betraying him just as deeply as he betrayed you.<P>The difference?? He was "strong" enough to face his failure and do his best to correct them. You?? You are running from your's and lying about it the whole way.<P>Summertime, I have been very harsh with you. Not because I am mad at you or think less of you than others here. No! I see someone throwing away a good chunk of her life. I see someone who will never be happy again, but should be happy even now in the face of a terrible betrayal. I see someone lying to herself and her H, deceiving at the same level as her H.<P>Summertime, I see a very hurt human being. And just as others see more than you think they do, I see that you need help in order to find your happiness. If I knew you personally and could talk with you daily perhaps I might be able to reach you. But I cannot,so I suggest that you see a counselor. Perhaps see one with your H and disucss your marriage. Your pain and love can be healed. They are after all very much the same thing.<P>I will close by saying what I know means not so much to you, but it is my prayer for you.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

<B>Summertime</B><P>I can't tell you how glad I am that you gave yourself a timeline of September 1. That's a good thing, because it will allow you some time to come to some resolve and peace about this all. We all at one point or another hate the word "time" and "patience." I still do sometimes. If you stick to that time table you have set then when you do make your final decision you will know that you have tried as much as you could.<P>You mention counseling and that makes me pleased as well. I know my husband and I would have made our progress faster with some therapy from an uninvolved outside source.<P>The stomach pain your refer to is so familiar to me. I and many others know exactly what you are saying. I can only tell you that gradually it will dissipate. Occasionally it will come back and hit you again but not with the constant that it is now. The good news is even those times it does come back it will be a little bit less intense that it was the times before.<P>I posted on <B>HGBrawner's</B> thread to you too. I will repeat saying that you will be in my thoughts and prayers. No matter what your choice ends up being, you will survive. Thriving will totally depend on how you decide to take this journey. Either road can lead you to where you feel you want to be at this moment.<P>I guess my point is, that when you choose to leave, if you have done all you can, then you will be able to face yourself in the mirror and know you have given it your best. No one can be expected to do more than that.<P>As far as pitying yourself goes? I think everyone has done that here at one time or another. Although it may not be considered healthy by some, maybe it is a bit necessary for us. I have had several pity parties myself. They may not have made me feel better, but they minimally gave me the ability to see that I didn't want to stay in that place. They helped give me the drive to do what I had to do to move forward. Even though often it was at a snails pace. <P>I am still pulling for your healed marriage, but promise I and the others here on this board will support you no matter what your final choice is. If a few react negatively to you here, it is only their way of dealing with the very real issues in their lives.<P>Please dear lady, keep us updated and in touch. <P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 24, 2001).]

DD was 12/23/2000<P>I have been married to my wife for 12 years. We have two kids and we both work though we spend (and spent) plenty of time together because of our flexible schedules. My W's EA & PA lasted three months before I caught her (telephone recorder). The affair is finished now and has been for two months. It took her a couple weeks to come out of the fog, helped by the fact that OM was caught too (by me) and was a little stonger than my W.<P>I forgave her and she re-committed herself to me. She wants to forget about it and move forward as I do. Problem is I am still crushed, still damaged, still think about it hourly. I struggle with the deception and the fact that if I hadn't caught her she woudld most likely still be having the affair. I'm shocked by her ability to lie, her complete disregard for anyone except herself (affair was with husband of *her* good friend). I forgave her because I love her and want to move forward, but because of the negativity I feel, I still have resentment toward her but rarely show it. Sometimes when we are doing things together, like gardening, she looks at me and and I can see the love she has for me in her eyes, and I can see that she is happy. I'm happy too,to be with her, and I tell her so, but in my minds eye or voice I think to my self "you f'ing lying b'ch". I feel like Dr. Jeckle - Mr. Hyde.<P>To add fuel to the fire the OM and past friend (lives a block away), filed a restraining order (I'm a model citizen) against me for a few choice words I said to him . How ironic!! I feel like he should have to live in the bed he made for himself, live with his fear and insecurity and stop acting like the victom. Because I desparately want a good relationship with my W and want my life back I blame my negetivity on the restraing order, though my real feelings are based on the affair and their deception. I don't really care about the restraing order. My wife has expressed concern that I feel such hatred toward OM and it has been the source of most of our disagreement.<P>When I first discovered the affair I felt very competitive. I wanted my wife at any cost and was willing to do anything to keep her. At this date after I seemed to have "won" (I ponder that word) I feel cocky and arrogant and feel like telling her "go have him", "go be with him and see how far you get".<P>What I'm really leading up to is the fact that I feel that she commited the ultimate sin and instead of punishment, she has me, even better than before. The night before her work day I cook for her, a lunch, I get up with her @ 4am, I put her shoes on her while she does her hair, make them snug and tie them in double knots, I start her car 10 min. before she leaves for work, I leave *special* notes for her on her clipboard that she takes to work. And while it's true that she has done things for me (and OM!) I can't help but feel MOTED. I even picked out the color and colored her hair (yes, applied the solution too). Our relationship feels wonderful... But at my expense. Instead of being punished she is being pampered. It doesn't feel right.<P>I write this letter especially for Summertime. ST, I see some of my feelings are like yours. I too feel like I don't know my spouse. I too feel like, how can I look this person in the eye and feel what I am supposed to feel, "you are my partner in life and are looking out for my best interest". ST, despite the fact that everyone here tells you, or seems to imply, that you "want" your husband, that you are trying to find a way to forgive him. Maybe you, like I, wonder "what's up", "how did this happen", "is it my fault". It's not our fault. ST you are not alone. Some days I hate my wife. Some days I feel like I should leave. But like you, I stay. Why?? ST, your H's affairt lasted for years, my W's only for months. I sympathise wih your negative feelings and don't balme you for feeling like it's over. Had my W's affair lasted 15 years I feel like I can say "it would be over". Before discovery I used to ask myslef "will my wife ever be with someone else?". Ironically, I asked that question while my W was having her affair. Doesn't life deal an awfull deck sometimes? Maybe I knew, which is why I bought the telephone recording device.<P>Another irony: niehter my wife or I are spirtiual, we don't go to church. Remember DD was 12/23. On 12/9 I went to our local church and gave a check for $100 and asked that it be used to help families with christmas expenses, this is a first in my 32 years of life and I didn't tell my wife (right away) that I gave the donation. Soon after I catch my wife in A, a blessing or curse? Also ironic, OM goes to churse religiously. Makes me question the authenticity of church and god.

My goodness, I think this has turned into something quite different that jcook desired in the beginning. That's just the way it goes around here, though, one door leads to another and so on.... <P>it_makes_me_crazy,<BR>Christians are not immune to sin....we are just as human as those who don't have a relationship with Christ. Churches are not havens for saints, they are hospitals for sinners. God isn't some angry being just watching and waiting to slam unsuspecting people...what you seem to imply by your story of giving at Christmas and then finding out about the affair. His love and compassion cannot be "bought" through works or giving money. God is a benevolent Father who wants more than anything for each person on earth to come to a saving knowledge of Him....to have a relationship with Him that will give them the peace and hope they desire. <P>When anyone hardens their heart so much that they can't find empathy and compassion for their spouse, they are only hurting themselves. You and summertime have the free will to despise your spouses and leave them because of their betrayal....that is the choice every wounded spouse has. The problem is that the hatred and anger will go with you and you probably still won't find happiness. Your spouses probably will find happiness however....if they are truly remorseful and repentant, then they stand an excellent chance of rebuilding their lives and going on to a relationship where they will never be unfaithful again. Who is the loser in that scenario?<P>Now I am the one being harsh and I try <I>very</I> hard never to be harsh here....I remember too well being in a place where I wasn't very lovable and how I was treated by the people who were supposed to be loving and supportive to me. <P>IMMC, your feelings of frustration and anger and resentment are quite normal at the 6 week mark. You are still processing something that is old news to your wife. But I guarantee you that if you get outside of yourself long enough to really get honest with her and allow her the safety to get honest with you, you will find that she isn't doing as well as you think. The unfaithful spouse who is committed to healing their marriage is filled with self-loathing and self-doubt. They hide it quite well usually because it hurts too much to share it. They are also so intent on healing the marriage that they put on the best front they can to try to prove their love and commitment.<P>I urge <B>you</B> to get into counseling....to seek help on how to deal with your anger and resentment in a healthy, non-destructive way. I also urge you to do what you suggested to summertime....to see your failings in your marriage....not as a way to accept blame for your wife's affair but to see that you are on an equal playing field. There is no sin worse than another....every wrong you have both done to the other is equal and you both have acceptance of blame and forgiving to do.<P>It absolutely breaks my heart to see people in this terrible pain....I did experience it and I did experience many of the angry feelings you and summertime describe. The difference is that I didn't want to be that person...the one so filled with bitterness and hate that no one wanted to be around them. I wanted happiness and joy and forgiveness in my life. God gave me the ability to find those things and offer them to my husband and he offered them to me in return.<P>Face your feelings and deal with them....release yourself from them and release your wife from them too. It won't happen overnight, but having the desire to do it is the first step on that journey.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

JL, your post was so interesting, because just this morning I was thinking if I could just take some responsility for the affair, maybe I could understand and heal.<P>But I Can't. You are so wrong about me in your post. My husband was NEVER a superman. He was and is an emotionally challenged person. He came from a terrible family. Had no love and no support growing up. In truth he was an abandoned child. So I never expect great stuff from him in that sense. I was always there for him and tried my hardest to communicate. I tried very hard to always give him what he communicated to me he needed. <P>I have been suffering from depression for about six years now. I realized this and offered him a divorce since I know I was not the woman he married. He said over and over and over the depression was just a bump in the road and we'd get through it. We had been together over 25 years and we'd be okay. But what he did to get through it was have an affair. <P>Does my illness count as not being a good wife? I don't think so. I can't imagine how he'd be there for me if I came down with cancer! Well he won't be around for me to find. <P>This board has helped me to realize our marriage is over. It takes more energy than I have to recover from an affair. I just hope I can recover enough so that I can go on. <P>I won't be back anymore but thanks for all your thoughts and good wishes. S.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HGBrawner:<BR><B>My goodness, I think this has turned into something quite different that jcook desired in the beginning. That's just the way it goes around here, though, one door leads to another and so on.... <P>it_makes_me_crazy,<BR>Christians are not immune to sin....we are just as human as those who don't have a relationship with Christ. Churches are not havens for saints, they are hospitals for sinners. God isn't some angry being just watching and waiting to slam unsuspecting people...what you seem to imply by your story of giving at Christmas and then finding out about the affair. His love and compassion cannot be "bought" through works or giving money. God is a benevolent Father who wants more than anything for each person on earth to come to a saving knowledge of Him....to have a relationship with Him that will give them the peace and hope they desire. <P>When anyone hardens their heart so much that they can't find empathy and compassion for their spouse, they are only hurting themselves. You and summertime have the free will to despise your spouses and leave them because of their betrayal....that is the choice every wounded spouse has. The problem is that the hatred and anger will go with you and you probably still won't find happiness. Your spouses probably will find happiness however....if they are truly remorseful and repentant, then they stand an excellent chance of rebuilding their lives and going on to a relationship where they will never be unfaithful again. Who is the loser in that scenario?<P>Now I am the one being harsh and I try <I>very</I> hard never to be harsh here....I remember too well being in a place where I wasn't very lovable and how I was treated by the people who were supposed to be loving and supportive to me. <P>IMMC, your feelings of frustration and anger and resentment are quite normal at the 6 week mark. You are still processing something that is old news to your wife. But I guarantee you that if you get outside of yourself long enough to really get honest with her and allow her the safety to get honest with you, you will find that she isn't doing as well as you think. The unfaithful spouse who is committed to healing their marriage is filled with self-loathing and self-doubt. They hide it quite well usually because it hurts too much to share it. They are also so intent on healing the marriage that they put on the best front they can to try to prove their love and commitment.<P>I urge you</B> to get into counseling....to seek help on how to deal with your anger and resentment in a healthy, non-destructive way. I also urge you to do what you suggested to summertime....to see your failings in your marriage....not as a way to accept blame for your wife's affair but to see that you are on an equal playing field. There is no sin worse than another....every wrong you have both done to the other is equal and you both have acceptance of blame and forgiving to do.<P>It absolutely breaks my heart to see people in this terrible pain....I did experience it and I did experience many of the angry feelings you and summertime describe. The difference is that I didn't want to be that person...the one so filled with bitterness and hate that no one wanted to be around them. I wanted happiness and joy and forgiveness in my life. God gave me the ability to find those things and offer them to my husband and he offered them to me in return.<P>Face your feelings and deal with them....release yourself from them and release your wife from them too. It won't happen overnight, but having the desire to do it is the first step on that journey.<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

"God isn't some angry being just watching and waiting to slam unsuspecting people...what you seem to imply by your story of giving at Christmas and then finding out about the affair."<P>No, you're wrong. I was simply pointing out irony.<P><BR>"is love and compassion cannot be "bought" through works or giving money."<P>Again sorry. I wasn't buying anything. Only trying to share my (small) financial prosparity. Remember at the time I knew nothing of the affair.<P><BR>"God is a benevolent Father who wants more than anything for each person on earth to come to a saving knowledge of Him....to have a relationship with Him that will give them the peace and hope they desire."<P>"When anyone hardens their heart so much that they can't find empathy and compassion for their spouse, they are only hurting themselves. You and summertime have the free will to despise your spouses and leave them because of their betrayal...."<P>Let me remind you of something... I'm haven't hardened my heart as you put it. I'M HURT, I'VE BEEN TRASHED AND CHEATED ON!. You and your god may call it what you want but the pain I feel is just as real as the pain you would would feel had you been betrayed. You may call it "hardened" but my words are "hurt" and "devistation".<P>"that is the choice every wounded spouse has. The problem is that the hatred and anger will go with you and you probably still won't find happiness. Your spouses probably will find happiness however"<P>With this statement you bring a *very* sour tatse to my mouth... Sister. You see, I wasn't the one that brought betrayal to my family... Don't you get it? Of coarse I'm bitter, isn't that what god wanted me to be? Did god want me to to just "forget about it"? I think not. Which is why, in your book, I feel so terrible, because my wife commited one of the worst sins. My feelings and attitude have nothing to do with your god, they are a human feeling.<P>And what on gods green earth makes you think that my wife would find hapiness elsewhere? Go read the statitics and see how frequently an affair becomes a happy relationship... While you're at it go smoke another bole of the crack you're on.<P>"....if they are truly remorseful and repentant, then they stand an excellent chance of rebuilding their lives and going on to a relationship where they will never be unfaithful again. Who is the loser in that scenario?"<P>It's only been eight weeks... I can't wait to feel better... TRUST ME! Are you ensinuating that if I went to church and gave my life to your lord that I would feel better... FASTER?<P><BR>"IMMC, your feelings of frustration and anger and resentment are quite normal at the 6 week mark."<P>Who are you to make these stements? BTW - thanks for your comfort, I feel better already.<P>"You are still processing something that is old news to your wife. But I guarantee you that if you get outside of yourself long enough to really get honest with her and allow her the safety to get honest with you, you will find that she isn't doing as well as you think."<P>Let me tell you. W has confessed to me many ugly things (ugly to me), she has a free forum to tell me things and has. And yes, during hte immediate weeks following A, she confessed her hurt that her affair was over, her longing for OM, her sexual things she did, ETC. Is that enough for you? I don't force her to hide anything, like you think I do. In fact, at one point I held her, in bed, while she cried for her loss, and reminded her that I was there for her, despite her tears were for someone else.<P>You are so insensitive and I feel it's because I don't kneel before the same god you do. What a shame!<P><BR>" The unfaithful spouse who is committed to healing their marriage is filled with self-loathing and self-doubt. They hide it quite well usually because it hurts too much to share it."<P>Read above statement.<P><BR>"They are also so intent on healing the marriage that they put on the best front they can to try to prove their love and commitment."<P>How do you know so much about my wife?<P>"I urge <B>you</B> to get into counseling....to seek help on how to deal with your anger and resentment in a healthy, non-destructive way. I also urge you to do what you suggested to summertime....to see your failings in your marriage....not as a way to accept blame for your wife's affair but to see that you are on an equal playing field. There is no sin worse than another....every wrong you have both done to the other is equal and you both have acceptance of blame and forgiving to do."<P>Yes, I agree.<P>"It absolutely breaks my heart to see people in this terrible pain....I did experience it and I did experience many of the angry feelings you and summertime describe. The difference is that I didn't want to be that person...the one so filled with bitterness and hate that no one wanted to be around them. I wanted happiness and joy and forgiveness in my life. God gave me the ability to find those things and offer them to my husband and he offered them to me in return."<P>Different strokes... People deal with things on their own time table. You sound as though you're indifferent to any solution that you wouldn't do yourself. I think you need a lesson in DIVERSITY!!<P>

Hello,<P> Been married almost 20 years. H had A last year. He was going to leave me for the OW, but she turned him down. They had May 5th for her to decide if she was going to leave her 10 year live in which she had a 3 year affiar with him before he left his family for her. <P> Well my H was ready to go. I found out about the A March 18, 2000. He only got meaner and nastier to me. I lived through the torment of knowing about their deadline. It about killed me. He never left home. But he travels for a living so he was and is gone quite a bit. She would not leave her live in. They professed their love for each other on that day. They stayed in contact all last summer until Oct when I called her up!! So much for recovery. <P> I feel like leftover garbage. My H told me if she called he would say "sorry, you had your chance, and blew it." Now I am supposed to feel better about that??? We will nto make it. I can not handle this. To old for this crap. He also left his first wife the same way. The man needs help. 53 and needs to learn new tricks.<P>------------------<BR>Deb

HGBrawner:<P>I'm truly sorry for the bowl of crack reference I made. It was out of line and inapropriate.<P>I do however mean the other things I said and look forward to your reponse.