I just read your post on the end of WS behavior be classified as....I can understand how you feel. I have heard hours worth of tape of my H and his OP. In it I hear how he sounds when he says he loves her. It hurts to no end. He is with me now as you probably recall on my post Hidden Contact .. I wish I could offer you more support than just relating my experience but please know that you are in my thoughts and I can feel your pain.

Thanks so much for your support, I really need it right now. I didn't sleep last night and am back to not eating today, or sleeping, or working for that matter (though I did work from 5:30-10:30 this morning since I couldn't sleep). <P>I just reread your post. I think OW was probably the one who called me and said nothing last night so that I could hear him telling her he loved her especially after he let her know that I'd heard some already when he forgot to hang up. At one point, it sounded like she was dictating a letter to him - kind of a no contact letter for me! Fortunately, I don't have any of it on tape and, at my age, my memory's so bad, I'll probably forget most of the details soon, thank goodness.<P>How are things going now? Is your H maintaining no contact?

To the best of my knowledge he is. But my knowledge is questionable based upon past experience. I hate being in this position as I am sure everyone does. I occasionally record the conversations in the house to see what is going on since he sent the no contact letter. With him not working right now, and if I were him I would just go to a pay phone and use it versus the house or mobile. He has contacted her in the past using this technique while telling me no contact. But hopefully this is different - feels different. I just know that if he breaks no contact it is definately time for plan b and w/3 little kids not where I want to go. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

Thanks Z, I will also be hoping the best for you. A while ago my H was down at the pond on the other end of our property sitting in his truck hoping that I would come and talk to him, this according to a friend who spoke with him not too long ago. The friend says my H is feeling remorseful and hopes I still want to go on the cruise we're scheduled to go on, at Steve Harley's suggestion, which leaves on Sunday. I can't imagine being in a little cabin alone with him for 7 days right now. I am really angry at him. The friend just called back to tell me he's no longer there. He, the friend, is really encouraging me to talk to my H and leave tomorrow on our trip rather than waiting until Sunday. I think actually hearing their conversation got me way more upset than mere imaginings.

I am sure that it did. I know that it upset me greatly when I listened to their taped conversation. I now wish I had never heard them. It is one thing to imagine it and another thing to actually know and hear it. I thought I had gotten to where the pain couldnt get worse and then I heard the tape. Boy was I wrong. I can never understand how he could be telling me that he wanted things to work out and then going along telling her that he needed to come home to her and how he loved her and how they needed to get together with the kids. He tells me that he was telling the kids an entire different story and after confrounted with the tape he did send the no contact letter and to the best of my knowledge it has stopped. <P>About your trip, I dont know if I could go with him either. One thing is if you go, you know that it would goat the OP and the contact would be limited cause ship to shore calls are difficult. It might give you uninterupted time with him but...<P>My H is always remoseful after he gets caught. Why does it have to be after being caught red handed that the guilt comes? I wish it would come before he screws up so I dont have to forgive.

Hi Letstry and ZZZ:<P>Well, it can get worse....at least your WS didn't do it right in your face like mine did today. (See today's post "One for the Books...")<P><BR>I know how you feel...but please remember that in the throes of the "grand passion" wishy-washy behavior is to be expected. I found letters in the glove compartment and read all the gory details...love without end...passion unbelievable...true soulmates....everything. The end result of all this...over in five months...back at home in eight months (this was the first time). Years later<BR>OW back again...gone again...same result...but couldn't come home this time. So behavior even more bizarre.<P>Sometimes the problem is with the person and not the marriage...but keep fighting if that is what you want...time will tell you when it's time to quit...and only you can decide when. <P>But please know that this is not your fault...and not always something that you can fix...all you can do is work on yourself and be patience.<P><BR>I'll be checking on how you're doing and until then I'll keep you in my prayers.<P><BR>Faye<BR>

first an update: my H came home said he made a mistake and wants to work on our marriage and go on the cruise we had planned, leaving on Sunday. <P>buffy, I hear what you're saying. I haven't read your post yet, but will after I write this. Today my H and I had counseling with Steve Harley. My H felt like he was being chastised, but really he was just being asked a lot of uncomfortable questions. In fact he asked me why only he gets "yelled at," never me. I think my H has a hard time accepting responsibility for his actions and the reality of the commitment of marriage. He's focused lately on "being himself" which to me means being selfish and self-centered and doing whatever provides immediate gratification. He's told me recently how he doesn't want to grow up because, to him, it means giving up himself.

Dear LT,<P>Wow, many portions of your posts sound like my WS. As far as the cruise, my company sent all their managers in my dept on a 3 day cruise. First time for me. This was hard, most were taking their mates and were able to make arrangements back in Jan 2001. The cruise was set for March 2001. We were suppose to all go at the same time, but I opted out for the following weekend, did not want to be around the other couples. <P>H moved out end of Dec 2000, so in Jan 2001 when I needed to make arrangements for the cruise, I put down that I was taking my son (6 years old). The H said, he wanted to come home. In Feb, H went on a 3 day vacation to Yosemite with OW (to tell her good bye?). H stiffed me money for that month (H has stiffed me every month since he moved out, even before that but I am keeping count since Jan 2001. <P>Anyway, H came back from Yosemite wanting to reconcile. Why? Don't remember. H said he wanted time with me and the cruise would be a good idea (at least it was paid for). H promised he would not disappointment me. That in itself should have been a BIG warning sign. But I believed him. Well, I changed the tickets for a fee of $35.00. Less than 2 days later (the take H to OW's house attempt was performed), that same day I took H to the company travel agent's office and in front of H ask the agent to change the name back to my son. Told H this is his doing and he needed to pay for it. <P>This story continues. The rest came back from the trip. Not really a trip for kids, not much to do for them on the boat. OK, the town Encinada is a party town and not much for a little boy to see. After much debate, I changed the ticket again, this time taking a co-worker friend. She knew the language and had been there before. All in all that was the right decision. H & I would not have done well together on that ship for 3 days. Son & I would have had a rough time, our cabin was near the crew and a lot of noise at night. <P>So for me, it did not work out. But that need not be your case. 7 days, nice weather, nice place, if you are both able to relax etc., then it can be nice. I wish you well on this cruise, I wish it could have worked out for me & H. As it turned out, H watched our son while I went on the trip. My SIS and cousin checked up on H during my absence. I made 1 ship to shore call and you are right it cost $9.00 per min for the 1st 5 minutes and $12.00 per minute after. This was the largest part of my bill. <P>Let us know how the cruise turns out. <P>L.<P>

Orchid, Thanks for the encouragement. I remember your posts where you were going back and forth about who to take on your trip, but thanks for the update that you took a friend, since I don't remember reading your final decision. How are things between you and H now?<P>My H is very up for the cruise. I'm having a much harder time getting back to where I was at only 3 days ago. Knowing about the fog and the addictive nature of affairs, doesn't really make it any easier to handle his "slips." H admitted that seeing OW was not an accident but a planned encounter he thought he could handle but couldn't. The hard part for me to accept is that he says he wants to work on our marriage but that he doesn't trust himself to not slip again. He's right, he's a very impulsive person, that's what scares me.<BR>

LetSTry<BR>If you go on your cruise have a great time and let us know what happens.<P>I will be thinking about you.