t. <p>[This message has been edited by Rodger (edited May 01, 2001).]

Roger it is time for you to dro it. I was unfaithful to my fiacee and I can not sleep, eat or work thinking about the suffering that I have caused him. The only thing I wish if that he forgets everything and we get married. I am so scared of loosing him. I believe that he is as you are right now. He says that he just can stop thinking about me having sex with that guy.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rodger:<BR><B>I am trying hard each day to turn my mind off from my wife's affair. She has fully forgotten about it and just wants to move on. In her case it was just a two night stand in China. No more contact after this. No love involved, just sex. I should just accept it happened and nouse towonder about details or why. When a male and female are together in a room at night another part od the brain takes over, the reasoning process is turned off and the passion begins. Reasoning comes later the next day with either remorce or to continue on a bit more. So I am thinking to get involved in a bunch of activities to get my mind totaly off this. That would be he most healthy thing. My mind is fighting my mind. One part wants to just ask and ask, The other part says no, it does no good to ask, just drop it. If the wife is happy now, why make her unhappy by bringing up the subject? Maybe one reason is to try to prevent a repeat of the events that happened. But I don't know if anything can guarantee this. Maybe one has to just believe in trust and whatever happens happens. If you partner has a tendency to stray then this is very difficult. Controls do not help. I think some kind of very high moral standards need to be developed so that loyalty to the husband or wife is always number one in any couples mind. Of course I understand if one partner is not a good marriage partner then they share in part of the blame of what happened? In the case of long marriages that slowly deteriorate I can see this. In my case the marriage didn't even get started yet. We were newly married. My wife was in China and had just two weeks to go before coming here when the affair happened. She said at first she just could not control her urge. Later she said the story was she could not refuse a policeman that helped her brother. She said there was no love, no further contact now, only two occasions of sex. Baffles me. I hate my mind thinking about this all day long. At night I pretend that it is no longer on my mind and then my wife is happy. I hope sometime it will gradually erase from my mind. My wife said that she knows one couple where the husband strayed. The marriage kept together but for 10 years the wife was angry at the husband. After 20 years the wife still thought about it a little. But she did not talk about it with the husband. She kept the feelings to herself but mentioned it to her oldest daughter. So this lady also suffered mentally I can see but did everything not to show it. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Thanks Chulo. Yes I agree. I think I am doing pretty good because it has only been a few weeks so far. Intellectually you are right. Maybe emotionally it takes longer. Probably both husband and wife have to have patience with each other. I can see that dwelling on this will drive the other person away because they have no other choice.

Rodger<BR>I would be willing to guess that your wife hasn't successfully forgotten her affair. If the unfaithful spouse is truly remorseful, then they don't just forget what they've done. What happens is that they just are better able to handle the thoughts and feelings. After all this is old news to them...they lived it so they don't have any questions that need answering.<P>I would also have to dispute your belief that the wounded spouse shares any blame for an affair or that it is more understandable in a long-term marriage. I agree that both spouses always share blame when there are problems in the marriage....it takes two to have problems. But the responsibility stops there. Only the unfaithful spouse bears blame for the choice to be unfaithful. There are always better ways to deal with their own problems and feelings. <P>As for long term marriages....we may actually have a little bit better chance of restoration after an affair. We have a history together and a foundation to build on that isn't always present in shorter marriages. This doesn't mean shorter marriages can't be restored, just that those of us who have been at it longer may have a few advantages. It is true that longer marriages sometimes suffer from drifting and even boredom...this is dangerous for both spouses and very sad. Most of us put more effort into maintaining our cars and yards than we do our marriages....this must change no matter whether there is an affair or not.<P>From my own personal experience I can tell you that talking about the affair...over and over again...is part of what healed my marriage. It allowed me to deal with all the anger and pain I had and it took away any possibility of secrecy or remaining feelings my husband might have had. It helped him to see the affair and the ow in a very clear light. This is what will help prevent another affair in the future. But more than that, the level of communication we have now, the commitment we have to each other, and our total reliance on God will protect us. We are vigilant...more so now than before....but we are protecting each other, not controlling each other.<P>This is a hard journey, but it is worth it. Don't make assumptions about what your wife is dealing with. Find healthy ways to communicate about this and build something strong for the future.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31<p>[This message has been edited by HGBrawner (edited March 29, 2001).]

Dear Roger,<P>Remorse and repentance mean acknowledgement. Acknowledgement means admittance. One does not forget in this stage. In this stage one deals with it faces reality and goes on. This stage also can help you have closure and see that truth and honesty is in your marriage. <P>Those are my thoughts. <P>L.

I told my wife today (from China) if the explanation of why is long, then the husband's thinking will be short. But if the explanation of why it happened is short, then the husband's thinking will be long. I was just told to quite thinking and thinking constantly. She said the details are not important. She said it happened. She was bad. And now let's move one and quite going back to it. She said let's just look towards a happy future.

Rodger, you need to tell your wife that when one walks into the future with emotional baggage from the past, the baggage will weigh on you until you are too tired and frustrated for your future to be happy. You need to both deal with it.<P>Personally, my recommendation would be counseling. I mentioned this before: YOU get some counseling, even if she will not.<P>Also, your wife needs to understand that by being dismissive about something that truly hurts you so much, she is being disrespectful of your feelings. Does she WANT to be disrespectful of you? She needs to know that by saying "let's just move on" that she is denying you the right to heal from a deep hurt in the most successful manner possible. Does she truly WANT you to go unhealed?<P>The advice for you to "drop it" is very wrong. While I believe that dwelling on something bad is not healthy, I also believe that not dealing with emotional issues is also not healthy. Dealing with them does NOT mean "move on" without processing all of the emotions involved. It would be better if your wife would acknowledge not just that she did something bad, but that she hurt you very deeply in the process.<P>I hope that you can find some peace.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Rodger it has been over 3 years for me. My wife was involved with a whole bunch of cybersex and then had 2 one night stands. Not a day goes by that I don't picture her and them going at it. She was looking for love and affection while they were looking for nothing more than a willing receptacles for their semen. She never found the love and affection she needed but these guys got their jollies and everybody went there separate ways. <P>I have absolutely no doubt that I will live with those ugly visions until the day I die. I don't think women know what that does to a man anymore than a man knows how a woman feels when her man cheats on her. <BR>As far as knowing details, it won't solve your problem cuz no matter what she tells you you will probably want to know more.<P>Good luck on your recovery

I want to chime in with NeverAgain. You never forget.<P>My ex-H's first affairs were 14 years ago. I "thought" I'd forgotten and moved on, but I hadn't.<P>During the 19th year of our marriage, I had an affair. I never forgot that either. Neither did he. <P>YOU NEVER FORGET.<P>The trick is to move forward, find forgiveness... and one way to do that is to have the details, regain the trust, and face reality.<P>You can't do that, because she won't allow it - NOW. Maybe later... but not now.<P>I feel for you. Clearly you want to work at your marriage! I'm sure you've been told over and over again, but I'll say it again - PLAN A her back into the marriage. Let her know it's safe to talk to you. I'm not the queen of Plan A at all... there's NSR (Jim) and Lostva and K to do that... Look for posts by them. That should help you!!!!<P>Best wishes.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Yes, my wife has told me that no matter what she says, I always seem to have more questions. She said probably it would have been better if she told me nothing. I told her no that's the worst thing because then I have to try to guess at all the details and my mind would go wild. In my case my wife's stories changed a lot. When I say yesterday you said this she just tells me she forgot the details. Then she reminds me of some occasions when I also forgot things I should have remembered. At first my wife said the dates were in November. Then she changed her mind and said it was December. At first she said the time was 8:00 on both days. Then she said 1:00 in the morning the first day and 8:00 the next. Now she says 1:00am the first day and 6:00pm the next day. Also the details of the actual encounter changed. When confronted with the conflicts she is not embarrassed at all. Maybe it is out language and culture problem or the details just don't matter to her at all. I told her 100% honesty is important. She agreed that this is good. I said I would like to understand all this. She asked Why? I said well I need to understand if your thinking is still the same as it was in China? She said now she is not in China and the situationis different. She said it is up to me if I want a long marriage or a short marriage. Essentially it is take her or leave her. She said which one is better? For me I want to take her. So it looks like I just have to swallow my questions and forget trying to dwell on all this. My wife said she was a very respectable high class woman. She was never a bad woman and also now is not a bad woman. I told her that this is what I thought also and that's why I married her. But I said a high class woman would not do what you did. I said if your parents knew what you did would they still have the same high opinion of you? She did not answer but just said stop your thinking, it really does not help at all. She said it will only give you grey hair and make your brain go crazy. She said just get involved in activities and get your mind off all this, that is the best thing for you.

Roger,<P>Respect is a requirement in the Oriental culture. I do not hear that word or suggestion in your recap of your wife's responses. This concerns me. Also the fact that your wife is asking do you want a long or short marriage sounds like she can take it either way.<P>Does she love you? You don't have to answer me, just something to make you think. I am oriental. If that happened to me, I would be doing whatever it takes to gain my husband's forgiveness, not telling him to get over it. <P>Sounds like your wife is trying to use westernized reasoning to justify something. You don't seem to be buying that. Neither would I. <P>High class woman does not always mean a morally upright one. In the oriental culture it generally means rich not neccesarily virtuous. Make sure she is not misleading you with terminology and will someday use it against you. <P>Roger, I do not know your wife and efforts to keep your marriage will mean dedication and an honest relationship on both parts. <P>Just my 2 cents.<BR>L.

Rodger,<P>I have emailed you my thoughts this morning.<P>Orchid,<P>This 'oriental thinking' of Rodger's wife is very in keeping with how the soceity works in China in the recent years. It is not Westernized. It is unique. Unfortunately, in China, marriage is not as holy as we recognize it to be in this part of the world. Attachement to one's spouse is not as strong as here as well. I am not sure I can fully explain it here.<P>The respect and the way of thinking that you know and I know belong in an era long past. <P>EE

Dear EE,<P>Thank you for correcting my thinking. I am 2nd generation born here in the states. I guess my thought pattern is giving away my age. How sad the family values are changing all over the world. Once a person could be proud that their culture extolled family pride and values now they are in the dumps like everyone else. You know that is how the Roman empire fell, lack of family honor. How sad. <P>L.

Dear Orchid,<P>I, too am second generation but had the unfortunate experience of knowing many people like that. In many ways the old thinking is preserved in our second generations because it did not 'grow' with the times in China. <P>I really can't judge them because society dictates how you behave. To them, this is the way to survival. They don't know anything else therefore, this way of thinking is correct because it is common practice.<P>I have heard of my stories that will send chills down your spine.<P>Didn't mean to come across a correcting you. This thread just really doing a 'good' trigger for me. Sorry if I came across harsh.<P><BR>EE

Dear EE,<P>I am on my lunch so this reply is coming back rather quickly. You were not harsh. I appreciate when I am shown the correct way of either doing things or how to view items properly. <P>Funny how so much values can be lost from generation to generation. I really appreciate what I learned from my parents, grandmothers and other wise persons. Some good and some bad, I have learned to take the good and discard the bad. Why is that so hard for people to do now? Are future generations going brain dead? If so, I fear for the minds of our children. The examples they see on TV or real life (WS's, OPs, etc.) is soo bad. This is no excuse using the rule, do to others before they do to you. That is not the 'golden rule'. <P>Take care and thanks you are truly a friend. Don't stop. <P>L.

Dear Orchid,<P>Thanks! I read some of your other posts and kind of know where you are now. Seems like you have got it right. Keep going, everything will be better in time.<P>Good luck.<P>EE