My H was abandoned by natural father as well. Actually older siblings had contact with father but father said my H was the result of an affair he thinks my H's mom had. She did not have an affair and assures us that if she could say that my H was not the natural child of her ex H she would love it. He is not a good person. <BR>My H and I are doing very well. It is so painful though and sometimes I want to give up. The very act that they know would have caused them a great deal of personal pain (us cheating) is whay they end up doing to us. It is very difficult to understand.<BR>My H has changed 100% too. Now we both have walls up. His are coming down after years of standing firm, but mine are new and fresh. I guard them carefully so as not to be hurt again. We have to chip away at them slowly and steadily, but they will always be there.....<BR>I'm so glad you and your w are doing well. Please keep me posted on your progress. I would love to hear from your wife to get her perspective. I need to understand what has happened. Why they could do it. How they could hurt the one they love the most. One hard part for me is that my H was the ONLY person that I did trust in the world. He has let me down terribly. I feel very alone now. It doesn't help that he is out of the country on business for several months.... <BR>How could they treat us exactly the same way they were treated?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cl:<BR><B><BR>Will they lust for the remainder of their lifes? Hmmmm, my guess is yes they will. I am not sure lusting is such a bad thing-it is what one does with the feelings that can be bad in a marriage. If one can turn those lusty feelings into fantasies with their spouse, then it could enhance the marriage. My h states he does not want others anymore, and I have chosen to believe it based on what he says and his actions.<BR>Think we need to ask lth abt the lust! I have a feeling that is a question he can help us with.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I too belive fantasy is good - especially if you can use it in your marriage. As for lust equating to want - for me, I have not pursued a woman that I "lusted" for. My one night stands happened, in most cases, with total strangers, in different countries after a night of heavy drinking.<P>I too told my wife that I don't want other women and I truly mean that. But I also know that I would have to keep myself out of any bad situations - ones that I know in the past have led to sex. Otherwise I am liable to do it again.<P>I think I will always fantasize about women, at least I hope I do, - I have to believe that all men do. I hope that doesn't make me sound bad because I don't find it unhealthy - as long as it is not turned into bad actions.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>Do you think you will ever be able to go into the situations where you would have found yourself cheating a few yrs ago? Overseas for 6 mos, rough week, finally can go to town, drink with everyone and just have a great time----without having sex? Or will you always be wanting it? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is how I mostly find myself. I almost always go out without incident. But, I know that if I don't take steps to ensure that I won't get into trouble (usually I have somebody looking out for me - keeping me pointed in the right moral directions). But when I have not had that person, combined with the wrong circumstances - then I screwed up and messed around. I don't go out wanting it - at least not consciously. But if I am totally honest with myself - once a few drinks get poured then I think a part of me takes over that does want sex - with anyone - which means if my wife were there it would be her.<P>I think maybe I am complicated. I don't go out to cheat. It happens - I saw another post which I think deals with this - saying it doesn't just happen. Certainly we SC take the steps to get the action going, but unlike affairs, the one night stand can just happen.<P>For me to stay out of trouble I have to do what works for me - like your H has to do what works for him. He has to avoid eye contact with other W, whereas I have to avoid putting myself in the situation - or I have to have somebody looking out for me. But that is the important thing for the SC, doing what works for us to keep from doing it again.<P>Broken,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>cl and lessthanhonorable,<BR>We have unrooted a deep issue that I believe was the catalyst for my H 'serial cheating'.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hope I understand this as refering to my Ws actions, rather than mine. I didn't do what I did for anything my wife did. I got into trouble all on my own.<P>But I believe my actions gave my W a reason to have her PA - and I believe a bit of an EA. Though, I hold hope that were it not for my actions that she would have not done it. While I may not have any right to feel jealous - her PA really upsets me. So, I can only guess what she must feel.<P>Are any of you in the similar situation as me, where both you and your S cheated? I know that there is really no difference - cheating is cheating. But, inside, I do think that an EA is worse - and harder to overcome, than a one night stand with no emotions. I believe that I have read as much in some of the literature I have read.<P>I told my W that I would much rather she have had sex with a total stranger with no emotions attached to the sex. I believe taht. I can understand that kind of A, because I had the same type. I know I have no feelings for any of the OW and that my love is only for my W. I could understand her wanting to experience another lover - I was her first and only up to her EA / PA. Heck, I can't imagine going through life only knowing one lover. As I said earlier, sex with new people is very exciting. And while I would like to think - for my ego's sake - that I would be the best partner she ever had, I know that we all effect each other in different ways - not necessarily better.<P>I ramble. Maybe I am fooling myself. But, I am pretty sure I would not feel as bad about her A if there was no emotion attached. It might make me feel that she is still not interested in him and might make the feelings that I want to snoop to find out if she is still in contact. I told her to not contact him in anyway - but I was being controlling. I don't get that. I believe they have kept in touch - but I am overseas, and have no way of checking - so why worry.<P>Sorry this is so long. I have been in an exercise the past few days and wanted to answer your posts and to get a few things out there.<P>Thanks all,<P>lth<BR><p>[This message has been edited by lessthanhonorable (edited April 10, 2001).]

To cl....<P>Have you read the book the Celestine Prophecy? I asked this question a while back on the Other Topics section and there are things in that book which explain families and a host of other issues which I find extremely profound.<BR>It was just a thought :-)<BR>C1

HI All,<BR>Sorry to be so late in replying...I have been out of town without my laptop. <P>LTH, thank you so much! I appreciate your explanations and candid answers to my questions. I have often wanted to talk to someone other than my h abt this and have never met anyone that shares the thoughts he has tried to express. <BR>Since you are being so open, let me ask you abt respect? I struggle with this but I realize that it is my interpretation of the definition of respect. How could h possibly have respect for me if he is screwing so many other women? <BR>No, I have not had an EA or a PA. It is simply not my thing. Both h and I had other lovers prior to marriage, though I was more sexually experienced than he was.<P>Broken and David, I will have to give the family issues some more thought. My h had/has a dysfunctional family. Lots of infidelity, divorce, etc. <P>Concerned, yes I read the book but it was some time ago. Maybe need to take another look? Thanks! I did enjoy it when I read it. <BR>cl<BR>(ps, nice to be home again!)

Welcome back cl,<BR>check out the thread by chazbutler 'why do I look at women/porn'. Let me know what you think.

All you sex addicts and their unfortunate spouses, The following is an excerpt from "Life Strategies; Doing What Works, Doing What Matters" by Phillip C. McGraw, Ph.D. Reading this really had an effect on me. I think the answers the the questions he asked must be answered for the recovering addict. Please let me know what you think. Side note: All of you who consider yourselves serial cheaters or sex addicts, don't delude yourself into thinking that you can go into a bar. lth talks about avoiding situations he knows he may be suseptible in. There is no reason for a married man or woman, sex addict, serial cheater, or simple adulterer to be in a bar. period. Give it some thought.<P>"<BR>.... did you notice a pattern in their lives that is present in your own? All were doing things that on some level they did not want to do. All were doing things with a conscious awareness that negative and unwanted consequences, for themselves and other, were sure to occur. Nonetheless, they persisted in their undesirable behavior, just as you persist in yours. Is it possible that at some level, their behavior was working, in that it was generating payoffs for them?<BR> By now it should be exceedingly clear that the behavior you choose created the results you get. If you repeat the behavior, then by definition, those results must be desirable, or you wouldn't behave that way over and over. Conversely, if you do not repeat the behavior, then the result is not desirable. In other words, there is nothing in it for you. Imagine touching a hot stove: definite undesirable result; thus, no repetition. It should be equally clear, then, that when you change behavior, you change the results. If you really do "get" that, you now know that if you do different, you will have different. Thus, you've taken a huge step toward changing your life.<BR> Knowing what you need to do and knowing how to do it are two very different things. Unfortunately, some behavior, often that which we most hate and want to eliminate, is the very one that stubbornly continues to occur. But how could that be? Why would you, as a free-thinking, rational human being, repeatedly do what you hate and that causes you such pain? It is an understatement to say that that defies logic. Surely no rational person would do what they don’t want to do. Surely, no rational person would behave in a way that generated results that they do not want or keep them from getting results they do want. But no matter how rational and logical you may think you are, you know that that’s exactly what you do.<BR> Understanding how to eliminate this seemingly illogical behavior is critical to improving your life. And you can do it through at least two important methods: You can start behaving in the positive ways necessary to have what you want—or just as importantly, stop behaving in ways that interfere with your having what you want. You cannot eliminate your negative behavior without understanding why you do it to begin with. Only then will you know what buttons to push to get the desired change in your own behavior or that of others. <BR> You already know that your behavior creates results. What you may not know is that those results, which affect you and the choices you make, occur at different levels of awareness and that the results can take many different forms, some subtle and powerful. <BR> This is particularly relevant to pattern behavior. When behavior becomes almost automatic, you stop paying attention to or evaluating the cause-and-effect relationships in the conduct. You probably recognize situations in your life when you seem to go on automatic pilot, not really thinking through a given situation as you reactively go through it. The truth is, the behavior only seems illogical. The truth is, you don’t and won’t behave in ways that reap only negative, unwanted results.<BR> You mindlessly do these things because at some level, you perceive that it works for you. By “works for you,” I mean you get some kind of payoff for performing the seemingly undesirable acts. And as you will see, this formula holds true even if at some other, perhaps more conscious or apparent level, you recognize that the behavior in question isn’t working for you; you may even see that it creates pain. Yet based on results, you are getting some sort of payoff, or you wouldn’t do what you do or accept what you accept. A simple example is overeating. At a conscious, rational level, you know it is counterproductive, but at some other level, it is rewarding you enough to maintain the overeating. So, based on results, since people only do what works, overeating must work for you in some way.<BR> If you did not perceive the behavior in question to serve some purpose, to generate some value to you, you would not do it, plain and simple. You must apply this truth at the most literal level. If you are engaging in some behavior or pattern of behavior, you must assume that no matter how strange or illogical it may seem, you are engaging in it in order to create some result that you want. Whether you want to want it or not, you do.<BR> As you probably know, this concept of payoff is a crucial ingredient in shaping all sorts of behavior; It’s a central concept in the way we train animals. Understand that when I say it “works”, I don’t mean that behavior-reward connection is necessarily healthy. I only say that you are willing to work to get it, healthy or otherwise.<BR> ……. The harder part is identifying what the actual payoffs are in your own life, so that you can begin to understand and control the cause-and-effect connections in your behavior. If you want to stop behaving in a certain way, you must “stop paying yourself off” for doing it. <BR> Examples of payoffs:<BR>Self-punishment<BR>Distorted self-importance<BR>Vindictiveness<BR>Acceptance<BR>Approval<BR>Praise<BR>Love<BR>Companionship<BR>Greed<BR>Punishment<BR>Fulfillment<BR>Fear of rejection<BR>Instant gratification<BR>Physically intimidating another or being physically dominated<BR>Needing approval of others<BR>Social acceptance<P> These payoffs act powerfully to condition you to repeat the behaviors that bring them about. All of these payoffs are at work in almost everyone’s lives. As you seek to understand why you act in certain ways look hard and honestly at what you are getting out of what you are doing. In some cases, the payoff will be obvious; in others, you’ll have to do some digging. All of these payoffs whether considered healthy or unhealthy can become toxic in the extreme.<BR> Be aware that you can be blind to the impact of your payoff system. The unfortunate fact is that the power of a payoff can support even behavior that you do not consciously want.<BR> To analyze why you act a certain way, you have to determine the payoffs that elicit and sustain the behavior. The payoffs may be apparent; they may not be apparent. The payoffs may be healthy results, or sick and even disgusting results, and in some form that they perceive to be positive. So you’ve got to devote a lot of serious thought, first, to identifying those behaviors, thoughts, or choices that you want to eliminate. Then ask yourself, “What am I getting out of this? What is my payoff, healthy or otherwise?” Once you have identified the sustaining results, you can target those consequences for change. <BR> You’ve got to be getting a significant payoff for your negative behavior, or you would not be doing it. The thought that a certain pattern of behavior could be working for you is so despicable that you will behave as if functionally blind to avoid seeing it. That of course, means it will never get solved. This is perhaps your greatest danger.<BR> Payoffs, particularly those that relieve or allow you to avoid serious pain, or minimize the fear and anxiety of potential pain, can be as addictive as the most powerful narcotic. Thus, fear of the possible outcome becomes the most powerful agent of all. I say this to put you on serious alert. If you are being controlled in this way, such fear can imprison you and ruin your life. The payoff of escaping the pain of dealing with the problem can so seduce you; you can be so dominated by the fear of what might be, that you walk through your life in a zombielike state, grateful for the numbness. I want you to realize that you may be so controlled by payoffs that you’re being overwhelmed by them. <BR> As complex as the web of addictive payoffs can be, you do have a “North Star” to guide you, to keep you focused on what is really happening. The “North Star” that you must keep uppermost in your thinking is:;<BR> Regardless of the logic, if I am repeatedly doing whatever it is that I am doing, I am getting a payoff. I will not delude myself by thinking it is not so. If I search, I will find the payoff, because it is there. I am not getting paid off for some of my patterns of behavior; I am getting paid off for all of them, every time. I am not an exception, because there is not exception. <BR> If you never take your eye off that truth, you can continue to close in on the answer. Find the payoff, and you can consciously unplug from it. Fail to identify it, and you are like a puppet on a string, being controlled by some unknown person or thing. <BR>"

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm so glad you are all in here sharing. This is exactly what I've been looking for and this is just what I've experienced in my marriage. <P>I have some questions for you, LTH, but let me give you some of my history first. My H is a serial cheater. We've been married for almost 11 years. Right out of the gate our marriage faced some unusual challenges. His mother died (of AIDS -- from his cheating step-dad) his step-dad died, we moved half-way across the country (back to his home town) where I had no support system and he had no desire to be. My mother died, war broke out back home (for me) and I lost many family members. (Meanwhile many other family members stateside are dying -- grandparents, sisters, aunts, baby nephew) My H. enters deep depression --he completely shuts me out of his life and carries on as though he's a single man again. He was out every night after work. Being a musician, he was also out every night after practice and gigs. I'm alone at home with two small children, more or less fending for myself. All he seems to want from me is sex, without offering anything in return. I of course resent any moves he makes towards me and we have many, many arguments about our lives and what a mess they are. I began to suspect affairs about six years ago -- he'd always been a flirt, and before we got together, had many one-night-stands. He reacted in the typical way -- denial, anger, telling me I'm insane, etc. I was very isolated in a small nearly suburban neighborhood, didn't drive (grew up in large city) and he wasn't introducing me to any of his friends from his childhood -- remember, he grew up here. So I begged for change, to move into town, I started taking classes at the local Comm. College, and I started working more outside the home. While my mom was dying, I became unexpectedly pregnant with baby #3 and was devestated -- all of my self-improvement plans went out the window. And I had to start caring for my teenage brother at that point since our mom was too sick to deal with him --he came to live with us. As for our relationship at this time, I was sure that it wouldn't last. H. was not meeting any of my emotional needs and he was not being a provider. He worked as little as possible, we were often during my pregnancy behind in rent and bills, even living off of food stamps for a while -- no, I didn't feel guilty about it at the time since I already had two children to feed and very little help from him. After baby #3 came along, I enrolled in school full time and went back to work full time. I figured that he wasn't going to do anything about bettering our lives so I had to. A few quarters into it I realised a degree was out of the question so I buckled down and fell into my job. No great career but a good job that kept a roof over our heads and food on the table. HE floated from job to job, still went to regular rehearsals, still played music on weekends, still spent money on gear and the resentments grew and grew. Eventually, he admitted to one "indiscretion" -- things had really gotten bad between us. This sent me reeling, thinking that here I was supporting him all of this time, working at home and away from home, giving him time to pursue his dream, and he admits to one indiscretion. I didn't have to dig too far to find one more -- a woman vaguely within out circle of friends, that other friends then told me about. I took the kids and moved into town, and he moved not far from where we live now. I sensed all along that there were more women, but he insisted that I was "insane", looking for demons, imagining things. But he really wanted to re-build this relationship and in a perverse way, so did I. But I couldn't do it without knowing everything, I needed truth and I needed to know where I stood. He told me about two months ago that he had had a total of six "episodes", all one-night-stands. But here's the thing. One he met at a bar, while drunk. Two he picked up at the hotel where he worked. One worked with him at the hotel. One was at a show that his band played and one was at the coffee shop where he worked last year. So there is no pattern. They flirt, they plan to meet, in 5/6 of these instances, it happened THAT DAY. LTH, you avoid the bars. What does he avoid? Eye contact with anyone? I feel like the opportunity, for him, is whereever he makes it. He SWEARS that since things were so wrong between us, he just took whatever opportunity arose at the right time. That he'd never do it again, after all the pain he's caused. Part of me believes him, part of me wonders if he just needs someone to take care of him, as I have so obviously been willing to do these ten years with my only payback being his infidelity. <P><BR>So why am I still hanging in there? The children miss "family life" terribly, even though it was far less than ideal. I do love him in many ways. We are just about the only family either one of us has left. Though I have not forgiven him for the years of abandonment and deliberate hurt, I do see how his actions spurred my reactions which caused more negative reactions on his part, and so on... There was SO much turmoil in our lives in the last ten years! But again, life is full of sadness and death and dissapointment and if you have to cheat on your spouse to get through it once, what happens when the next wave hits? <P>As for the positive changes he's made, he has through our year-long discussion of our lives and his infidelities, apologized repeatedly, accepted blame for being the one to set this in motion. He started a full-time job in July of last year and is still there! He's paid regular child-support even though we aren't legally separated -- this is more money than I've ever had from him consistently. <P>So now what? How do I know that he's for real? Why do I want him back after all of the nasty things he's done? What do I do with this HUGE part of my self-esteem that's been buried by years of living with this man-child? And how do I tell my friends, who were all SO, SO supportive and helpful in helping me get away from him, that I may actually want to work things out? Any help out there? <P>Thank you again for all of your postings. It's such a HUGE help, huge relief to feel like I'm not alone!<P>Snowwhite

SITUATIONS TO AVOID??<BR>I suspect that my WS suffers from a serial cheater syndrome, so to speak. One of the replies from a WS, admitted serial cheater, talks about Dr. Haley's "Situations to Avoid" -- Can anyone re-create these, or direct me -- I have searched but coannot find?<BR>Thanks!<BR>HH

<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Pahakissa1 (edited April 20, 2001).]

Aggghhhhhhhhhhh, hate aol! I just wrote a gerat post and it got zapped again.<BR>Short version........<BR>Broken, i read chaz's post and not sure I agree with all. I would like to think that humans have some control over the primal instincts! I appreciate what he says and the insightfulway he writes. A couple books that I have enjoyed reading abt womens early conditioning are The Chalice and The Blade and The Dance of Deception. <BR>David's wife and your husband have much in common. More on that tomorrow.<BR>WOW-what a great article! What is the thought process of the serial cheater that makes them need this? They do love their spouses-that is rarely in question. They seldom cite there are issues within the marriage.<BR>Welcome to MB Snowhite. Nice to see you here getting some help for your marriage. Your h has to want to stop-you cannot do it for him. You can be there for him, to support him, but he has to do the work to heal. He has to identify what makes him do this. What is missing in the life of the serial cheater? <BR>My h knows that there are factors that contribute to his cheating. Right now he is in europe. For all I know he is screwing someone else while I type this! But he wants the change in his life. He wants to make the marriage work, so I trust that he will remain faithful. The 12 step programs encourage spouses to support the cheater, even with slipups. But like David, I have the sero tolerance policy. That is for me-not for him. I know I cannot go thru this forever-there are no repeats in this cheating anymore and he knows he has to succeed to stay married.<BR>I plan a him to death, but at the same time, I like to think I have acheived some balance where I can recognize that I still need to be me. <BR>Hugs to all!!!!! aloha, cl

Thank you for the warm welcome, cl. <P>I was in such a hurry to blurt my story out in my first posting that I missed a few important details. H. swears he will never cheat again, that the stress and unhappiness all around us during our marriage was the major contributing factor. He fell into a depression, and so did I, compounded by baby blues. Year 4-5 he started drinking heavily and began his serial cheating. Says he felt "dead" after each event -- there were 6 according to last confesion -- and swore to himself that it would never happen again. <P>Of course, I "knew" what was going on and confronted him several times. His denial and lies pushed me farther away and I just kept on hurting and resenting him. There were a few times, when he was just drunk enough, that he came very very close to telling me the truth but just sort of stood there, looking pathetically sad and hurt and never did. When he finally admitted, I felt like I was at the end of my rope. I'd been financially and emotionally supporting him and our children pretty much alone for five, six years. I left with the children.<P>This is where my story differs from most here, maybe because it's been nearly a year since dday 1 and I'm only just now connecting to other betrayed spouses. He moved out of our house last July and the kids and I moved into a new place in August. I had a lot of support from friends and family -- his sister, my brother, our friends. From the day I found out he has been begging for a reconcilliation. I have refused. Too hurt, too battered, too happy to not have to do everything for him anymore. <BR>I guess I was an enabler all the way. <P>But I'm not sure that this is how it's supposed to end. Neither one of us were able to put our heart and soul into our marriage. I see the many mistakes we both made, but yes, mostly HE made. He admits to this freely and takes full responsibility for where we are today. <P>Still, with so much at stake, I'm afraid to let him back in and feel this hurt start all over again. I know that many people here have that same fear. How to go on and not be afraid of your own shadow. I still cry three or four days a week! If we're in the car together I have a MELTDOWN if he looks at a woman on the street for "too long". If I see a skinny brunette on the street I will often find myself glarng at her, thinking that this woman might be "one of them". <P>When I had proof of only one affair, this man swore on HIS MOTHERS GRAVE (yes, she's gone) that there was only the one. Two months ago I found out about the others. Just as I was letting my guard down and thinking he might be telling the truth! I just wonder if there is no end. I suspect many more -- there were many, many unaccounted for nights when he came home well past bar-closing time. <P>Okay, so it's not really the number of "incidents" I'm stuck on. It's the honesty. I need to feel like I know what REALLY happened before I can let him come back. <P>How do you know when you've heard the truth? You don't. But then, how do you TRUST that you've heard the truth? How do you trust that you ever will? <P>No, we're not in therapy right now. I went for a short time right after and got NO good result. I then asked him to start looking for a therapist -- if he really wants this to work out -- and of course he hasn't made a single phone call to inquire. I can't back down on this one though. He needs to take some action on this to show me that he's willing to work too. <P>Sorry for the long post. Lap top is acting weird these days and I can't always type.<P>Peace to all,<P>Snow

Welcome SnowWhite,<BR> I don't have alot of time and plan to write more later. My H says he will never do it again as well, but I no longer want to hear "never". I never thought I would stay with a man who has done me like this! Actions speak louder than words. My H has told me some awful things. He has confided to me things that he didn't have to because I never would have found out. I believe that he has told me the most important things. But I also think that the details that 'I need to know' versus the details he 'thinks I need to know' are two different things. We have decided to work through as a couple each act of adultery. I want to know how he felt, what he was thinking and feeling. Even if it is very painful. I feel like reliving all that will help him identify his payoffs. He has lived a double life and I deserve to know about that side of him, the good, the bad, the ugly. It has taken alot for to help him understand why I need to discuss these things. But now he trusts me. He trusts that I know what I can handle and that I have our best interest at heart.<BR> Check out <A HREF="http://www.sexhelp.com." TARGET=_blank>www.sexhelp.com.</A> They did have a sex addict survey you could fill out and then they would give you a list of therapists in your area. I couldn't find that link just now as I looked but they had a 1-800 number you could call for a therapist. A good counselor is mandatory! I would also encourage you to begin attending church if you don't already. My H was saved after I discovered one affair and called him and he had to drive 10 hours to get to me. It took about a month for all the painful truths to be revealed. He committed adultery 14 times. 5 of them were woman that I knew. He has since led another man who was cheating on his wife to Christ. Their family is back together with 2 toddlers. I have also met 2 wonderful woman at church who are a support system for me. I live away from my family so I needed that very much.<BR> I see a change in my husband daily even though he is far away in another country right now. THere is no way I could go on from here without that. It is not easy, but as I look around me and see divorces all over the place, children being manipulated by fighting parents, I can't help but not want that for my children. And besides I'm not sure I wouldn't face similar situations were I to start over again. The pool of men I'd be dating would all be divorced, all carrying baggage from prior marriage. Stepkids.... And actually were I to divorce my husband I wouldn't even want to date. I have two children to raise and they are my priority.<BR> I'd like to share a letter my H sent this man he has helped out who was cheating on his wife:<P>Great to hear of your weekend. I'll tell you, go<BR>for it! Do the things in life you know instinctively<BR>to be Gods will. We all have that in us, God gives us<BR>the choice to pay heed to the urges to do the right<BR>things in life. We are naturally drawn to him, and<BR>we, in our rebellousness, push him away. He will let<BR>us, because he gives us free choice. Your email was<BR>uplifting. I hope my wife, myself and the kids can<BR>meet your family one day, united again, and walking<BR>with Christ. My family has made a huge turn-around<BR>since I took my wife by the hand, walked her down the<BR>aisle, and was saved. I wanted to show her that I was<BR>willing to do anything to change, and to save our<BR>marriage, and I have not regretted a minute of it in<BR>spite of the pain I have caused her. She already was<BR>saved, and I had been a long time ago, but I had given<BR>up on faith and had no hope. <BR> I commend you on your helping somebody know<BR>salvation. That is what it is all about. <BR>Reaching out to people, showing compassion, being<BR>non-judgemental and letting them know that God gives<BR>us each the opportunity to live a wonderful,<BR>fulfilling life. Take care and may God bless you and<BR>your family and may you all be reunited soon.

Dear Broken,<P>Yes, yes yes! Everything you say in paragraph one is me to the letter. " Never want to hear 'never' again", "want to know what he was feeling, thinking...".. Absolutely. And little by little he is filling me in, though I sense reluctantly. I've tried to make him understand how these details, though painful at first, will in the end allow ME to heal. It's like when he tells all, he's betraying them instead of me (the last woman, last February, knew he was married, knew it was a one-night-stand, didn't care -- where do these disgusting excuses for a human being come from?). <P>Anyhow, it's some sort of "reconcilliation" -- me with the events, him with his betrayal.<P>Bless you Broken, you have a lot of strength and integrity -- allowing yourself to trust when he's so far away for so long. I hope to get there someday (one day at a time!). <P>Yes, I've recently re-connected with Church (never disconnected from God). While we were living together he avoided the Church for much the same reasons your H. did. It was difficult for me to attend without the family -- felt very isolated. Somehow I fell into the right parish when I moved to my new place (God gives you what you need!) and feel very comfortable there. Two months ago, after dday #3 (his confessions), he expressed desire to re-connect with a larger community also.<P>Thank you too for the welcome. Very appreciated! And for the link. I'll go there tonight after work. Maybe he will too.<P>Peace,\<P>Snow

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cl:<BR><B><BR>Since you are being so open, let me ask you abt respect? I struggle with this but I realize that it is my interpretation of the definition of respect. How could h possibly have respect for me if he is screwing so many other women? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>CL,<P>Glad you are back.<P>Respect - whoa. A very important issue for sure. My answer to my wife if she asked me that right now (and so if I could step in your h shoes for a moment maybe he would react similarly - I don't know) - would be of course I respect her. But really, how can that be. Somebody doesn't do what I did - or your husband did - out of respect. But, and this is how we are probably able to separate the issues - is that when we are cheating - our S is not on our mind - and therefore we aren't thinking is this respectful to my S or not. Because clearly, if we were thinking about our S or about our love and respect for them - we wouldn't carry on with the action. I do love my wife - I do respect her, and I mean that on a very deep level. But my actions, when I am cheating on her (or should say when I was cheating) - don't bear that out. They are the very clear actions of disrepect - of a complete contempt for our S and our committment to them.<P>I have been doing a lot of searcing over this. One, because I want to understand so I can stop doing it in the even that my wife and I are able to stay together (divorce day is the 11th of May - if she goes to court on the first avail day) so that I can become that which I always thought I was and what I want to be. If we don't stay together - I will eventually start a new life, and what a shame it would be if I didn't learn from this and better myself, so I wouldn't bring the same pain on somebody else. Of course, I would much rather my W and I work things out. And finally, I have searched and researched infidelity to try and understand what my W did. I believe I am much more in touch with this than she is - she still has yet to admit any details to me, and continues to keep silent. I am afraid that maybe there is still some connection for her with OM - maybe not. As I have said before - I am a very long way from home and no way for me to know for sure. The only thing I can do is to try and engage her in converation about our situation - hope she comes around and sees that we are on a very sad road, and that if this board is any indication - we are not the only ones in this situation - in fact some are far worse off and others have come back from far worse. I've sent her the link - asked her to come here and read, but I don't know if she has or if she will.<P>This is getting long and off the question you asked. I hope I answered it. I do respect my wife - I believe that, but I certainly did not act in a way that is respectfuly - and I would guess maybe your H is the same - though I am not in his head and couldn't be for sure.<P>lth<p>[This message has been edited by lessthanhonorable (edited April 22, 2001).]

BUMP