I posted a couple days ago ("As if I need another worry") that my au pair was completely fed up with my wife and was considering leaving. She and I met with the au pair counselor last night (Friday) and she has decided to leave. She cannot continue being manipulated by my wife and put in a position of taking criticism from another "boss". She has no respect for my wife. She has accurately diagnosed her as being selfish and irresponsible. I can't blame her one bit. She feels very guilty about putting me in this predicament and will stick it out until the counselor and I make arrangements for a replacement. She is heartsick about leaving my son.<P>As we were meeting with the counselor, my wife called and spoke with my son. He apparently told her I was talking with <au pair> and <counselor>, whom he knows well (plays with her sons). My wife asked to speak to me and she asked if "we" had a problem with <au pair>.<P>Me: yea, there's a problem.<BR>Her: What is it?<BR>Me: I'd prefer to explain later when we have more time to discuss it.<BR>Her: Well, can you tell me if she wants to go home or does she want to go to another family?<BR>Me: The latter.<BR>Her: I guess I'm part of the problem.<BR>Me: Let's talk about it later<BR>Her: O.K., but tell her that I'll do anything to try to help her or make things better.<BR>Me: OK.<P>Today (Saturday), my wife came by to bring my son's baseball pants he needed for a game.<P>Her: Is <au pair> here?<BR>Me: No.<BR>Her: What's her problem?<BR>Me: (After a pause, looking her straight in the eye) You.<BR>Her: Well, I guess you've been perfect? There's a lot of things she hasn't been doing that she should. Just tell her I'll stay away and you make sure she does everything she's supposed to do!<P>Then she left without either of us saying another word. Notice the difference in her attitude from Friday to Saturday.<P>What a mess. <P>I offered to the au pair that she can still go with <son> and I to Florida next week (spring break) to visit my Dad and go to Universal Studios. She wants to go and <son> and I sincerely enjoy her company. Maybe she'll change her mind. Anyway, I think it'll be a good time for a Plan B letter as we leave. This will give me this week to communicate with my wife about taxes and other finances and be a perfect Plan A up to the last minute.<P>Reactions, suggestions, recommendations?<P>Dave

Dave,<P>Well, you seem to be running a day behind me , but I'd say you're on the right track. I just gave my W the Plan B letter this morning, so if you want to see what happens to me, I'll be glad to keep you posted.<P>But like I said before, I think the four of us (you, me, Rick, OOOO) have done the best Plan A we could, and the LB's are becoming more and more frequent. So, Plan B is probably the best solution for not erasing the good Plan A efforts.<P>AGG

Dave,<P>I have no experience with Plan B. I would like to say that you have been so good with your Plan A. You've done it far longer than most of us could have. You have done a fine job of raising your son on your own. It sounds as if this has been well thought out. Do you feel comfortable with your plan(as comfortable as you can be with somthing like this)? <P>Have a good vacation away from everything! <BR>Dont forget that Universal has something similar to Disney's "fast pass" so you dont have to wait in long lines for the attractions.<P>cleo

Hi Worth,<P>Not sure I have ever posted to you or not... but I think you might have the right idea by going to plan B. <P>Sorry about the au pair leaving. Have you told the au pair about trying to stay since you are not going to see your wife anyways? Also why not have the counselor explain to your wife what the au pair said? Your wife might get it if it comes from someone else other than you. Just a thought.<P>Sorry about being in this situation.

*sigh*<P>Dave, what is it about you, Rick and AGG that just gets to me? All three of you are in such a similar place, and my thoughts are with you.<P>Nothing much more constructive to add, I'm afraid. Or may be that's a good thing… you seem to be handling this well.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited March 31, 2001).]

Dave,<P>I haven't posted to you much, but I have been following your story. I think you have been tremendous in your efforts at Plan A and you sound like you may be reaching the end of your rope. I have not gone down this path, so I can't offer you advice based on my experience. However, I would probably want to talk to Steve or Jennifer just to be sure.<P>I wish you the best.<P>-HD

I just wanted to add that you have done an incredible Plan A. And I also wanted to add that if you wait too long to plan B....especially with the type of behavior exhibited by your wife.....(like Ricks wife and my H).... it won't be JUST that you will LB....You WILL lose any feelings YOU have for your wife. (Well, let's just say that it is highly likely)<P>I wish I had listened to S Harley and Plan B's earlier and stuck with it. I tried it once...then had to deal with the pregnancy. <P>At any rate, I am currently at the point of indifference. I wish them the best of luck, but truly just want to escape what I feel has been the most bizaar time of my life. I can't even say hurtful or sad...just bizaar.<P>So...I guess if you are at the crossroads of deciding to write the letter.... think about your own "love bank"...coz when it goes...it goes.....<P>Good luck and have a very deserved wonderful time in Florida with your son and hopefully your au pair....<P>

Dave,<P>I think at this point it is a personal choice as to which way to go....depends on what you are comfortable with. Not an easy decision.<P>Talking to Steve wouldn't hurt, but of course his most recent position was Plan A. I would definitely draft a Plan B letter, and you can think for a few days before making the decision. Doesn't hurt to have the letter on hand anyway.<P>I'm not feeling real qualified to give advice on this, because as you know, I'm a bit on the fence myself on what to do next. I'll be anxious to hear AGGs experience with his newly started Plan B.<P>You are doing really amazing at staring her in the eye and not LBing when things are just crazy. Keep that up.<P>I don't have much in the way of advice tonight. If anything else comes to my mind, I'll let you know.<BR>

Dave,<P>Sorry things aren't going well with the au pair. I do hope that she goes to FLA with you all. Your poor son, how does he feel about all this?<P>This week keep Plan Aing, your W will likely except for you to LB big time, thanks to her total selfish and irresponsible behavoir. Write your Plan B letter, talk to Steve & think before you act. That is you W's problem she just acts & all she is doing is hurting you, your son & herself. I wish she would wake up.<P>You are doing a great job. I don't know how you have kept your cool for so long. I think I would have all ready told her to take her broom &........<P>Okay I will be nice now. Do what is right for you & your son, okay?<BR><p>[This message has been edited by sing (edited April 01, 2001).]

Dave, I was just curious....did you have an au pair before you and your W separated?<P>It sounds to me as if your W is resentful about the au pair filling some of your W's shoes in your home and with your son.<P>You've done a wonderful job trying to save your marriage. Now it seems to me that it's time to save you and your son. Plan B seems in order - after you talk to Steve of course. <P>I have to say, Steve flat out told me that there was no hope for my marriage. So I know that Steve is willing to call it as he sees it. So if he's still saying Plan A to you, then there has got to be good reason. He obviously sees reason for you to still hang in there.<P>I wish you luck.<P>--BR

Update - tell me if I'm unreasonable? I know I LB'd some. I know this is long, but please read it to get the complete picture. Thanks for all the responses so far.<P>My wife had my son last night - when she picked him up, she called from her cell a few minutes away and asked him to be ready by the door. This allowed her to stay in her car and, presumably, away from the au pair, although she wasn't home. So, my wife and I did not speak.<P>This morning (Sunday), I called her to make arrangements for my son's baseball practice. Not knowing how she would react to me calling, as soon as she answered, I made it light by jokingly asking if she remembered to change her clocks. She answered, (laughing a bit) "No, as a matter of fact, I forgot and we missed the early Mass." (Yea, she's a hypocrite) We then had a very civil conversation in which we made plans for <son> to get to practice, although a little late. She would bring him after church and meet me there. She also said she needs to pick him up early because "we have something to do at church at 2:00."<P>She called me at practice about a half hour late, apologizing that they just got out of church. She suggested that since she'd have to pick him up for the 2:00 "meeting" in less than an hour, that he should just skip practice. I was a bit miffed, but agreed based on the practical aspects.<P>Her: But I need to stop by home to get his lunch box for tomorrow.<BR>Me: OK, when? (and why does she call it "home"? Usually it's "the house" or "your house.") <BR>Her: Maybe after the church function.<BR>Me: What exactly is this function?<BR>Her: It's just a church function that <son> is going to with me.<BR>Me: I understand, but what is he going to be doing?<BR>(Keep in mind that she started going to a Catholic Church about the same time that the A started - because OM and family go to this church. She has been taking my son there ever since and has him enrolled in CCD or whatever it is.)<BR>Her: (Getting riled) He's just going with me to listen.<BR>Me: I'd like to know what he's going to be exposed to.<BR>Her: Dave, this is a Church function - there's nothing that can harm him.<BR>Me: OK, then why can't you tell me what it is? What are you hiding?<BR>Her: I'm not hiding anything - it's none of your business.<BR>Me: Everything my son does and everywhere he goes is my business.<BR>Her: This is my private time with <son>. I haven't asked you what he's going to be doing in Florida next week!<BR>Me: You know what we're going to be doing. You can ask me anything about my activities with him.<BR>Her: It's just a meeting about me joining a church-related sports team.<BR>Me: Is that all? Why were you so reluctant to say so?<BR>Her: because I don't want you prying into my life.<BR>Me: I was only interested in what <son> was going to be doing. Why don't you bring him by the house while you're there?<BR>Her: Because this is my time with him. I resent your questions because I get the impression that you think I would expose him to something harmful. I'm a good mother. He's the only priority in my life and I will do nothing that can possibly hurt him. If you think I would then you're sick!<BR>Me: (really holding back as much as I could) You've already hurt him.<P>End of conversation.<P>When I got home I called her and apologized for making her mad, stating I was sincerely only interested in what <son> was going to be doing. She was still mad and told me to leave her alone and "I'm not the terrible mother you think I am." (Paranoid?) I reiterated that I'm not trying to pry into her life and that we have to cooperate with his care. She said she didn't want to talk about it any more right now, and we ended the conversation.<P>I know I LB'd - another clue to go to Plan B, but I don't think I was asking too much. She obviously thinks she's being a good mother, and at least I avoided going into specifics about how she's already harmed our son - not to mention OM's kids - whom she loved dearly but who now despise her - and OM's wife, who was her best friend.<P>Reactions?<P>BR - no, we had two au pairs previously - started this when our younger son relapsed and went into his second BMT. We separated half way through the second one's term. I don't think this has anything to do with the au pair performing some of her functions.<P>sing - I haven't told <son> yet about the au pair leaving - mostly because there's a possibility she'll change her mind.<P>Pahakissa1 - (quote) "Have you told the au pair about trying to stay since you are not going to see your wife anyways? Also why not have the counselor explain to your wife what the au pair said?" No, I haven't discussed with the au pair what would be expected in Plan B - but I intend to soon. As far as the counselor talking to my wife - I've thought of this since they know each other pretty good, but I don't want to legitimize my wife's involvement with the au pair decisions because I maintain that she has no say in this matter. On the other hand, I know I'm sounding a bit hypocritical myself about wanting to know everything my son is exposed to, but saying my wife has no rights in the au pair business. I try to separate the business aspects from the child care aspects. I think I will approach the counselor about communicating directly with my wife, if she's willing.<P>I'm thinking about delaying the Plan B for about two weeks. The reason for this is that after we get back from Florida, my son is going to England on a school trip for a week and the preps for that will involve both my wife and I and I think his departure would be an opportune time for my departure as well.<P>Dave

Dave,<P>Best advice I can pass along to you is if you institute Plan B, stick to it. My first attempt at Plan B lasted all of about eight hours. I foolishly believed my wife's claim that "no contact" would be impossible because it would be detrimental to the kids. The real truth is that it would have been detrimental to her relationship with the OP. Now with the cat out of the bag, so to speak, a second attempt at Plan B loses some of the sting.<P>Stick to your guns. It sounds like what you have done so far has worked to some degree because it appears that you are the one calling the shots. Let us all know how it turns out...

Dave...<P>I assume you are a baptized Christian...<BR>...if so...<BR>...is your W aware that to participate in the Catholic faith's sacraments she will need a Catholic annulment (usually 6-24 month process... and only after civil divorce is complete).<P>Is she willing to forego that "full" participation in her <B>new church</B>... while she pushes your/her son into the Catholic faith?<P>OM will have to wait too (no remarriage)... until the annulment is complete. Is/Has the OM been married before?<BR>If so... there is another annulment that may have to be worked on!<P>Tell me this won't confuse your son... <P>Jim

Yes, I like what NSR said. Not only will she need an annulment from you, but if OM is a previously married Catholic, not only does he need to get an annulment (only granted if one proves that one was incapable of committing to marriage) BUT remarriage is not necessarily OK even after the annulment.<P>If one is granted an annulment, to remarry in the Catholic church, one has to prove that the impediment to the first marriage is no longer existant....(ok so I don't know how many Catholic priests actually CHECK this, but technically thats the rule).<P>Being Catholic ain't no easy thing!!! I betcha this will cause more than a few wrenches in the works with your W.<P>

Dave,<P>I'll give you my reaction in a second. Also, I want in on the church thread that has erupted here. It strikes a chord in me. My wife apparently started going to a Catholic church...no surprise OM is Catholic. You'd have to know her to realize how shocking this is. First, she isn't terribly religious, but isn't Catholic, and a former boyfriend tried to get her into it and she flatly refused...so she had a bit of a bad taste. Now, considering that OM is an adulterer now, having this relationship with a married woman, sneaking around so his parents won't find out, how can either one of them walk into the church????? It blows my mind.<P>OK, sorry Dave. Reaction time.<P>I would have done exactly what you did. I don't think it is a huge LB, but of course LBs are in the eye of the beholder, where the beholder is your wife in this case. But something like that involving religion is a touchy situation. What if you wanted to start your son into some religion and your wife wanted another one....how confusing for your son. So, I'd want to know what it was about as well. Sounds like you handled it fine, even though it annoyed your wife. Why would your son have to be at a meeting for your wife to join a church related sports team? Sorry, again, how do these women having affairs suddenly get religious WHILE having the affair??????? It is incredible what is going through their minds.<P>I don't think you are unreasonable. You just want to know what your son is into, and to me that is fine. You are just dealing with the alien mind, so you end up wondering if you are reasonable because of their alien reaction.<P>Hopefully your wife somehow realizes the impact she has had on the au pair. I hope the counsellor talks to her. You gotta wonder if her reference to "the terrible mother you think I am" smells of some guilt. Maybe/maybe not.

I'd like to tell her(so you wouldn't have to LB) that going to church doesn't make her any more of a Christian than sleeping in her garage makes her a Chevy.

Dave,<P>I haven't been able to read most of the posts on this thread for some weird reason but anyway if you need a LB fairy I can fly your way & let your W have it. <P>Hey I will volunteer my services to be the LB fairy fulltime. Need to LB but don't want to be the bad guy call sing & she will LB away for you. <BR> :<P>After I wrote this I got to read the other posts. <P>NOw do I get this right your W kept your son from baseball pratice because it was her time with your son so she takes him to a church meeting for HER an athelic team meeting. Why couldn't he gone to pratice then she get him at your home when they came for the lunch box? Sounds as if your wife is scared that you are going to use she is not a good mother on her in a custody fight.<P>Think you are right in not putting Plan B in the works till your son goes to England this way if there are fireworks they will be over by the time he returns.<P>Talk to Steve. Good luck<p>[This message has been edited by sing (edited April 01, 2001).]

Thanks for the replies.<P>Jim - yes OM and family are Catholic - this is why my wife started going to their church - she was brought up in the Methodist church. I have no clue whether they plan on getting married, so the anulment issue may be moot. Since they've been completely hypocritical so far, I'd expect them to continue their church activities in the future.<P>Rick - I spoke with the au pair counselor yesterday and we agreed that it would be inappropriate for her to initiate any contact with my wife - like me, she doesn't want to legitimize my wife's view that she has some say in the matter. She will, however, talk to her if my wife initiates contact - but to a limited degree. Most of her answers would be, "that's between Dave, the au pair, and the agency." I agree her statement abour not being a terrible mother is a defense against guilt. On several occasions she's just blurted out "I'm not a bad person!" Clearly trying to talk herself into it.<P>mthrrhbard - love the chevy analogy! What hypocrits. OM has actually referred to me as an athiest simply because I am not a formal member of any church. Who do you think has better Christian values?<P>sing - the LB fairy reminds me of an idea I have not developed - an anonymous e-mail service that sends messages to infidels telling them what we think about their behavior. Tempting. I think a lot of what she does is ultimately aimed at a custody fight. We agreed to 50/50 in the separation agreement, but all bets are off in the divorce process.<P>Dave

WAT -<P>It might be prudent for you to keep talking to NSR about annulments in the Catholic Church, and what your wife's plans are at this time. You don't just decide to "become Catholic," as an adult, your wife would have to basically go through a series of courses, RCIA. And, your son being enrolled in CCD? I don't know how that works, but it seems to me that both parents would have to consent to that, or one would have to be a "participating" Catholic - but I'm not sure about that. At minimum, he would have to be a registered parishoner in order to enroll in CCD.<P>And as far as "participating" in the Catholic sacraments - your wife can only do that - as NSR mentioned - if she converts to Catholicism. She can still be married to you and "become Catholic," but I don't see - really - how she can participate "fully" in church activities now. I mean, anyone is welcome to attend mass, but unless you're Catholic, you cannot receive the Holy Eucharist, and most parishes are kind of strict when it comes to participation in other outside activities. Anyway, just some thoughts. If your son is enrolled in Catholic Education (CCD) - I would think at his age - 12, right? - that choosing a religion should be left to him - in collaboration with you and your wife, of course.<P>It's a very confusing situation. Most priests are very receptive to talking to people who are interested in the Catholic faith - maybe you could talk to one - just to get a run-down on what the requirements are, not so much for you, but so that you have an idea of what to expect. Just a thought. There's also books about the Catholic faith at bookstores - they may help - if you don't feel comfortable talking to a priest.