I was wondering how many WS would tell their BS bad things about the OP. The reason I ask is that H tells me some not so nice things about OW. For example, H says OW is "stupid;" that she is conceited and that her favorite past time is looking at herself in the mirror and combing her hair; and, that she is an unfit mother, etc. H has even given specific details to support that OW is an unfit mother. However, I will not go into the details right now.<P>I thought that when the WS is in the "fog" that they are so "in love" that they are unable to see the OP for what they really are. I know that H lies about the A. However, it seems as if these thoughts must have at least occurred to him in order for him to say such things. Can anyone explain this to me?<P>dolphin

Sounds like the fog is lifting...I am the BS. He didn't say BAD things about her when he first came home...because he was in contact with her,by phone and online, for another 3 months. BUT,and this is confusing to me, the first thing in the morning, the day after he came home, he called the AIDS hotline to see how soon he could be tested. Because she had told him that she wasn't sure about her H (who loves her,it turns out) and that she had had another A,prior to my H. He said she was going to leave her kids, for him and he couldn't understand how she could do that. But that she was such a gentle,kind,wonderful person. That he could never trust her, as a person who had As. But that she was me without the history. I NEVER had an affair...how could she be me? IT WAS THE FOG...Once he saw her clearly, she was still trying get back the PA,he told her he was ending her but she was still trying, I think and he saw her for the pathetic,needy thing she is. Her H doesn't know about her As.<BR>I think, our Hs have to see the OW as a "good" person for a time because,if yours is like mine, there are self-esteem isuues and how can you let your ego be built up by someone who's unworhty...a scumbag...Once they realize they have been lying to themselves, they are ashamed.<p>[This message has been edited by Wounded2673 (edited April 01, 2001).]

Wounded2673,<P>Thank you for responding. OW did build H's self-esteem. I hope that you are right and that the fog may be lifting. However, H continues to have contact with OW (as recently as Friday that I know about). However, last Monday, H supposedly told OW that he did not want to have anymore contact with her. I just don't understand because H has been saying these things about OW for quite sometime now. I can't remember the first time that H said anything negative about OW. I do know that it was awhile after H initially admitted to A.<P>dolphin

You know, thinking back, he told me a lot of stuff that he thought I wanted to hear. Much of it was the "truth" in his muddled head. But he wouldn't out and out lie about her. I said about a month after he came home if he was ashamed of her and he said No he would never be. But guess what,he is now. I wonder if his negative comments are suff he thinks you want to hear? And, it DOES get better...if they are really sorry but it can't until no contact.<BR>Praying for you...

Hi,<P> Coming out of the "FOG", stage 2!<P>------------------<BR>Deb

Do you suppose they ever come out of the fog....with contact...or do you think it just has to hit the famous 2-3 year mark....when infatuation dies down before some of them wake up??<P>I ask, because I can't THINK of a relationship that has been more filled with turmoil....and conflicts than H's and OP's...including the scandalous pregnancy and birth of a son...for these two 40'ish married with children very visible professional coworkers!!!! in a small town!!!! and the fog is not lifting for either of them.<P>Not that it matters at this point, because after 15 months of a plan A that included nary a word about the blatant affair, pregnancy and baby...H is still secretive, blaming etc towards me...and I've filed...time to pull the rip cord I guess.<P>I really have let go...and am doing fine...but would love to believe that this person who I believed in so much, loved so much, would feel some empathy at some time towards those people he dismissed....(me, the three kids...and even his mom...who has been put in a very awful position...)....<P>I always wonder about Lostva's brother who was a WS who woke up in 3 years and called his ex to apologize. LostVa said that his ex responded to the affair as you would expect, badly...and there was lots of animosity.<P>But I still wonder, if my H were to ever wake up would he be able to see REALITY...because to this day....15 months of this....despite my being really nice and accomodating to him....he will still ask his mom "How"s W"... and say I'm not talking to him, and that I am angry all the time. <P>I just wonder if that is his permanent reality....

My guess would be that he's saying this things because he thinks they are things you "want" to hear. It's his way of still being able to stay in contact with her and keeping you too. Being a WS, I never said anything negative about the OP. If I thought he was this awful man I certainly would not have been seeing him.

BonnieSept, How long have you been in recovery? Do you still keep in contact with the OM? Was it an EA or a PA or both?<P>My H didn't say anyhting negative while he was still in the fog but once he realized this "wonderful" person was still trying to continue the PA, after he told her,in no uncertain terms, that we were working on our M, well, he was kinda grossed out and saw that she was very aggressive sexually and had been all along. He was fooled into thinking she was so wonderful, it being an EA first,online,where you can be anything you want. The face to face stuff wasn't enough for him to see her right away. But there were little things that bothered him, right away. She got him hot,over the net. He was tempted, over the net.Face to face she wasn't so hot but it was too late because by that time they were"soulmates"..ugh!<BR> Maybe your OM is a decent person but that is not always, I'll go out on a limb here and say it appears to seldom be the case.

Woounded-<BR>Probably the problem here is there are many kinds of people and many kinds of OP. It is easy to try to genrealize, but it doesn't work. You have to deal with your WS, and to some degree the OW. I am a WS. I had an EA, we're a year into recovery. The OM is the same kind of lonely, weak human I am. I would, on a good day, say I (and the OM) am a decent person, who made a nearly unforgivable, terrible mistake. And maybe it makes no sense to argue, but I'd bet there are a lot of BSs out there who whose WS was also an OP, and would also say they are basically decent people. Just MHO.<P>To answer your original question, no I didn't and wouldn't say bad things about the OP. The reason why the A happened to a large degree, is that the OM was a person I liked, admired and got way too involved with. I am as disgusted with his behavior as I am with mine. But I can't blame this any more on him than me. My H wished I could hate OM. I don't. If I said bad things about the OP, most of them I have to say about me, too.

My OW did and said things I find absolutely appalling in hindsight. Quite a few of them were pretty bad at the time as well, but the fog was thick... just like my skull was. So yes... they can look back at the things done and said by the OP and be repulsed by them. It just doesn’t seem to make much of a difference while embroiled in the affair, as well as the aftermath during withdrawal.<P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited April 03, 2001).]