The Discovery Channel should do a documentary on my wife. You know, one of those shows that show and tell about unbelievable creatures?<P>Last night she called after <son> was in bed. We had a really nice conversation about the school function she went to and the lacrosse game and baseball practice that <son> and I went to. He played goalie for awhile in the lacrosse game and blocked one shot with his helmet. We laughed together about it. I asked and she agreed to take the dogs next week (she had volunteered earlier) when we go to Florida and we made plans for <son's> time to be with her before we leave early Sunday morning. The conversation was going real well so I decided to pop the question (see my post, "Things....):<P>Me: Will you speak to Steve?<BR>Her: No.<BR>Me: (after a pause) OK, why not?<BR>Her: I have nothing to say to that man.<BR>Me: Will you do it as a favor for me?<BR>Her: No, not after the other conversation I had with him. I'm not going to waste another hour talking to him.<BR>Me: What was the problem?<BR>Her: It was supposed to be about you and all he wanted to talk about was me. I felt like I had been deceived. If I knew it was really going to be about you and not me - if I knew I wouldn't be deceived again, then I'd do it. But I don't trust him, so the answer is no.<BR>Me: OK, so you don't like to be deceived?<BR>Her: Don't go there!<BR>Me: I'm just trying to understand. You realize that's being hypocritical?<BR>Her: Yes, I'm a hypocrite. This conversation is going nowhere.<BR>Me: OK, goodbye.<P>How can a person be so stubborn, so, whatever? It boggles my mind. After all the things I've done for her, she can't spend one hour on me as a favor because she felt "deceived" the last time. DECEIVED! <P>There is nothing to be gained in trying to reason with such a screwed up mind. I am so tempted to just get in a tit for tat competition with her. OK, you won't spend one hour for me? Don't be late the next time you pick up <son>! Don't expect me to cut you any slack on anything!<P>But I know that will be counter productive. I'm going to continue to Plan A her butt like this didn't happen. I'm going to be so sweet and wonderful that she will have to recognize her selfishness. Maybe I'm a fool. Maybe I'm in the fog. But I will not lower myself to her standards of indecency. I am high on the moral high ground and she will not drag me down.<P>Dave (WAT)

Dave<P><<I am high on the moral high ground and she will not drag me down.>><P><BR>Now you stay on that high ground & let her wallow in the mud. <P>Have a good trip.<BR>

I had a session with Steve a while back when I was having a hard time with somethings. I aksed H to talk to him to help me with this problem. He said "I'm not doing counseling anymore. It doesn't work" So, I said its just to help me. He agreed to a FIVE minute conversation and then the day before, he cancelled his appt. It's a tough pill to swallow. It feels like a rejection of sorts. <P>My philosophy is that if I have to do this by myself, then so be it. I'll continue to do what I think is right and hope that he soon catches on. Did I mention pray like there's no tomorrow? I think this one is out of my hands.<BR>ooops! got a little long winded on your thread. Sorry, WAT.<P>take care,<BR>cleo

sing, cleo - thanks for validating me. I need you ladies to keep me strong. In an invisible way, you represent women who appreciate a man trying to save his wife. I am determined to save her.<P>Dave

WAT-I'm getting teary eyed. .If you aren't going to be there for her, who is?? Keep fighting, although it doesn't seem it, she NEEDS you-she just doesn't know it yet. She's searching, keep your light shining to her.<P>Did you read my "he's been kidnapped" analogy? Think like this:<P>Someone has kidnapped your W, she is calling you & calling you to help her. . you can hear her. . she's calling YOUR name. . you're running & running to where you think she is. . you start to get close. . they move her to a different spot. . she's still calling for you-keep on running WAT, keep on searching until you find her & kill those kidnappers that have her right now.<P>

Dave,<P>I am going to be catty, I typed it last night & deleted it but I as sorry I can't resist.<P>YOU MEAN YOUR W ACTUALLY HAS A BRAIN! <P>Sorry I couldn't help my self. Sing now slinking away in embarrassment, back to trying to finish the stupid Cub Scout regatta boat for tomorrow I hope it doesn't sink<BR>

Dave,<BR>I tried for the longest time to get my wife to talk to Steve. I thought that one time I almost had her there, hen she backed out. Her take on it is that anyone who does phone counciling is a quack and is just trying to scam you.<P>To her the face to face thing is important. So I gave up trying. I am at my wits end with my wife. Respect is gone. Dave, I admire you for your perseverance and stamina. I don't know how you have done it. Hang in there buddy, we are all pulling for you!<P>Mike

amazing and damn confusing!<P>Isn't it ironic how they can pretend like their perfect, have done no wrong, when they're doing exactly what they are accusing someone else of?? Of course she doesn't want to talk to Steve---he knows what she's trying to pull, and she's probably scared he'll call her on it. I've tried and tried to get my H to go to counseling to no avail. It's a waste of time and money he says. We can buy a $2000 TV, but can't spend a few hundred dollars on counseling to try to improve our marriage? I guess it's all in your priorities. Sony obviously has a bigger hold on my H than I do.<P>Kind of like my H punishing our daughter for lying. I guess she learned from the best...<P>Keep being your sweet and wonderful self. If she doesn't notice, you will be a better person for it anyway. Then at least you will know that you did everything in your power to save your marriage.<P>Take care, and have a great time in Florida next week with your son.

Thanks for the replies -<P>bitsy - I keep telling her that I'm here for her. A few months ago I mentioned directly that someday, she may need me - she just laughed. She's carrying around an incredible amount of emotional debt - both from our deceased son and her affair. Her guilt has to catch up to her sooner or later. She cannot continue suppressing forever.<P>sing - keep the sarcastic comments coming. If we all weren't so crazy, we'd all go insane. As a matter of fact, she is a very intelligent, accomplished career woman and is quite the perfectionist. Without brain worms, she has a very logical mind. Perhaps this dichotomy contributes to her reluctance to face the truth.<P>mbtrk - perhaps my stamina is due to our special circumstances (loss of our son) and its effect on the affair; or, I'm a fool.<P>hurtinginil - This is the frustrating part. The hypocrisy is blatant - and acknowledged! A few months ago, when gossip about her was going thru the local medical community, she exclaimed, "I can't stand all these lies!" This drip, drip, drip of evidence tells me she's still suppressing the reality of her past bahavior and has yet to face herself in the mirror. As long as this is happening, I think she can still be saved.<P>Update: Thursday evening, <son> had a baseball game. About a half hour before the game, I called her to remind her of the location. My strategy was to perform a thoughtful deed on the heels of our previous conversation when she slam dunked talking to Steve. I think she was surprised and she thanked me. At the game, she hung around the dugout (I'm the dugout coach) and we had normal conversations about the game and <son's> play. When she left, she let me kiss her on the cheek - this only occurs when she's not mad about something, so I think my scheme worked.<P>Dave<p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited April 06, 2001).]

Dave,<P>You are a prince, one of these days your wife will remember that also.<P>glad you didn't mind my sinking into cattiness (is that a word).<P>again have a good trip, enjoy, relax